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Can Necron's tesla destructor arc to fliers and/or flying monstrous creatures that are within 6" of the target?

Is it snap fired?

Assuming you mean Zooming fliers and Swooping FMCs, it's quite difficult.

My GW store said it does, but the FAQ states:

"Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas."

The Arc isn't a weapon in itself, but it could be classed as an attack, and since it doesn't explicity roll to hit (you roll to see if the unit is affected by the rule) it could be argued that it cannot target them.

Then again, what is an 'attack'? What if you use Boon of Mutation on a Flying Daemon Prince, and he suffers the S4 hit? Is it classed as an attack that doesn't roll to hit, and is therefore ignored? Or is it classed as a special rule that inflicts hits, laying precedent for Arc to be the same?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Is it snap fired?

'Arc' is a special rule of the Tesla Destructor. If a unit that is hit at least once by the Tesla Destructor and is not wiped out by it, then roll a D6 for every unit within 6", friendly, enemy, engaged and unengaged. On a 6, the unit rolled for suffers D6 S5 AP- hits.

It's not 'fired' per se, but it inflicts hits, and that's where the waters get muddy.

I think a better question is can it be snap fired? Yes. They have also said that weapons that hit automatically can hit flyers so it would appear that tesla arc does hit fliers if they are within the 6" range of the first unit. In the end will truly take a FAQ to be certain.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Assuming you mean Zooming fliers and Swooping FMCs, it's quite difficult.

My GW store said it does, but the FAQ states:

"Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas."

The Arc isn't a weapon in itself, but it could be classed as an attack, and since it doesn't explicity roll to hit (you roll to see if the unit is affected by the rule) it could be argued that it cannot target them.

Then again, what is an 'attack'? What if you use Boon of Mutation on a Flying Daemon Prince, and he suffers the S4 hit? Is it classed as an attack that doesn't roll to hit, and is therefore ignored? Or is it classed as a special rule that inflicts hits, laying precedent for Arc to be the same?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Is it snap fired?

'Arc' is a special rule of the Tesla Destructor. If a unit that is hit at least once by the Tesla Destructor and is not wiped out by it, then roll a D6 for every unit within 6", friendly, enemy, engaged and unengaged. On a 6, the unit rolled for suffers D6 S5 AP- hits.

It's not 'fired' per se, but it inflicts hits, and that's where the waters get muddy.

Well per the tesla rules though it never rolls to hit against the units with 6". It just states a roll of 6 and they are affected by the arc. So if fliers/FMC can only be hit with snap fire I would say it does not hit them.

Last night I played a game where we let it hit a FMC and it grounded him which per the rules he was still allowed charge even after flying that movement phase. Made for a ridiculous threat range.

Wouldn't the Codex over BRB thing allow the Tesla Arc to hit fliers? Just wondering.

I think I have to come down on the side of "no" for Tesla arcing, because of this sentence in the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures.

The Tesla arc effect from the Tesla Destructor does cause hits, and it's not a Snap Shot, so I believe that sentence above prevents it from hitting.

So if you cast Boon of Mutation on a Swooping Daemon Prince it'll ignore the S4 hit it takes?

Well, it's a Blessing, not a Shooting attack, and Hard to Hit really seems to only talk about Shooting attacks. That said, the FAQ expands what Hard to Hit protects against, and it does look to me like the same sentence would also negate the hit from Boon. Yay, something to make that power a little less crappy!

At least RAW. Given that GW often FAQs to RAI, I suspect they (if there were to make a ruling) would rule the hit to still apply, since it's coming from a Blessing.

 Mannahnin wrote:
I think I have to come down on the side of "no" for Tesla arcing, because of this sentence in the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures.

The Tesla arc effect from the Tesla Destructor does cause hits, and it's not a Snap Shot, so I believe that sentence above prevents it from hitting.

You are assuming the arc is is a shot it is not, it is an effect. The hard to hit rule does not apply to it. Its more akin to casting a malediction on the flyer. It hits or it doesn't based on its own rules, hard to hit does not effect it.

Interesting though. The FAQ covers attacks. What about other things that are not classified as attacks or psychic powers? Maledictions and blessing blessing at the top of the list. Then things like Doom's spirit leech? In theory I could enfeeble a hive tyrant and then double him out with a grounding test. Same with a daemon prince from C:CSM.

Hard to hit only applies to shooting attacks nothing more. Flyers do not have any special protection from effects, blessings, maledictions, etc.

there is also this to consider:

"Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes."

You may as well ask does 'melta' effect a flier, or the initial tesla effect itself. The Arc is a weapon property, it's not a good idea to divorce it from the original shot and then try and figure out what i does.

wait how did it get that close to get arced into anyway? you'd have to measure straight up because the base of the flier means absolutely nothing except 1inch from an enemy model or disembarking rules (unless its in hover mode).

Thats why i never get cover saves from my KFF on my dakkajets because unless theyre basically RIGHT over him it wont touch the plane. Damn tall bases lol.

Also, where does it say things that autohit can hit fliers? The FAQ regarding the autohit spells also says in it "or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them"
If that bit wasnt in there, my Weirdboyz would LOVE to Zzap fliers because its not classified as any psychic spell technically. Str10 Ap1 would plaster anything in the air lol

I agree with Mannihim plus it does not automatically hit. It's hard to say whether its a shooting attack or not.

40k-noob wrote:
there is also this to consider:

"Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes."

ooops i posted in the wrong thread. this was for the weirdboy thread.

tgf wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
I think I have to come down on the side of "no" for Tesla arcing, because of this sentence in the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures.

The Tesla arc effect from the Tesla Destructor does cause hits, and it's not a Snap Shot, so I believe that sentence above prevents it from hitting.

You are assuming the arc is is a shot it is not, it is an effect. The hard to hit rule does not apply to it. Its more akin to casting a malediction on the flyer. It hits or it doesn't based on its own rules, hard to hit does not effect it.

Did you read my next post, directly above yours? I'm not assuming any such thing. I agree that the Hard to Hit rule as originally presented in the rulebook applied only to shooting attacks; but the FAQ has broadened its protection a bit. I don't think the Tesla arc is at all comparable to a Malediction. A Malediction doesn't cause hits. Tesla Arc does cause hits, but that sentence in the FAQ specifically prevents hits.

40k-noob wrote:
there is also this to consider:

"Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes."

As I understand it, that is just saying that the two automatic hits you get from rolling a '6' with a "tesla" weapon do hit the flier. It doesn't really cover the tesla arc rule.

Look at it this way, would you think you could arc from Flyer to Flyer? If you say yes, there is no reason it cant link to a Flyer from the ground.

Also, I think noob's point (wrong thread or not) is still valid. Once you activate the effect by rolling that 6, the hits are from then on autiomatic, so are covered by that point.

 IHateNids wrote:
Look at it this way, would you think you could arc from Flyer to Flyer? If you say yes, there is no reason it cant link to a Flyer from the ground.

No.

Also, I think noob's point (wrong thread or not) is still valid. Once you activate the effect by rolling that 6, the hits are from then on autiomatic, so are covered by that point.

They are not automatic, and the shot isn't a snap shot anyway.
This is pretty comparable to Imotekh's lightning.

Yup. It's pretty similar to Imo's lightning. It's an effect which is not itself a shooting attack, but which causes "hits" of a specified Strength and AP. The FAQ ruling on zooming flyers & swooping FMCs says that nothing can hit them that isn't Snap Shooting. So both Tesla Destructor arcs and Imo's lightning are ruled out.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The FAQ ruling on zooming flyers & swooping FMCs says that nothing can hit them that isn't Snap Shooting. So both Tesla Destructor arcs and Imo's lightning are ruled out.

On that trail of thought you couldnt use a Skyfire weapon...

However skyfire weapons have a specific rule set that allow them to shoot fliers with their normal BS if you choose to skyfire and can then only snap fire at ground targets so that is not a valid trail of thought.

Userarm wrote:
However skyfire weapons have a specific rule set that allow them to shoot fliers with their normal BS if you choose to skyfire and can then only snap fire at ground targets so that is not a valid trail of thought.

Unless the same weapon with Skyfire also has Interceptor. Then it could target any unit at normal BS of the firer.

Userarm wrote:
However skyfire weapons have a specific rule set that allow them to shoot fliers with their normal BS if you choose to skyfire and can then only snap fire at ground targets so that is not a valid trail of thought.

That was kinda my point...

 Mannahnin wrote:
Yup. It's pretty similar to Imo's lightning. It's an effect which is not itself a shooting attack, but which causes "hits" of a specified Strength and AP. The FAQ ruling on zooming flyers & swooping FMCs says that nothing can hit them that isn't Snap Shooting. So both Tesla Destructor arcs and Imo's lightning are ruled out.

I thought imo and najal could hit flyers? We have always allowed lightning and tornado to hit flyers, they are not shooting attacks and are not bound by hard to hit.

Judging by the recent Tau faq making seeker missiles hit fliers on a 6 despite saying snapshots from them hit on a 2+ means they are saying the hard to hit part of the fliers rule is sacrosanct and will always (or at least tend to) be ruled in favour of the flier.

In my area, we always allowed it to happen since it needs a six to hit anything. As I can comfortably say the only flyer hurt by the arc is always the night scythe shooting it.

A few thoughts...

1. There are only going to be a few instances when the Arc will even reach the flyer.

2. It's a characteristic of the weapon - not an attack on it's own. It's just a chance for another effect to go off on the roll of a 6.

So, granted it isn't "snap fired" - but it still only hits on a 6 which is the same chance you would have otherwise if it had been snap fired. I don't see why Imho's lightening wouldn't hit it either. This is a case where I'd say the rules in the codex would supersede the BRB on a logical and written level.

The whole case in point being that the Arc/Imho's lightening are NOT shooting attacks but rather special rules/effects in play via two special mechanics.