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As with many of the Howling Griffons stationed at the Khymara system during the Badab War, many of the battle-brothers still maintained their Codex Approved Night World Battle Livery from their prior deployment in the Caradryad Sector.

I imagine many chapters set against camouflage but unless you're firing down in said hollow bullet, usually shock is aided by getting to the enemy undetected - do remember elite nutters or not, they're not very numerous a bit of stealth before the fight is probably accepted by a lot of Astartes in certain situations.

Again, with weapons often aided by technological or sorcerous targeting apparatus, Xeno physiology extending far beyond (or at least differently from) human range, coupled with the fact that SM and their vehicles are just fething huge... there's probably little value in camouflage for them. They paint a huge radar picture, and those nuclear reactors on their back probably put off a fair bit of waste heat.

Well it is hard to have a camo pattern for all the various alien worlds out there. It's hard enough for modern soldiers to have a uniforms for desert, forest urban etc. Imagine having to have camo patterns for all the alien worlds they might visit.

So my way of coming up with a solution is that for the fluff for my made up chapter I said the power armor has technology to blend in with the surroundings. The normal colors (I use a light blue for my Chapter) is the dress colors and in the field the flick a switch and the power armor will blend in with the surroundings, sort of like Predator but not as good. No in game effect and I don't model it, just my own little bit of fluff I use to make the 40K universe more logical in my head. Just like in my 40K universe chapters are bigger than 1000 strong because that is stupid.

I think it's appropriate for chapters/legions that go for stealth in their combat doctrine like the Alpha Legion. Other chapters...perhaps not. I think chapters are too proud to ditch their colour scheme for a camo.

 Jimsolo wrote:


Argument against camouflage: The Space Marines are supposed to represent a heraldric, elite-warrior feel that harkens back to such groups throughout history. (Chivalric knights, samurai, etc.) Camouflage defeats the bold feel that this theme is supposed to have. In addition, the bright colors they wear are INTENDED to make them a target. The attention they draw is at least as important as the damage they do, since it pulls enemy fire away from far more vulnerable targets (like Guardsmen, who will be drawing less attention since they SHOULD be wearing camo) and onto those with a better chance of surviving it. Camouflage no way!

They dress like heraldic groups of the past for the same reasons those groups did so. They are an elite fighting force, largely immune to missile fire, who want the enemy to see plain as day that they are about to get a thorough butt-kicking. I don't think it is intended to make them a target, but them being a target just isn't that big a concern. A shining vanguard of knights might well lose a few to crossbow and longbow bolts, or a half dozen to a cannon shot - but the psychological impact of seeing them bearing down in bright colors and lethal arms both terrorizes their enemy and heartens their allies.

Skulking around in camo does not have the same effect, and their armor is good enough that they simply don't *need* to. The 40k Universe is not a missile weapon dominated environment - it is an armor dominated one. It is much closer to late Middle Age warfare than modern... longbows and cannons were making life a lot more dangerous for a knight in shining armor, but he would still dominate the field for centuries with no thought of needing to smear himself in mud and green paint. His armor was simply better than the missile weapons he faced. Today we think of missile weapons as obviously dominant (as did ancient Egypt prior to run ins with Greek heavy infantry), but a Space marine army could rampage across our battlefields as easily as Knights in the middle ages waded through short bow fire.

Ok, you're making a big assumption about alien sensory and technology making camo obsolete. In game there is only evidence to refute this claim, Imperial Guard use camo uniforms and camo nets are a vehicle upgrade option which gives them a better cover save. The only piece of wargear that I can think of that uses sensors is the auspex. Everyone else is acquiring targets with the naked eye, there may be a few expetions but it certainly isn't the rule.

I think many of you are not understanding how camo is actually used. Unless it's a sniper/recon team in ghillie suits, total concealment is not something camo is expected to provide. The advantage of camo is that it breaks up the profile of the wearer, making them and the unit as a whole, harder to fixate on than say the Gordon's fisherman in his yellow rain coat.

Space Marines are known for sound tactics. Sometimes advancing across the field in a frontal assault is not the best option. Some of y'all make it sound like the Space Marines haven't lost a battle and are never in danger. In a stand up firefight, camo is your friend. You never want to profile yourself more than you need to in those situations. Make no mistake, AP3 or below weapons are out there.

As someone mentioned earlier, suspension of belief and artistic variety is the reason more 40k armies don't feature camo.

At weighing in at X amount of tonnage, who really thinks a seven foot tall Space Marine can actually 'sneak' around? You'd think camoflauge would be a moot point...

 KplKeegan wrote:
At weighing in at X amount of tonnage, who really thinks a seven foot tall Space Marine can actually 'sneak' around? You'd think camoflauge would be a moot point...

I agree with this. Especially as they're wearing essentially motorised armour. A twig cracking underneath a foot would be drowned out by the thundering of what's basically a machine running.

On the idea of breaking up the view to make targeting more difficult, camo won't make much of a difference. Most of the imagery of space marines is them walking through the open firing from the hip. Not crouched down behind a tree, or hiding in a bush.

Maybe it's as simple as... They want to be seen, they want there opponent to know what has come for them, it's basically the marines saying "hey! Here we are, and there isn't a damn thing you can do to save yourself"

My opinion is that all space marines except captains, some chaos marines and space wolves should be wearing helmets on all of the models I just thinks it 1: cooler and 2: why when fighting something like a ork shoota would you take of your helmet which can reflect the pathetic bullets if with your helmet off you could die to one shot. That's just how I remember space Marines being...

I voted no.

Not just because the rule of cool, heraldry or the shock tactics, but because of the noise.
Even if Power Armour is sophisticated enough to allow a Marine to perform backflips with ease, it's still grimdark. I imagine all the hydraulics and servos and stuff going on inside a power armour suit to make it work, make a lot of creaking and whirring and other mechanical sounds. Not to mention the weight and size. Try sneaking around corners and what not when you're 2 tons of metal 7 feet tall and nearly as wide. I think you'd hear them coming even if they wear camo paint. Also the fact we've discussed before, crash-landing in a hardly discreet Drop Pod or being Deep Striked with a flash and bang. The element of surprise kind of disappears early.

That is all gentlemen

also it makes you wonder about those imperial fists......

I think the SWAT team analogy is the best one - marines can be stealthy - they are all trained as scouts at some point after all. They can be patient. Generally, however, they go for the 'dynamic entry' approach of landing in your face and blowing stuff up at close range!

The only camo using chapters I can think of are Raven Guard with their all black, strike from the shadows 'I am batman' style approach, the Raptors who are coloured for Jungle warfare (and are Raven Guard successors) and the Mantis Warriors who with their green/tan colour scheme are suited for more verdant arenas.

Macabre wrote:

Space Marines are known for sound tactics. Sometimes advancing across the field in a frontal assault is not the best option. Some of y'all make it sound like the Space Marines haven't lost a battle and are never in danger. In a stand up firefight, camo is your friend. You never want to profile yourself more than you need to in those situations. Make no mistake, AP3 or below weapons are out there.

As someone mentioned earlier, suspension of belief and artistic variety is the reason more 40k armies don't feature camo.

Still, you are looking at warfare in a very "right this moment" kind of way. Camo is nothing new - it is certainly very advanced at the moment, but using natural colors and paints to break up your silhouette and remain unseen are very ancient practices. Whenever you have poor armor, loose formations and missile weapons around, you get some form of camouflage.

The Romans and later English knights had plenty of experience with camouflaged opponents, for instance. But neither the Romans nor English knights adopted the practice, because it was not tactically efficient for them. For it to work it required they break up their formations, it required they drop their morale boosting illusion of invulnerability, and even worse it removed the appearance of fearless invulnerability from the view of their enemy. There were certainly bows, siege engines and cannons well able to punch through heavy armor of the time, but not enough to make the tradeoffs of camouflage worthwhile. Militaries from ancient Greece through the renaissance were not populated by morons; they just didn't see camo as a worthwhile investment.

Camo is back in vogue because our missile weapons have far outstripped our armor for a few centuries. But there remains something to be said for the implacable, organized advance of elite warriors who show no fear of the enemy’s weapons (even as they occasionally die to them). Like I said before, Space marines would terrify our ground troops – not because their armor and weapons are better (though they are), but because that superiority of equipment would allow Marines to largely ignore the rules of engagement we are used to.

Macabre wrote:

I think many of you are not understanding how camo is actually used. Unless it's a sniper/recon team in ghillie suits, total concealment is not something camo is expected to provide. The advantage of camo is that it breaks up the profile of the wearer, making them and the unit as a whole, harder to fixate on than say the Gordon's fisherman in his yellow rain coat.

But you're not understanding just how big a Space Marine is. At 7+ feet tall and about twice as thick as a regular man, the Adeptus Astartes have a massive visual profile that, if anything, makes them impossible to concealing their outlines. They tower over bushes, foiliage, and even snow drifts.