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I am a DE player and I need help on good strategies to fight IG mechanized lists, I ussually play against a tank spam IG list that has about 4 leman russ and 4 chimera and at least 1 basilisk in a 2000pt game, what is the best way to take out basilisks and tank squadrons with DE, he ussually bubblewraps his tanks in infantry and I can't deepstrike near them or assault them plus it can be hard to get in range with darklances as he has many str8 ordanance 72'' weapons and many autocannons/lascannons, and also he uses Gk allies sometimes and says his 5pt servoskulls allow all his basilisk shots to roll scatter on 1d6 if the shot lands within 12" , can his IG units benefit from this GK equipment?

I highly doubt he can benefit from the servo skulls, as GK aren't battle brothers with anybody.

they aren't battle brothers but the servo skulls are not physcic powers and I can't find anywhere that says he can't and its absolutely ridiculous that for 20 points he basically gives all his leman russ balistic skill 10, he can just fill my deployment with servoskulls and he almost automatically wins

seanm222 wrote:
I highly doubt he can benefit from the servo skulls, as GK aren't battle brothers with anybody.

Kinda irrelevant, it's RAW. All friendly models. Allies are counted as friendly, even if it's only convenience (unless it's a psychic power). There is nothing in the FAQ which limits the servo skull to GK only.

So yeah, it's legal, although I'd be willing to guess it's not RAI but that doesn't matter.

On DE vs IG, I'd say that bikes are great. If I remember rightly they can glance chimerae and are pretty hard to take out with the turbo boost. Other than that I've not got much advice, my guard list minces my usual DE opponent.

Griddlelol, the bikes have str3 and can get furious charge if thats what you mean by glancing a chimera but their real anti tank ability is that they have access to a blaster (str8 ap2, lance) or a heat lance (str6 ap1 melta, lance with 18") Seeing as you are an IG player I can't ask what you would use against IG but what DE units give you the most trouble?

I thought the bikes had some sort of vector strike weapon. Where if they fly over they hit hard. I could be confusing that with something else though. I just remember bikes running riot over my troops and then KOing a LRBT.

It's hard to say, spamming skimmers can get really annoying really fast, but I feel like IG is a really good counter to DE, so you're going to have quite a bit of trouble no matter what.

The bubble wrap is fairly easy to remove, if you position your firing you can make a nice little gap in the infantry to shoot though.

If he's not using vendettas, the DE flier is usually quite nasty. Although it's never caused me trouble because I bring plenty of my own fliers.

Have you considered allies?

 Griddlelol wrote:

seanm222 wrote:
I highly doubt he can benefit from the servo skulls, as GK aren't battle brothers with anybody.

Kinda irrelevant, it's RAW. All friendly models. Allies are counted as friendly, even if it's only convenience (unless it's a psychic power). There is nothing in the FAQ which limits the servo skull to GK only.

So yeah, it's legal, although I'd be willing to guess it's not RAI but that doesn't matter.

On DE vs IG, I'd say that bikes are great. If I remember rightly they can glance chimerae and are pretty hard to take out with the turbo boost. Other than that I've not got much advice, my guard list minces my usual DE opponent.

This is incorrect. Please refer to the Allies of Convenience section of your handbook, page 112. It specifically states that allies of convenience are treated as enemy models (with a few specific exceptions).

Oh thanks corrollax, I missed that, it seemed just a bit unfair when he had 9 ordanance blasts with range into my deployment that only scattered d6"

Griddlelol, they do have a vector strike thing, only str3 as far as I know though also the only allies that DE can have that aren't desperate allies are Eldar and corsair eldar but at least eldar are battlebrothers, I'm considering using a farseer and some fire dragons or something

Tactics wise I would try to get to him asap, so take units that do well up close such as reavers, haywyches, wracks, maybe even talos', etc. I probably wouldnt run beasts with all the pie plates though. hope this helped

I might try some webway portal/talos combinations (although first I need to make a talos conversion, which I will probably convert from the daemon prince along the lines of a gigantic wrack. ) and I will probably try haywitches and maybe a horde of kyhmarae as he probably won't want to waste str8 ap3 shots on 4++ models that aren't even worth that much

Lances. Lots and lots of lances. Blasters, dark lances, heat lances...anything you got. Blasterborn, ravagers, fliers, reavers, kabbie squads, raiders...lances.

Haywitches are nice, but getting them there can be problamatic. Granted, mine have always fared well at getting a russ that is not parked behind an army.

Night shields are questionable, as most IG guns are 4'. That said, they are not bad upgrades.

Both fliers can do well against IG.

The reavers are really good as they can take out anything IG can throw at you. At home killing troops, or popping tanks.

Servo skulls are easy to get rid of. Just get within 6" of them, and they pop. If you are getting hit by blasts near the skulls, it is your fault.

Oh, THANK YOU DR. my opponent conveniently neglected to mention the fact that they can be destroyed, in fact he said they were indestructible, seemed a bit ridiculous

walkiflalka wrote:
Oh, THANK YOU DR. my opponent conveniently neglected to mention the fact that they can be destroyed, in fact he said they were indestructible, seemed a bit ridiculous

lol! well that would explain why he was creaming you so bad, I was wondering how he managed to place them in your deployment zone.

Various rule misunderstandings aside, please understand that this is a very tough matchup. Lances won't do you a bit of good against AV12 vehicles, and poison isn't doing you any favors against T3 targets.

IG were considered Dark Eldar's toughest codex in 5th edition, and things have only gotten harder since. Good luck.

Only thing that has ever worried me with Dark Eldar are the crazy amounts of lances they can field, and the crazy amounts of poison weapons. IG could care less about poison, but the weight of fire is nasty on wearing down our infantry.

I don't know what they're called but the little skimmers that can hold like 5 guys and come with the machine gun type things can be quite nasty if you can get them in range.

As for russes, just spam as many lances as you can, some are bound to make it through eventually.

Oh yeah and remember this. You have one of the speediest armies around. IG are slow to get moving, and we like to camp out in a corner against armies we can't pin down. Our high volume of units also makes it hard for us to focus fire on a specific area, and it's our biggest weakness. If you go after him, commit as much as you can to a small area and try to smash through it. From there, just mop up the rest of his lines. Trying to go at him head on in a straight up fight is exactly what he wants.

Use your speed to play keep away, decide when and where your battles happen, and to grab objectives late game. If he tries to venture out to take something, punish him for it. You want him to turtle up.

You are essentially 130 pound guy with a rapier fighting a 350 pound guy with a sledgehammer. As bizarre as this sounds, it sums up the IG vs DE matchup pretty well. He will struggle to land hits on you, but if he succeeds, it's game over for you.

Reavers reavers reavers. 1st turn you can turbo over to his side and get the 3+ cover save (skilled rider) and kill his command units (especially flamer PCs). 2nd turn you unload heat lances into his arty. He wont assault you as all his weapons are rapid fire and guards men in melee... yeah.

Razorwings are better than venom spam for cleaning out infantry.

Grotesques in the elite slot are very hard for guard to deal with. too many wounds for arty (and fnp) but too tough for lasguns

Manticores destroy grotesques. Not a good idea.

Ok thanks for the advice everyone, I think I will be picking up some reavers, converting some grotesques and talos and punching through his lines where they are weak, I don't know why I didn't just try that, he often has trouble dealing with my units when I take the fight to him but when i wait for him I lose, one time when I was playing tau though , I flanked a unit of stealthsuits in and killed a basilisk and even though they were standing in the middle of his army they were alive at the end of the game and managed to kill two guard sqauds and a platoon command squad in cc

Corollax wrote:


This is incorrect. Please refer to the Allies of Convenience section of your handbook, page 112. It specifically states that allies of convenience are treated as enemy models (with a few specific exceptions).

Indeed, I assumed that it was only deperate. So yeah, the GK servoskull doesn't work for IG, as they're not "friendly" but treated as enemies.

The Rapier vs Sledgehammer is a perfect analogy, With Dark Eldar i've found a good deployment is critical. By focusing on attacking a portion at a time, you'll achieve greater success. put your 2000pts against 500pts of his. Speed and maneuvarability is key. But just my 2cents. Good Luck and hope you crush some Imperial skulls!

It can be very hard to pull off, but I have used a 5 man squad of haywire wyches to roll through a parking lot. Though most of the time, I take out one tank and then they get flamed and die.
The infantry bubble wrap shouldn't be a problem, the amount of ap5 shots you can put out especially with venoms or warriors in raiders with splinter racks...
Ravagers are good at popping tanks.
Beasts can be good, they are very durable and absorb masses of firepower and with the Barron and razorwings have a small chance at popping tanks too.
IG are one of my main opponents and I must admit I often struggle. I make him pay for his victories though.

Surprised no one has mentioned this but try taking a voidraven with two STR 7 large blast missiles to try and go for a glance then wreck with its two Str 9 lances and drop its melta bomb when you get too close. Otherwise you can go standard Razorwing for 4 cheap str 6 missiles

Otherwise yes to reavers as you can either go for the heat lance or blaster and if you 're desperate you can use cluster caltrops for D6 Str6 hits

Haywire Wyches would be fabulous for multi assault but good luck getting them there

Ok thanks, I think I will pick up some reavers and I already love my voidraven, the extra point of armour makes such a difference!

Barrywise wrote:


Otherwise yes to reavers as you can either go for the heat lance or blaster and if you 're desperate you can use cluster caltrops for D6 Str6 hits

Caltrops! That's what I was thinking of!

for IG parking lots I love the Nightspinner. Group the tanks up and immobilize them when they attempt to move. Blow Chimeras with their side armor 10.

I also field 2 Voidravens loaded with Shatterfield missiles (Str 7) and will fly by bomb them when I fly off the board.

IG is definately a tough match up, but the key is to keep a level head andn ot freak out that your playing Mech IG.

Caltrops affect non-vehicle units only I believe.

The Duke is a very good option for DSing squads of 5 bare wyches with Haywire Grenades in a Venom amongst enemy lines. If you can survive the turn they land they will destroy a battle tank with ease in a turn. I find this is the wyches only current role in this edition. The Duke also grants a boost to the drugs table which (with a touch of luck) could make your wyches a little tougher to kill.

Razorwings are nice, and can be great if your opponent isn't toting a quad gun (or Hydra in this case)

Ravagers are still good but the idea of taking a Chronos/Talos is probably a bit flawed though as IG certainly have the firepower to down it before it even thinks about getting close. The Portal is also virtually useless as you cannot assault out of it and it costs a good investment to get it setup on the table.

Reavers are better now than they were but can get expensive fast. A couple of squads of 3 bare Reavers with either a Blaster or Heat Lance (I prefer the Lance) can be a sneaky threat.

Unfortunately for DE, Guard is a pretty tough match-up. They can bring more than enough mid-strength weaponry to ruin our day quite easily. Keep out of sight as much as possible and hit fast and hard at one part of the army until it's gone and then move on to the next. Pretty boring and generic advice but it the way to go (mostly)

Boar

Although how many points of shooting will the Taloi absorb from the rest of your army?

walkiflalka wrote:
they aren't battle brothers but the servo skulls are not physcic powers and I can't find anywhere that says he can't and its absolutely ridiculous that for 20 points he basically gives all his leman russ balistic skill 10, he can just fill my deployment with servoskulls and he almost automatically wins

Havn't researched the legality of this yet, but, how about fighting an E/DE alliance army. Incorporate some Eldar heavy weapons units into your list, Walkers and support weapons. I'd tool them out as Distortion Cannons and rip open holes in the warp right over his tanks/troops and kill two birds with one stone. Field an Avatar of Khaine just for giggles and see how that works out.

 Tresdedos wrote:

walkiflalka wrote:
they aren't battle brothers but the servo skulls are not physcic powers and I can't find anywhere that says he can't and its absolutely ridiculous that for 20 points he basically gives all his leman russ balistic skill 10, he can just fill my deployment with servoskulls and he almost automatically wins

Havn't researched the legality of this yet, but, how about fighting an E/DE alliance army. Incorporate some Eldar heavy weapons units into your list, Walkers and support weapons. I'd tool them out as Distortion Cannons and rip open holes in the warp right over his tanks/troops and kill two birds with one stone. Field an Avatar of Khaine just for giggles and see how that works out.

Eldar are battle brothers with DE so 100% legal. They are the only feasible ally really, I mean I guess I could justify using my Tau as allies for a couple railguns but really, its not competitive with the whole desperate allies thing

walkiflalka wrote:

 Tresdedos wrote:

walkiflalka wrote:
they aren't battle brothers but the servo skulls are not physcic powers and I can't find anywhere that says he can't and its absolutely ridiculous that for 20 points he basically gives all his leman russ balistic skill 10, he can just fill my deployment with servoskulls and he almost automatically wins

Havn't researched the legality of this yet, but, how about fighting an E/DE alliance army. Incorporate some Eldar heavy weapons units into your list, Walkers and support weapons. I'd tool them out as Distortion Cannons and rip open holes in the warp right over his tanks/troops and kill two birds with one stone. Field an Avatar of Khaine just for giggles and see how that works out.

Eldar are battle brothers with DE so 100% legal. They are the only feasible ally really, I mean I guess I could justify using my Tau as allies for a couple railguns but really, its not competitive with the whole desperate allies thing

Tau? You can't trust those hippies! E/DE all the way. They complement each other. Imperative you win the first roll. Hit him in the flanks with ravagers, raiders (loaded w/Kabalite heavy weapons squads, dark lances and splinter cannons), venoms loaded with wracks and incubi, and Scourges armed to the teeth with dark lances. Shoot and scoot. Shoot on the move. Take advantage of E/DE mobility and firepwer. Hit and run. DE are buccaneers. They don't stand and fight, they shoot and scoot. If this guy is going to play this way, fine. Go in with the attitude of kill everything, and to hell with the objectives.If he screams, "No fair." Put on your best Jack Sparrow voice, smlie and say, "Pirate!"Bring your Eldar heavy weapons unit up on the 2nd turn with their distortion cannons rip his IG/GK some new anal orifi,