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I recently moved, and finally starting going out and playing some war-hams agien. I noticed that all the players I've played agiest believe you can minus the BS from scatter distance, when the weapon fires a barrage attack. (If it's a barrage attack, and you see the target your shooting at.)

When I ask them were in the book they read that, I'm told they were told that from the employees at the two Games Workshop Stores in the citiy. At both stores the employees have been telling everyone that it works this way. You can't argue other wise since the player base take the red shirt's rulings as "the word of god".

I'd just like some unbais views on this so I can better understand the rules. Still in the process of forgetting 5th and learning 6th. =S

page 33 under blast and scatter clear as day and found in under 15 seconds......did you even look?

Edit: To one up this spending an entire 2 seconds more I flipped the page and read the bullet point under barrage weapons stating you do not minus the Ballistic's skill when firing INDIRECTLY which kindly implies you would normally do so or why else would they tell you not to?

Why didn't you just read your rulebook for this? seriously I found the answer through the index in far less time than it's taken me to reply especially since it hasn't changed since 5th ed

so to clarify, barrage doesn't minus the BS if you don't pick a target, and just fire it somewhere?

No. You still have to pick a target. Barrage weapons can fire either directly or indirectly. If they fire directly, they scatter as a blast marker. If they fire indirectly they scatter the full distance.

Since theres no more "G48" rules, you have to target a unit like normal. However, if you cannot see that unit you scatter the full 2D6 - bullseyes dont scatter either btw (else it would be pointless to do it unless there was a hordy army behind a wall)

If they can see the target, BS comes into play.

I believe the old rules it always reduced the scatter but because of the Guessing range it was damn hard to pull it off unless you had a trained eye.

overlordweasel wrote:
so to clarify, barrage doesn't minus the BS if you don't pick a target, and just fire it somewhere?

You cannot fire it just anywhere, you must always fire at a legitimate target (not a point on the ground).
And the scatter is reduced by BS unless the target is out of LOS or inside minimum range.

Not to sound rude, but I have to agree with Orktavius, this is right there in the barrage rules and very easy to find. Even easier of you the index.

In you have line of sight -BS, if not = full scatter, pretty easy.

 Byte wrote:
In you have line of sight -BS, if not = full scatter, pretty easy.

There's more to Indirect then LoS.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Byte wrote:
In you have line of sight -BS, if not = full scatter, pretty easy.

There's more to Indirect then LoS.

That's that root purpose for my statemen(see OP's first post). For more, consult your rulebook. Geez guy, really?

Orktavius wrote:
page 33 under blast and scatter clear as day and found in under 15 seconds......did you even look?

Edit: To one up this spending an entire 2 seconds more I flipped the page and read the bullet point under barrage weapons stating you do not minus the Ballistic's skill when firing INDIRECTLY which kindly implies you would normally do so or why else would they tell you not to?

Why didn't you just read your rulebook for this? seriously I found the answer through the index in far less time than it's taken me to reply especially since it hasn't changed since 5th ed

They are arguing that you can firing a barrage weapon, and if you see the target you get to minus BS like described in blast weaponse. Yet they still get into remove models from centre of blast out like you would as described in barrage/firing indirectly.

I read is that makeing a indirect attack doesn't get in minus BS, and I show them the page you told me. But they refuse to belive that other the word of a redshirt who "called Gamesworkshop to make sure it works that way!"

I've already had to argue with like 3 other people that it doesn't work that way. I realy needed to check this rule with others to make sure I wasn't going crazy. Sorry if that offended you so much, But I was starting to feel like I was going crazy from how many people have been telling me that I'm wrong for saying they don't get in minus the BS on a indirect attack that has LoS.

There's debate as to whether the further bullet points for Barrage Weapons only apply to indirect fire or all fire from barrage weapons, most people accept the latter.

 Lockark wrote:
They are arguing that you can firing a barrage weapon, and if you see the target you get to minus BS like described in blast weaponse.

They're correct (assuming you're firing beyond minimum range).

 Lockark wrote:
Yet they still get into remove models from centre of blast out like you would as described in barrage/firing indirectly.

Whoa, hold up there. You can't just conflate barrage and indirect fire like that. Indirect fire is that subset of barrage fire where you're targeting out of LoS or inside minimum range. The firer does not get to -BS when using indirect fire. But when firing barrage while in LoS and beyond minimum range, -BS applies as normal for a blast weapon (and all barrage weapons are also blast weapons).

Note in particular that determining cover and removing from the center of the blast are rules for barrage, not rules for indirect fire. So, those rules will always apply when firing a barrage weapon, whether firing indirectly or not.

Pyrian wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
They are arguing that you can firing a barrage weapon, and if you see the target you get to minus BS like described in blast weaponse.

They're correct (assuming you're firing beyond minimum range).

 Lockark wrote:
Yet they still get into remove models from centre of blast out like you would as described in barrage/firing indirectly.

Whoa, hold up there. You can't just conflate barrage and indirect fire like that. Indirect fire is that subset of barrage fire where you're targeting out of LoS or inside minimum range. The firer does not get to -BS when using indirect fire. But when firing barrage while in LoS and beyond minimum range, -BS applies as normal for a blast weapon (and all barrage weapons are also blast weapons).

Note in particular that determining cover and removing from the center of the blast are rules for barrage, not rules for indirect fire. So, those rules will always apply when firing a barrage weapon, whether firing indirectly or not.

See what you just said is how i understand the rules work as. But i just had so many people try to tell me otherwise i wanted to duble check. Thanks for the help!