Monstrous Creatures and Partial Obscurity from Infantry.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Vineheart01**

Then you have a smaller target to shoot at, thus missing more.
Same thing, its still a "chance to miss" regardless of the reasons.

**barnowl**

Dozer Blades wrote:
So like if there was just one gant in front of a Carnifex then every enemy shot is going to pass through it. I find that quite amusing.

My read is it would take 3 to get the cover save. A single model does not provide anything to fire between, so would revert back to the 25% cover rule. It would take atleast 3 gaunts to force the line of sight to pass between 2 gaunts.

And yes it does look like in 6th there is no longer a special ruleing for MC's. They get the same cover as any other unit. Never on page 18 were it describes cover saves or on page 48 were it describes MCs.

**Dozer Blades**

vossyvo wrote:
Dozer Blades wrote:
So like if there was just one gant in front of a Carnifex then every enemy shot is going to pass through it. I find that quite amusing.

We'll 1/3 of the total shots fired haha. It is pretty stupid lol.

Pro tip - shoot the gant first with S6+.

**vossyvo**

Dozer Blades wrote:
vossyvo wrote:
Dozer Blades wrote:
So like if there was just one gant in front of a Carnifex then every enemy shot is going to pass through it. I find that quite amusing.

We'll 1/3 of the total shots fired haha. It is pretty stupid lol.

Pro tip - shoot the gant first with S6+.

The storm bolter on the rhino was made for moments like these.

**warpspider89**

I agree that you do get the cover save as long as it is partially covered, however covered that may be, but there is a catch: the firepower of the model receiving the cover save would be subject to a 5+ cover save if they shot at enemies outside of their bubble wrap. The rulebook says that this is the case even if the model can completely see the target.

**Kevin949**

warpspider89 wrote:
I agree that you do get the cover save as long as it is partially covered, however covered that may be, but there is a catch: the firepower of the model receiving the cover save would be subject to a 5+ cover save if they shot at enemies outside of their bubble wrap. The rulebook says that this is the case even if the model can completely see the target.

Most monstrous creatures are far taller than their infantry friends and thus are able to freely see over them and shoot over them, instead of through them.

**warpspider89**

Kevin949 wrote:
warpspider89 wrote:
I agree that you do get the cover save as long as it is partially covered, however covered that may be, but there is a catch: the firepower of the model receiving the cover save would be subject to a 5+ cover save if they shot at enemies outside of their bubble wrap. The rulebook says that this is the case even if the model can completely see the target.

Most monstrous creatures are far taller than their infantry friends and thus are able to freely see over them and shoot over them, instead of through them.

The rules specifically state that as long as they are firing through a third friendly unit, even if they have a clear view, their target gets the same 5+ save that you would get if they were the ones shooting. It is the sentence after the one most people on this thread have been arguing over.

**rigeld2**

As a Nidzilla player I'm aware of that - its just that 90% of my targets have a better or equal to 5+ armor save and that's usually better than my AP. so the fact that my unit provides them cover is irrelevant.

**Kevin949**

warpspider89 wrote:
Kevin949 wrote:
warpspider89 wrote:
I agree that you do get the cover save as long as it is partially covered, however covered that may be, but there is a catch: the firepower of the model receiving the cover save would be subject to a 5+ cover save if they shot at enemies outside of their bubble wrap. The rulebook says that this is the case even if the model can completely see the target.

Most monstrous creatures are far taller than their infantry friends and thus are able to freely see over them and shoot over them, instead of through them.

The rules specifically state that as long as they are firing through a third friendly unit, even if they have a clear view, their target gets the same 5+ save that you would get if they were the ones shooting. It is the sentence after the one most people on this thread have been arguing over.

Ya, if you look back in the thread I was the one that started the "Firing over the unit" argument.

**warpspider89**

Clearly I disagree with your argument on a RAW basis.

**Kevin949**

warpspider89 wrote:
Clearly I disagree with your argument on a RAW basis.

Well either that or you're not understand the concept of shooting over a unit, especially from a monstrous creature to an infantry unit (or possibly another MC). If your claim that his own bubble-wrap would confer a save to the defending unit is what you're meaning, normally a "bubble wrapping" for a unit is another unit that is practically butt-up against the one they're trying to protect. So I believe that most, but not all, monstrous creatures would be able to easily see over and past their own bubble wrapping.

So either we are at a misunderstanding and are arguing the same point, or you truly have a different view of the game rules. I believe it to be the former, at least in some respects.

**warpspider89**

Perhaps we are experiencing a misunderstanding. Lets explore that possibility. Would you please direct me to the BRB pages that you are referencing, which are relevant to the topic of shooting over units (in general and in specific for MCs)? I will review those pages before returning to this issue of misunderstanding vs. disagreement. Thanks.

**roxor08**

vossyvo wrote:
Here is how I see it in several different situations.

Scenario A, is the firing models table eye view on 4 gaunts in front of a MC. They don't block 25% of the MC's body which is the stipulation for normal cover rules however "If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain". It meets this criteria as the firing miniature is partially obscured.

Scenario B, Again firing models table eye view on a single gaunt in front of a MC. Again he doesn't block 25% of the MC's total body but (as silly as it sounds) again he will receive the save i.e. "If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain"

Scenario C, Is in regard to units firing over to deny cover. It’s the same perspective as scenario A but from a Fliers perspective or a model in an elevated position. No cover save would be received here as they can draw direct unobscured sight over the intervening units.

Scenario D, is a previously mentioned situation where say the two yellow blocks are a Vehicle unit (say Leman Russ tanks), 4 inches apart and providing 0% blockage of the unit behind them but as per "if a model fires through gaps in intervening models, the target is in cover even if completely visible" it would still receive the 5+ cover save.

This is how I understand it.

I think this is a good representation of what cover is supposed to do.

I am going to save this!