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Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Cincinnati, Ohio

Nothing in the codex to my knowledge has Skyfire, so is Devastator spam one of the ways to take out flyers. Storm Talons are there too (obviously), but would things w/ TL ACs (both varieties) be good like LRC & R as well as rifledreads?

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Silver Spring, MD

How open is your group to using Forgeworld? Their Air Defense Launchers are devastating.

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If your group does allow 40k approved stuff or even all FW stuff then grab amortis-contemptor and give him 2 kheres pattern assault cannons, he is disgustingly brutal

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FOW Player




Frisco, TX

Storm Talons are solid for anti-air thanks to their turret mount. Allied flyers are an option, Ravens and Vendettas in particular. Massed and/or twin-linked shooting is always a good call, especially Multi-Melta Attack Bikes with Vulkan's combat tactics.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 15:03:07


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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

There are a number of ways to deal with flyers.

Ignore them
Skyfire
Dogfighting
Massed ground fire


Ignoring them is an option. Concentrate on the part of their army that is on the table. Focus on objectives and victory conditions. Flyers are hard to hit and cause damage, but have limited maneuverability and can't hold objectives. Your opponent has sunk a number of points into them, so you should have him out gunned on the ground. Press your advantage.

Skyfire. If your group allows FW, there are options there. If not, fortifications or allies can get you some. Just because it's not in the codex does no mean the option is not there. Something as simple as a ADL with a quadgun can help a lot.

Dogfighting is pretty self explanatory. Take a stormtalon and shoot it out. Not a terrible option.

Massed ground fire is not the best option, but is really easy to get. As a plus, you don't need to dedicate points towards it, just the same firepower you use to pop transports. What you need is massed fire though, as you need 6s to hit. So one guy with a ML is not going to cut it. This is why rifleman dreads are often called out for this job. You get 4 shots, twin-linked, so should generate a hit. Flyers mostly have light armor and few hull points, so it doesn't take much to knock them down once you get the hits. If you are going with this strategy, try to maximize the number of guns you can shoot. Take auto/las preds rather then vindicators, or lascannons rather then plasma cannons. Twin linking is also your friend.

While you could use devastators, I think the best massed fire options are dreads and preds.

   
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





North idaho/ Washington

GW is supposed to be releasing a new book soon along with some new flyers that will give SM a better option for AA, it will give an updated rules to the Stormtalon.

Belive it is released in march

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 ace101 wrote:
Nothing in the codex to my knowledge has Skyfire, so is Devastator spam one of the ways to take out flyers. Storm Talons are there too (obviously), but would things w/ TL ACs (both varieties) be good like LRC & R as well as rifledreads?


C:SM has some great options for AA.

After the Eratta any Tac Squad with a missile launcher can now fire Flak missiles. As well, all flyers can choose to have Skyfire on a given turn (see pg 61 Core Rulebook).

Assault Cannons are also fairly decent AA options by virtue of their shot volume.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Umm where are you seeing codex space marines can fire claim missiles? The only tacticals that have it ATM are DA tacticals.

I use a combination of ignorance and twin linked melta/multi melta to down flyers. But if the rumors about C:SM getting the storm raven are true I'm probably gonna find a way to get one into my list.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

En Excelsis wrote:


After the Eratta any Tac Squad with a missile launcher can now fire Flak missiles.


This is 100% inaccurate.

The space marine FAQ is here.

No flakk missiles...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/05 18:40:50


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Sneaky Striking Scorpion





You are correct. My apologies. I was looking in the completely wrong place.

I've been pouring over my DA codex for long enough now that I've grown accustomed to their Tactical Squad loadouts. But, for every up, there is a down

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/05 19:43:36


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

DA tacticals are certainly nice like that.

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Osprey Reader





Northern California

If I am playing vanilla marines in the current format, I'd go with Imperial Guard allies. Commissar Lord, grenadier melta-veterans, and a squadron of vendetta's. To afford that just take out some of your ranged heavies from your marines and mitigate their role to the vendetta's. Its 360/490/620 poitns for how I run them depending on how many Vendetta's you want and the scale of your game. There are multiple reasons why this is a viable tactic but what sold me on it was the fact that it was one of the only anti air options that actually added a scoring unit. Then again, you could just take Dark Angels allies in the form of a librarian, 5-man tactical squad and 10 devastators. Upgrade the tac and dev's to have some missile launchers with flakk and your good to go. That build would run you about 440 poitns or so. On the cheap you could do the libby and two 5-man tacs with missile launchers for 290. This would give you 2 scoring units but only 2 AA shots.
   
Made in us
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 kronk wrote:
DA tacticals are certainly nice like that.


Yes, the DA Tacticals are pretty great, probably I should think because players will more likely be taking Belial and attempting to run Termis as troops in their stead.

One thing I did notice that kind of irked me, though it is sort of a mild complaint:

Dark Angels Command Squad Company Veteran cannot equip a Relic Blade, and is instead forced to use a Blade of Caliban... possibly the worst weapon in their codex IMO. Almost makes him not worth taking. See GE Errata for the stat line on the Relic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 guinness707 wrote:
If I am playing vanilla marines in the current format, I'd go with Imperial Guard allies. Commissar Lord, grenadier melta-veterans, and a squadron of vendetta's. To afford that just take out some of your ranged heavies from your marines and mitigate their role to the vendetta's. Its 360/490/620 poitns for how I run them depending on how many Vendetta's you want and the scale of your game. There are multiple reasons why this is a viable tactic but what sold me on it was the fact that it was one of the only anti air options that actually added a scoring unit. Then again, you could just take Dark Angels allies in the form of a librarian, 5-man tactical squad and 10 devastators. Upgrade the tac and dev's to have some missile launchers with flakk and your good to go. That build would run you about 440 poitns or so. On the cheap you could do the libby and two 5-man tacs with missile launchers for 290. This would give you 2 scoring units but only 2 AA shots.


While there is definitely some tactical merit to taking allies as you stated... I wonder if the majority of players (that being the more "casual" players) are interested. Allies are a point risk as they remove some of the synergy that exists within a single codex and how their HQs may interact.

Perhaps I am being a jerk but I personally dislike the new ally rules as they can lead to abuse.

Ex: I play mostly with a group of about 7 local gamers, all of whom have a history with one another, and we all get along. I won't say we all see eye-to-eye on everything because that's just untrue, and we differ greatly in our view of the fluff... anyway, at one point there were 4 of us just finishing up a set of 1 on 1 games at the local gaming store when two new faces walked in with cases full of minis.

We made nice, introduced ourselves and had a few minutes of the awkward AA "my name is Joe" nonsense, after which they offered to play a match. They proceeded to pull out two allies forces. One was playing Grey Knights allied with Dark Eldar, the other was Playing Eldar allied with Dark Eldar.

I personally find the notion of Eldar & Dark Eldar offensive based on my own interpretations of the fluff, and the GK/DE combo just screamed, "I want to win, any fun at all be damned".

We politely excused ourselves and obviously did not want to play.

Was I being rude? maybe.
Was it uncalled for? I don't think so
Would I do it again? Yes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 20:08:49


 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





En Excelsis wrote:
 kronk wrote:
DA tacticals are certainly nice like that.


Yes, the DA Tacticals are pretty great, probably I should think because players will more likely be taking Belial and attempting to run Termis as troops in their stead.

One thing I did notice that kind of irked me, though it is sort of a mild complaint:

Dark Angels Command Squad Company Veteran cannot equip a Relic Blade, and is instead forced to use a Blade of Caliban... possibly the worst weapon in their codex IMO. Almost makes him not worth taking. See GE Errata for the stat line on the Relic.


Thats why you don't you give him a Mace of Redemption and laugh as he runs through the fields bopping people.

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Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Cincinnati, Ohio

 kronk wrote:
En Excelsis wrote:


After the Eratta any Tac Squad with a missile launcher can now fire Flak missiles.


This is 100% inaccurate.

The space marine FAQ is here.

No flakk missiles...
Noticed that a while ago, and im confused as to why DA and CSM get them and not C:SM. I don't know as of yet to whether the players in my area allow forge world, and if i wanted to i'd take a Storm Eagle/Mortis AC dreadnaught. I don't have the money or points at hand to buys me some IG or B/DA, so i'm probably going to wait till Death from Above comes out and see if the Storm Talon gets buffed slightly. If that doesnt happen i'll see about getting a Stormraven.

I took a look at both the Storm Talon and Eagle, and I like the increased durability and transport capacity in the Eagle compared to the Talon. I don't know the new stats for the Raven, but the Storm Eagle is AV12 with 4 hull points and assault vehicle that can carry 10 terminators. In comparison to the raven i dont know.

Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)
 
   
Made in us
Osprey Reader





Northern California

En Excelsis wrote:
 kronk wrote:
DA tacticals are certainly nice like that.


Yes, the DA Tacticals are pretty great, probably I should think because players will more likely be taking Belial and attempting to run Termis as troops in their stead.

One thing I did notice that kind of irked me, though it is sort of a mild complaint:

Dark Angels Command Squad Company Veteran cannot equip a Relic Blade, and is instead forced to use a Blade of Caliban... possibly the worst weapon in their codex IMO. Almost makes him not worth taking. See GE Errata for the stat line on the Relic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 guinness707 wrote:
If I am playing vanilla marines in the current format, I'd go with Imperial Guard allies. Commissar Lord, grenadier melta-veterans, and a squadron of vendetta's. To afford that just take out some of your ranged heavies from your marines and mitigate their role to the vendetta's. Its 360/490/620 poitns for how I run them depending on how many Vendetta's you want and the scale of your game. There are multiple reasons why this is a viable tactic but what sold me on it was the fact that it was one of the only anti air options that actually added a scoring unit. Then again, you could just take Dark Angels allies in the form of a librarian, 5-man tactical squad and 10 devastators. Upgrade the tac and dev's to have some missile launchers with flakk and your good to go. That build would run you about 440 poitns or so. On the cheap you could do the libby and two 5-man tacs with missile launchers for 290. This would give you 2 scoring units but only 2 AA shots.


While there is definitely some tactical merit to taking allies as you stated... I wonder if the majority of players (that being the more "casual" players) are interested. Allies are a point risk as they remove some of the synergy that exists within a single codex and how their HQs may interact.

Perhaps I am being a jerk but I personally dislike the new ally rules as they can lead to abuse.

Ex: I play mostly with a group of about 7 local gamers, all of whom have a history with one another, and we all get along. I won't say we all see eye-to-eye on everything because that's just untrue, and we differ greatly in our view of the fluff... anyway, at one point there were 4 of us just finishing up a set of 1 on 1 games at the local gaming store when two new faces walked in with cases full of minis.

We made nice, introduced ourselves and had a few minutes of the awkward AA "my name is Joe" nonsense, after which they offered to play a match. They proceeded to pull out two allies forces. One was playing Grey Knights allied with Dark Eldar, the other was Playing Eldar allied with Dark Eldar.

I personally find the notion of Eldar & Dark Eldar offensive based on my own interpretations of the fluff, and the GK/DE combo just screamed, "I want to win, any fun at all be damned".

We politely excused ourselves and obviously did not want to play.

Was I being rude? maybe.
Was it uncalled for? I don't think so
Would I do it again? Yes


Could not agree with you more on the allies bit. I do in fact hate it. I also hate losing badly in organized play too though so I'm forced to sell out my morals. It also helped that I was already running a 3 vendetta imperial guard list back in 5th. I especially want to spit at Dark Eldar / Eldar players but I hate poncey eldar so that doesnt really mean much

My end advice to the OP which addresses all poitns of concern is to simply run your C:SM chapter as a Dark Angels successor until you get a new dex. No allies, no fuss. Dark Angels are cool anyway.

Oh, and yeah, the Blade of Failiban is pretty much the worst thing i've ever seen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/05 21:14:54


 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Cincinnati, Ohio

 guinness707 wrote:
En Excelsis wrote:
 kronk wrote:
DA tacticals are certainly nice like that.


Yes, the DA Tacticals are pretty great, probably I should think because players will more likely be taking Belial and attempting to run Termis as troops in their stead.

One thing I did notice that kind of irked me, though it is sort of a mild complaint:

Dark Angels Command Squad Company Veteran cannot equip a Relic Blade, and is instead forced to use a Blade of Caliban... possibly the worst weapon in their codex IMO. Almost makes him not worth taking. See GE Errata for the stat line on the Relic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 guinness707 wrote:
If I am playing vanilla marines in the current format, I'd go with Imperial Guard allies. Commissar Lord, grenadier melta-veterans, and a squadron of vendetta's. To afford that just take out some of your ranged heavies from your marines and mitigate their role to the vendetta's. Its 360/490/620 poitns for how I run them depending on how many Vendetta's you want and the scale of your game. There are multiple reasons why this is a viable tactic but what sold me on it was the fact that it was one of the only anti air options that actually added a scoring unit. Then again, you could just take Dark Angels allies in the form of a librarian, 5-man tactical squad and 10 devastators. Upgrade the tac and dev's to have some missile launchers with flakk and your good to go. That build would run you about 440 poitns or so. On the cheap you could do the libby and two 5-man tacs with missile launchers for 290. This would give you 2 scoring units but only 2 AA shots.


While there is definitely some tactical merit to taking allies as you stated... I wonder if the majority of players (that being the more "casual" players) are interested. Allies are a point risk as they remove some of the synergy that exists within a single codex and how their HQs may interact.

Perhaps I am being a jerk but I personally dislike the new ally rules as they can lead to abuse.

Ex: I play mostly with a group of about 7 local gamers, all of whom have a history with one another, and we all get along. I won't say we all see eye-to-eye on everything because that's just untrue, and we differ greatly in our view of the fluff... anyway, at one point there were 4 of us just finishing up a set of 1 on 1 games at the local gaming store when two new faces walked in with cases full of minis.

We made nice, introduced ourselves and had a few minutes of the awkward AA "my name is Joe" nonsense, after which they offered to play a match. They proceeded to pull out two allies forces. One was playing Grey Knights allied with Dark Eldar, the other was Playing Eldar allied with Dark Eldar.

I personally find the notion of Eldar & Dark Eldar offensive based on my own interpretations of the fluff, and the GK/DE combo just screamed, "I want to win, any fun at all be damned".

We politely excused ourselves and obviously did not want to play.

Was I being rude? maybe.
Was it uncalled for? I don't think so
Would I do it again? Yes


Could not agree with you more on the allies bit. I do in fact hate it. I also hate losing badly in organized play too though so I'm forced to sell out my morals. It also helped that I was already running a 3 vendetta imperial guard list back in 5th. I especially want to spit at Dark Eldar / Eldar players but I hate poncey eldar so that doesnt really mean much

My end advice to the OP which addresses all poitns of concern is to simply run your C:SM chapter as a Dark Angels successor until you get a new dex. No allies, no fuss. Dark Angels are cool anyway.

Oh, and yeah, the Blade of Failiban is pretty much the worst thing i've ever seen.
I do have the codex and several models from DV, so they could be used as a Count as DA army for the new rules, but the versatility of C:SM is something i really like, and DA don't have TFC to my knowledge, nor do they have the awesome sternguard which i want to get badly. The closest DA army i could run is a Greenwing army with 2 DW termies. Ill just wait for DFA and get a Storm Raven/Talon or get an Eagle

Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)
 
   
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Sherman, TX

Why not just take the aegis and quad-gun option for 100 points?

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 captain collius wrote:
En Excelsis wrote:
 kronk wrote:
DA tacticals are certainly nice like that.


Yes, the DA Tacticals are pretty great, probably I should think because players will more likely be taking Belial and attempting to run Termis as troops in their stead.

One thing I did notice that kind of irked me, though it is sort of a mild complaint:

Dark Angels Command Squad Company Veteran cannot equip a Relic Blade, and is instead forced to use a Blade of Caliban... possibly the worst weapon in their codex IMO. Almost makes him not worth taking. See GE Errata for the stat line on the Relic.


Thats why you don't you give him a Mace of Redemption and laugh as he runs through the fields bopping people.


What?

No seriously.... what?

That isn't an option in the new codex
   
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Cincinnati, Ohio

Sir Blayse wrote:
Why not just take the aegis and quad-gun option for 100 points?
Even in the nice and pretty 3/4+ cover(camo-clock scouts or not), my opponents tend to have lots of flamers, which the most I've played against is CSM, one is flamer heavy and the other has a heldrake that can cook a ADL most of the time.

I might also consider a CAR, more durable, and has a multiple shot melta cannon that laughs at armor, while it is immune to melta and it gets a 3/4++(dont know which) from the Front. Alas, it is FW so idk if my opponents would allow it.

Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)
 
   
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Frisco, TX

En Excelsis wrote:
While there is definitely some tactical merit to taking allies as you stated... I wonder if the majority of players (that being the more "casual" players) are interested. Allies are a point risk as they remove some of the synergy that exists within a single codex and how their HQs may interact.

Perhaps I am being a jerk but I personally dislike the new ally rules as they can lead to abuse.

Ex: I play mostly with a group of about 7 local gamers, all of whom have a history with one another, and we all get along. I won't say we all see eye-to-eye on everything because that's just untrue, and we differ greatly in our view of the fluff... anyway, at one point there were 4 of us just finishing up a set of 1 on 1 games at the local gaming store when two new faces walked in with cases full of minis.

We made nice, introduced ourselves and had a few minutes of the awkward AA "my name is Joe" nonsense, after which they offered to play a match. They proceeded to pull out two allies forces. One was playing Grey Knights allied with Dark Eldar, the other was Playing Eldar allied with Dark Eldar.

I personally find the notion of Eldar & Dark Eldar offensive based on my own interpretations of the fluff, and the GK/DE combo just screamed, "I want to win, any fun at all be damned".

We politely excused ourselves and obviously did not want to play.

Was I being rude? maybe.
Was it uncalled for? I don't think so
Would I do it again? Yes


Sounds like those guys lucked out on avoiding a pair of TFGs. Anybody who gets "offended" by badwrongfun combinations of toy soldiers isn't worth playing.

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Nova 2014: Arbiter of the Balance

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Northern California

 ace101 wrote:
Sir Blayse wrote:
Why not just take the aegis and quad-gun option for 100 points?
Even in the nice and pretty 3/4+ cover(camo-clock scouts or not), my opponents tend to have lots of flamers, which the most I've played against is CSM, one is flamer heavy and the other has a heldrake that can cook a ADL most of the time.

I might also consider a CAR, more durable, and has a multiple shot melta cannon that laughs at armor, while it is immune to melta and it gets a 3/4++(dont know which) from the Front. Alas, it is FW so idk if my opponents would allow it.


If your going up against lots of CSM packing helldrakes there's not really much you can do. Like you said, Helldrakes cook an ADL pretty handilly.
   
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Australia

I though long about this for my first tourney in 6th in 2 weeks.

Drakes terrify me.

Had a trial game recently where his detta ignored my quad and rifleman all game.

Have thus submitted a list that might epic fail. It's back to the future stuff.

Am taking two LR phobos plus a quad.

Versatility of the TLLC, protection from the baleflamer, I just had to then shape the remaining list around them.

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