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What tactics do current Eldar players use for a quick rush early game that has been successful in 6th Ed?

In my last game I played the following list

Autarch (Fusion Gun, Power Sword)
Farseer (ML 2, basic loadout)
6 Warlocks with Destructor

3 squads of 5 Dire Avengers (2 with twin catapult Exarch, one with power weapon & shimmer shield for holding objectives).

2 squads of 6 Swooping Hawks (exarch using Hawk's Talon)

2 Wraithlords both using 1 Starcannon & 1 Scatter Laser
1 squad of 3 War Walkers each with 2 Scatter Lasters

1 Squad of 6 Fire Dragons with Exarch using Firepike and both powers, and given a Wave Serpent with Twin linked Scatter Lasers.

2 Squads of Striking Scorpions with Biting Blades and both powers.

(list is almost exacly 2k points)









At the start of turn 1 I had my Autarch attached to one of the Scorpion squads infiltrated on the right side of my enemies deployment zone, with the War Walkers Scout moved just outside, and the other squad of Striking Scorpions infiltrating on the opposite side for a "pincer strike".

The entire rest of my army was deployed as far forward as the rules allowed in DoW deployment. (game type we rolled was Purge).

My enemy was Necrons BTW.

The ultimate end to the game was a victory for me. I ended up tabling the Necrons in Turn 4. And only suffered minimal losses (and what losses I did suffer were from Imhotek and his storms).

This tactic worked SO well, I am permanently replacing my former Howling Banshee squads with the Scorpions. Given that infiltrate is a much greater advantage.

Has anyone else had similar results? Or was this victory the result of random luck?

Double check the faq and rulebook. Fairly certain the Autarch cant infiltrate with the Scorpions.

Infiltrate rule specifically says that ICs without Infiltrate cannot join squads that are deployed as Infiltrators.

pg. 38, last paragraph of the rule.

Well I'll be damned. That's a correction I will have to make in future games.

And while I am grateful for the correction, Is there anyone interested in answering the questioned now that I have been fact-checked?

Well, no. I dont rush up on another army like you did and actually win a game. The units are just too fragile to survive. Try it over multiple games with various opponents and missions and let us know how it performed. Not trying to diminish your games, but I dont forsee this army being durable enough based on what you have indicated.

How did your Hawks do/what did they go after may I ask?
I havent run them in (literally) years.
Any use?

They usually blow up some vehicle (hopefully squadron) for me and then get shot.

Deepstriking hasn't been useful much, I want them on the board turn 1.

Quick rush? Jetbikes that move 12", turbo boost 36". No matter who you run, that's the fastest rush an Eldar can do.

Success? Not in the same game as rushing. I castle with Pathfinders and Harlequins. If, for some reason, I really need to move, I'll either run a jetcouncil, 2x Farseers and like 5-8x locks, or ally in some DE beasts and put a Jetseer in there for prescience. That is about as fast as our good units get.

The only "rush" tactic I currently have in Eldar is Karandras infiltrating a bunch of Harlequins. It's not really rush though, since I usually want them pretty far off to the side opposition.

 Ratius wrote:
How did your Hawks do/what did they go after may I ask?
I havent run them in (literally) years.
Any use?

I wouldn't say that they were the focus of my army, but they are the only logical FA option as the Eldar now in 6th Ed.

Spiders were viable in 5th, but with a range of 12" they are joke now. And the Vipers are BS3 and thusly also useless.

You pretty much have to pay the premium for them. I personally did not give them Skyleap, only interceptor. On turn 2 both squads arrived via deepstrike. 1 scattered about 3 iches but with no mishaps, the other landed where I intended. They both dropped grenades on a squad of Necron Warriors and tokk out 4 models, the combined fire of the two squads then killed all the remaining models, including the member of the Court (lord with Rez orb). so they took a 10 man squad + Lord down from start to finish in turn 2. Turn 3 one of the squad charged the annihilation barge and glanced it to death (with a few pens as well) while the other squad killed the Ghost Arc by charging it. Turn 4 (last turn) they focused fire to level the squad the piled out of the Ghost Arc.

They actually performed quite well.

But my point was that the real kick to my army was infiltrating my Scorpions (granted I did have an Autarch in there by mistake). They both ended up 12" from his Immortals because they infiltrated outside LoS. Turn 2 the first squad just cleaned house with the immortals, and the other squad got tied up with a group of Necron Warriors (with the Autarch who won a challenge, again should not have been there).

Turn 3 the second squad joined the fight with the first squad, as did his Destroyers. I lost 2 Scorpions, he lost 3 Destroyers and his second squad of Warriors.

Turn 4 the Autarch left the squad and dueled Imhotek, & killed him as the two scorpion squads ATE the Deathmarks.


Mind you, it wasn't all gravy for me. Imhotek and his crazy lightening storm just DESTROYED my farseer in turn 2. He rolled the six to hit her, and then got lucky with another 6 and she took 6 S8 hits... she died.

 En Excelsis wrote:

Turn 4 the Autarch left the squad and dueled Imhotek, & killed him as the two scorpion squads ATE the Deathmarks.

Buh? It'd have been a major victory if your Autarch wounded Imotekh. Killed him? Go buy a lottery ticket.

 En Excelsis wrote:

Mind you, it wasn't all gravy for me. Imhotek and his crazy lightening storm just DESTROYED my farseer in turn 2. He rolled the six to hit her, and then got lucky with another 6 and she took 6 S8 hits... she died.

Why wasn't she in a unit?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 En Excelsis wrote:

Turn 4 the Autarch left the squad and dueled Imhotek, & killed him as the two scorpion squads ATE the Deathmarks.

Buh? It'd have been a major victory if your Autarch wounded Imotekh. Killed him? Go buy a lottery ticket.

 En Excelsis wrote:

Mind you, it wasn't all gravy for me. Imhotek and his crazy lightening storm just DESTROYED my farseer in turn 2. He rolled the six to hit her, and then got lucky with another 6 and she took 6 S8 hits... she died.

Why wasn't she in a unit?

The Autarch vs. Imhotek is fairly significant. You indicated your Autarch has a Power Sword (S3, AP3) and Imhotek is T5, 2+ Save. Basically, this means you hit 3 times, rolled 3 '6's to wound and your opponent rolled all 1's for armor saves. Not saying it didn't happen, but this is an extremely rare occurance and something that makes things difficult to judge how something performs.

In a standard 2000 point game, I'm struggling to see how this army survives, especially with you rushing the army forward.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 En Excelsis wrote:

Turn 4 the Autarch left the squad and dueled Imhotek, & killed him as the two scorpion squads ATE the Deathmarks.

Buh? It'd have been a major victory if your Autarch wounded Imotekh. Killed him? Go buy a lottery ticket.

 En Excelsis wrote:

Mind you, it wasn't all gravy for me. Imhotek and his crazy lightening storm just DESTROYED my farseer in turn 2. He rolled the six to hit her, and then got lucky with another 6 and she took 6 S8 hits... she died.

Why wasn't she in a unit?

Okay, as requested I played another game with similar loadouts against my buddy. We both made a few changes but the outcome was ultimately the same. Most of the changes we made were do to mistakes from the previous games that we wanted to avoid this time (Autarch not being attached to the SS squad, etc).

My exact list was as follows:

Farseer w/ RoW, Spirit Stones, and 2 additional powers
Autarch w/ Power Sword, fusion gun
1 squad of 5 Warlocks, 1 with Destructor, 1 with Enhance.

2 Squads of Dire Avengers, Naked.

1 Squad of 6 Banshess (exarch with Executioner) no powers.
1 squad of 6 Scorpions (exarch with Biting Blade) both powers

2 squads of 6 Hawks (exarchs with Hawk's Tallons) Interceptor power

2 Wraithlords (wraithsword - against my better judgement) and Starcannon
1 squad of 3 War Walkers each with 2 scatter lasers.

This list was 1496 points in a 1500 game.




Game was "purge the alien" on "Vanguard" deployment. I rolled the first turn but Imhotek seized the init since he apparently just does that kinda crap. Turn 1 was night-fighting but that doesn't do a whole lot anymore in 6th ed. since there is no more rolling for distance.

I deployed my War Walkers & Autarch at very front of my deployment zone and infiltrated my Scorpions being cover, out of LOS about 12" from his Deathmarks (which I assume he took to counter my Wraithlords). The Farseer was right behind the War Walkers, flanked on either side by one of the Wraithlords, and followed by the two small squads of Dire Avengers. About half way across the map, I had the Banshees on foot, set up to be the third angle of attack between the two other groups. Lastly, the 5 warlocks too up a flank by the end of my dep zone, on the far side of my warithlords.

Both squads of Hawks were in reserve.

My buddy started the game with 1 squad of 5 deathmarks, Imhotek, 1 squad of 10 immortals, 3 wraiths, and a Triarch Stalker the stalker and the Wraiths where up on his front lines. He killed 2 of my Dire Avenger models with lightening from Imhotek.

His stalker and Wraiths closed some distance on first turn but did not have LoS so couldn't fire. The deathmarks moved further away from my scorpions since they didn't have LoS either.

In my first turn I now has LoS to his wraiths with my Farseer and since once the powers I rolled was "puppet master", I hijacked the one with a Transdimensional Beamer, and fired at his Triarch Stalker. Being a walker, it has a S value of 7, took the test, failed, and was removed. (This was both funny, and sort of sad for my buddy). The War Walkers opened up on the Wraiths, killing two of them and wounding the last one. The wraithlords did nothing, the Banshess, Autarch, & Scorpions all ran. as did the warlocks.

Turn 2, my buddy pulled in all his reserves. One of the barge models with 10 warriors, another 10 man squad of warriors near the immortals which were "guarding" his HQ, another squad of deathmarks, 3 jetbikes (not sure of name offhand). and an annihilation barge with Tesla thingy...

Imhotek rolled a 2 which failed to maintain night fighting so he did not zap anything else. He fired off his attacks from the crew in the barge, which applied 1 HP to each of my war walkers, and moved his Immortals away from Imhotek. His had his remaining wraith move toward my Banshees, charged them, and lost his last wound to 12 pistol shots in overwatch

In my turn, the hawks arrived via deepstrike, both scattered a few inches off, but still within range of his barge, and his immortals after their move. All my units moved a little further forward, the War walkers fired a volley into the Immortals killing 6 of them. the Swooping hawks finished them off. The Banshees The Warlocks ired the one destructor template at the deathmarks, killing 1, and then they charged, killed 2 more. The scorpions charged the other squad of deathmarks near the HQ, lost one model to overwatch, and killed the entire squad, used consilodated a few inches to the edge of cover.

Start of turn, 3, the warriors in the barge opened up again on m war walkers, killing two. leaving the last one with a single HP. The far squad of warriors fired on the far squad of hawks, killed 4, leaving 2 (passed morale). The Barge fired at my scorpions, killing another one, failing to arc.

my part of turn 3, the warlocks finished of the deathmarks, the farseer hijacked the telsa weapon and fired at the far squad of necrons, killed 4, arcing back to the barge and dealing 1 HP. The two squads of hawks charge the barges, killing both. one of the members of the full squad was wounded and failed her save from the explosion. the 10 embarked warriors were charged by the wraithlords, who killed 5 of them. they failed their morale test, and left the table. The Autarch challenged Imhotek and they dueled... no wounds to or from either of them. The rest of my army moved forward, the scorpions running toward the Autarch & Imhotek stopping to engage the jetbikes (killing all 3 and consolidating).

On his turn 4, the necron warriors that remained killed the rest of my far hawk squad, his melee came around we continued to duel, still no wounds.

my turn for, the rest of my army was catching up, the scorpions joined the Autarch, and the Wraithlords & remaining Walker finished off his far warrior squad.

The Autarch did 1 wound to Imhotek, and the Scorpion Exarch did 1.... the duel continued in his turn 5 no wounds from either squad.

bottom of turn 5, I killed his Imhotek with the Scorpion exarch, game was over.

He has a single VP from my hawks, I again removed his army from the table. The banshees were again completely useless.

Well not to be harsh but it sounds as if these games are fairly amateur, I am a main Eldar player and have been for years, that type of list doesn't really work, scorpions haven't really had a place since 4th

Against even a fairly competent cron list , he should wipe this low model count foot list from exsistence fairly quickly. I get the slight feeling there is a lot of incorrect rules use and such going on aswell.

But hey if it works for you and you enjoy it, why the hell not, just in the wider world of 40k , if I tried anything similar, I'd be shot off the field by stormbolter/psy spam, massive blocks of cron warriors/tesla bounces, spammed devourers, etc.

 Arthas367 wrote:
Well not to be harsh but it sounds as if these games are fairly amateur, I am a main Eldar player and have been for years, that type of list doesn't really work, scorpions haven't really had a place since 4th

Against even a fairly competent cron list , he should wipe this low model count foot list from exsistence fairly quickly. I get the slight feeling there is a lot of incorrect rules use and such going on aswell.

But hey if it works for you and you enjoy it, why the hell not, just in the wider world of 40k , if I tried anything similar, I'd be shot off the field by stormbolter/psy spam, massive blocks of cron warriors/tesla bounces, spammed devourers, etc.

Thanks for the honest (albeit condescending) input.

What makes you think the list is amateur? Specifically?

In a game that does not involve flyers of an kind, what exactly would you say stands out as a weakness in my list? I regret that I cannot provide you with specifics on how my adversary equipped his every model... perhaps next time I will request that he print out a copy of his list for me to use a reference later (As is, we bring tablets with excel-sheets for easy access).

I'm not being sarcastic... if you think my list is "amateur" than explain please. What would you substitute in or out?

 En Excelsis wrote:

Imhotek rolled a 2 which failed to maintain night fighting so he did not zap anything else. He fired off his attacks from the crew in the barge, which applied 1 HP to each of my war walkers,

While this is possible, it's highly unlikely. Are you sure you were assigning damage to a vehicle unit correctly?

 En Excelsis wrote:
His had his remaining wraith move toward my Banshees, charged them, and lost his last wound to 12 pistol shots in overwatch

How did one unit of Banshees get 12 pistol shots?

 En Excelsis wrote:
The scorpions charged the other squad of deathmarks near the HQ, lost one model to overwatch, and killed the entire squad, used consilodated a few inches to the edge of cover.
...
the farseer hijacked the telsa weapon and fired at the far squad of necrons, killed 4, arcing back to the barge and dealing 1 HP.
...
the scorpions running toward the Autarch & Imhotek stopping to engage the jetbikes (killing all 3 and consolidating).

Are you sure you guys are using the right kind of dice? This is highly unlikely again.

 En Excelsis wrote:

The Autarch challenged Imhotek and they dueled...
The Autarch did 1 wound to Imhotek, and the Scorpion Exarch did 1.... the duel continued in his turn 5 no wounds from either squad.

bottom of turn 5, I killed his Imhotek with the Scorpion exarch, game was over.

You should re-read the rules on dueling. Your scorpion exarch isn't even allowed to swing.

I will have to agree that you must have some insanely hot dice. You killed imotek with a power sword autarch!? What?! You needed sixes to wound, then he has a 3++. He is re rolling to hit AND to wound you, and he can reanimate...

Night fighting probably got you into assault. In assault, so long as you break the crons you are liable to sweep them, so I could see that(plus you will win in CC) but otherwise...you had some really hot dice.

At this point I think it is best the discussion end.

I've done my best to describe the battle as accurately as I recalled it the day after, and while I am sure some things were not recanted exactly as they were, I don't think that I omitted anything that would have dramatically altered the outcome.

I'll continue to play and tinker with my list, and if this is a matter of lucky rolls (or hot dice, not an insinuation I am fond of) than my luck will eventually shift and I may be on the other end of it.

For everyone who offered constructive feedback. Thanks !

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The only "rush" tactic I currently have in Eldar is Karandras infiltrating a bunch of Harlequins. It's not really rush though, since I usually want them pretty far off to the side opposition.

Sadly this isn't allowed. Phoenix Lord powers only affect Aspect Warriors. (Page 4 of the Eldar FAQ). From memory their powers only work on aspects of their own type as well... although i'd have to confirm.

Also when you DS with Hawks, you're only allowed to throw 1 grenade per squad in your shooting phase. You haven't stated otherwise, but it seemed to me that you was throwing 1 per model

 Morachi wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The only "rush" tactic I currently have in Eldar is Karandras infiltrating a bunch of Harlequins. It's not really rush though, since I usually want them pretty far off to the side opposition.

Sadly this isn't allowed. Phoenix Lord powers only affect Aspect Warriors. (Page 4 of the Eldar FAQ). From memory their powers only work on aspects of their own type as well... although i'd have to confirm.

From the FAQ.

Q. As Phoenix Lords are not Exarchs, but independent characters, do
their exarch powers (Shadowstrike, Skyleap, etc.) affect units other than
Aspect Warriors? (p54)
A. Their powers only affects units of Aspect Warriors

 Sarigar wrote:
Double check the faq and rulebook. Fairly certain the Autarch cant infiltrate with the Scorpions.

Check the codex. The Autarch has all Exarch abilities.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Double check the faq and rulebook. Fairly certain the Autarch cant infiltrate with the Scorpions.

Check the codex. The Autarch has all Exarch abilities.

It addresses this specifically in the codex.

It's something like this
On shadowstrike
This ability cannot affect an autarch - his command is needed elsewhere.

I don't have my codex to hand - could someone do a proper quote for the rule please?

Spot on. Under "Shadowstrike" it specifically states that this power can not affect an Autarch.

With regard to Phoenix Lords, they may only join Aspects of their type as stated as part of the "Disciples" rule. So unfortunately no infiltrating anything other than Scorpions.

The Autarch CAN however deep strike with Warp Spiders with a Jump Pack OR with Swooping Hawks with Wings. Aside from that though... out of luck.

It has also been noted recently that despite being Battle Brothers with Dark Eldar, CWE powers can't affect them. Nor can we cast out of vehicles :(

Fingers crossed a new Codex comes out this year... it is afterall 7 years since the last release.

 Morachi wrote:

With regard to Phoenix Lords, they may only join Aspects of their type as stated as part of the "Disciples" rule. So unfortunately no infiltrating anything other than Scorpions.
Nor can we cast out of vehicles :(

Fingers crossed a new Codex comes out this year... it is afterall 7 years since the last release.

I can't wait for a new 'dex. We have so many holes in ours it's like a colander.

3 points I feel worth mentioning (currently, til the next faq changes things again ) are

Eldar can cast book powers like divination and telepathy in vehicles. No firing points stops us casting witchfire. The faq only prevents eldar farseer powers - which are the codex powers.

We can only cast eldar farseer powers on eldar units. But if you have an allied Archon, he can join an eldar unit (ie wraithguard, guardians etc). So therefore he would still get benfit from fortune for a re-rollable 2++ tanking character.

Phoenix lords can lead squads other than aspects - they are only prohibited from leading other aspects. That still doesn't let anything other than scorpions infiltrate, but it does mean phoenix lords can lead other squads like guardians, harlequins and wraithguard.

But that then gives the beneath.

Baharroth has hit & Run and Karandras has Stealth. These are USR's and not exarch powers, so they affect the squads they lead.
And the most stupidly annoying part is that phoenix lords give fearless to an aspect squad If they lead it. However due to changes in the fearless rule, if one man in a squad has it, they all do. So if they lead guardians, they give fearless regardless. Even though it is plainly against RAI.

Again, I cannot wait for a new codex.

From the articles section on Eldar Units:
Exarch Powers: Autarchs benefits from Exarch powers that apply to a squad that the Autarch joins. (Note that Crack Shot and Fast Shot are exempt as they only benefit the Exarch, and Shadowstrike specifically disallows the Autarch from benefiting)

P-Lords can join non-aspect units, but the Exarch powers don't work on them (?). They count as a pimped-out Exarch, and are handy if the unit's exarch gets sniped out.

So in other words, throw Karandras amongst a squad of Pathfinders and see if anything can hit them, or dares assault.

EDIT: Scratch that, its 2:30am here and my brain wasn't in gear... Oh well.

Just keep a CC squad in charge range, and whack whatever gets close to the snipers.
That Wraithlord would do, and Fortune on it from the Guide-seer.

I think pathfinders already have stealth don't they? If they get the cover save bonus from a different rule it'd work as they'd stack.

Karandras in a unit with a warlock with conceal is nasty as they then get a 4+ cover save in the open, the same as the harlequins.
However, the harlequins already have stealth from the shadow seer so they gain no benefit from Karandras leading them.

These are the only two that work though. And no one wants to take Baharroth.

PredaKhaine wrote:

Baharroth has hit & Run and Karandras has Stealth. These are USR's and not exarch powers, so they affect the squads they lead.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh - and on the subject of eldar rush tactics - I'm trying to work an army list with corsair allies. The corsair prince can make it night fighting for a turn, which could work with a serpent charge quite nicely. I'm thinking 4 serpents, 2 with dire avengers, a unit of wraithguard and a squad of scorpions - all going flat out on turn 1 and getting a cover bonus from nightfighting - turn 2, disembark and shoot (75 shots), turn three charge with the scorpions (I've even managed to kill terminators with scorpions - a full squad gives out about 40 attacks on the charge...)

 Morachi wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The only "rush" tactic I currently have in Eldar is Karandras infiltrating a bunch of Harlequins. It's not really rush though, since I usually want them pretty far off to the side opposition.

Sadly this isn't allowed. Phoenix Lord powers only affect Aspect Warriors. (Page 4 of the Eldar FAQ). From memory their powers only work on aspects of their own type as well... although i'd have to confirm.

It is quite allowed. Shadowstrike gives Karandras and his unit Infiltrate.

Harlequins aren't Aspect Warriors, so they do not get Infiltrate from Shadowstrike.

If any model in a unit has Infiltrate, they may infiltrate. The only restriction being that an Independent Character without Infiltrate cannot Infiltrate when joining a unit that has it.

Karandras has Infiltrate. Any unit he is joined with also has it. It has nothing to do with transferrence of Aspect powers.