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Codex: Thousand Sons

Army wide Special Rules:

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Wargear:
Follows the same rules and wargear as Codex: Chaos Space Marines, with the following changes:
Remove Blight Grenades, Chainaxes, Plague Knives, jump packs, Noise Marine Sonic Weapons and Chaos Bikes
Inferno Bolts now also affect combi-bolters, heavy bolters and the boltgun part of combi-weapons.

Also, remove all of the unique wargear except The Scrolls of Magnus or the Dimensional Key.
All other marks, daemonic steeds and icons of chaos, except the ones devoted to Tzeenzch should be discarded.
(1: For models without TDA only. 2: Does not replace a weapon.)
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Psychic Powers:
The psykers in this codex may generate powers from the tables of Pyromancy, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Divination, Biomancy and Tzeenzch(see C:CSM).
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No more than one power may be generated from the discipline of Tzeenzch.
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Thousand Sons Cult descendants: Any non-unique psyker may choose to be a descendant of any ONE of the following Thousand Sons cults:
Pyrae(10pts/model): The character is allowed to re-roll one generated power on the Pyromancy table. A descendant of Pyrae must generate at least one power from this discipline.
Athaean(10pts/model): The character is allowed to re-roll one power on the Telepathy psychic discipline table. An Athaean descendant must generate at least one Telepathy power.
Pavoni(15pts/model): The character may re-roll once, when determining powers on the Biomancy table. The Pavonian descendant must generate at least one Biomancy power.
Corvidae(15pts/model): The character may re-roll once , when determining powers from the table of Divination. They must generate at least one Divination power.
Raptora(10pts/model): The character may re-roll once, when generating a power from the discipline of Telekinesis,and must always generate at least one power from the discipline.
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Force Organization:

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The natives of Planet of the Sorcerers
The thrall covens
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Troops:
Thousand Sons' Thralls(65pts)


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Beastman Native Tribes
Troops:



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Thousand Sons Marine units.
HQ:
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Sorcerer Lord(90pts)

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Chaos Sorcerer(75pts)


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Troops

Rubric Marines(130pts)

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Elites:
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Rubric Terminators(120pts)

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Possessed
Follow exactly the rule, as stated in C:CSM.
Apply the changes to all options, as stated in this codex's wargear section.
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Thousand Sons dreadnought(105pts)

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Mutilators:
Follows exactly the rules, as written in C:CSM. Apply all restrictions as stated in this codex.
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Heavy Support:
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Obliterators
Follows exactly the rules, as written in C:CSM. Apply all restrictions as stated in this codex.
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Thousand Sons Havocs(130pts)

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Defiler, Forgefiend and Maulerfiend
Follows exactly the rules, as written in C:CSM. Apply all restrictions as stated in this codex.
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Chaos Land Raider, -Predator and -Vindicator
Follows exactly the rules, as written in C:CSM. Apply all restrictions as stated in this codex.
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Fast Attack:
Chaos Spawn and Heldrake
Follow exactly the rules, as written in C:CSM. Apply all restrictions as stated in this codex.

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Thousand Sons Chosen Sorcerers(150pts)

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Unique Characters:

Karlsen(150pts)



By: LlamaAgility(AKA, SyndromE)

Seams pretty decent

Why remove the boons of chaos? They would only apply to sorcerers who have nothing to lose, they are immune to the flesh change, not daemonic assension!

To me this looks a bit too much like the chaos codes, when the thousand sons are totally different. For example chosen rubric makes no sense, 'cause you know, you carnt choose dust... I think insted you could have a pyker battle squad kinda thing. If your making your own codex, go all out, dont just change a few things. Like you should make your own special weapons, maybe bring back the badlem staff and the kai gun.

Also remember in the fluff the thousand sons make use of beastmen hoardes, maybe you could enclude them to further change it from the chaos dex.

Thousand sons to me should run like a hunchmen grey knight list. The marines themselves are very elite and powerful, but not the army itself. The army is hoards of chaff augmented by sorcerery with marine back up. 'Cause lets face it, the thousand sons numbers are dwindling, and to lose an enitre army of them would be disaterous in the fluff. but having a squad of them as the hammer to a hoard of beastmen (think ork) augmented by a thrall wizard coven and a deepstriking coven termie unit with lord sounds like the way they would fight to me.

Seems like a pretty well thought out and balanced Codex. I do like the Thousand Sons as well.

When you have 'Compulsion' in the entries, dont you mean 'Composition'? As in the unit composition?

 HerbaciousT wrote:
Seems like a pretty well thought out and balanced Codex. I do like the Thousand Sons as well.

When you have 'Compulsion' in the entries, dont you mean 'Composition'? As in the unit composition?

Yes. For some reason I had thought that's what codices say. I did not bother fixing it any more, as it still pretty much explains the same thing as "composition".

To me this looks a bit too much like the chaos codes, when the thousand sons are totally different. For example chosen rubric makes no sense, 'cause you know, you carnt choose dust...

I added the "chosen rubrics" just to make this codex more diverse with options. This is due it is still a WIP(which I should have indicated in the OP).
For the same reason I do not have added the beastmen.

Also, I did not create my own special weapons, because the TS use pretty much the same stuff as other chaos legions. That is why I put the restrictions.

I WAS thinking, that I could replace special weapons with psychic powers for the Aspiring Sorcerers. Thus, I would remove their ability to roll on the power tables.

Thousand sons to me should run like a hunchmen grey knight list. The marines themselves are very elite and powerful, but not the army itself. The army is hoards of chaff augmented by sorcerery with marine back up. 'Cause lets face it, the thousand sons numbers are dwindling, and to lose an enitre army of them would be disaterous in the fluff. but having a squad of them as the hammer to a hoard of beastmen (think ork) augmented by a thrall wizard coven and a deepstriking coven termie unit with lord sounds like the way they would fight to me.

100% agreed. I was thinking to, and will likely add the beastmen to handle the dirty work. This is how they roll.
I just wanted to post this the way it is now, because it helps me get some feedback and help, and I won't need to re-write the entire codex if something goes wrong.

Okay, I'll bite: I can't see why would a Thousand Sons player pick this list to represent his TS army. And now, lets assume that he wants to win, or at least have fun against all armies, including the top-tier ones.

So for me, the list feels kinda' "immature": it doesn't fix any of the problems a TS player face, and while the new units are nice, they just carry on the flaws what make TS armies generally unplayable.

The list needs spice. Something that would make people feel safe when they face a minmaxed IG/SW/GK/Necron army with their Thousand Sons.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Okay, I'll bite: I can't see why would a Thousand Sons player pick this list to represent his TS army. And now, lets assume that he wants to win, or at least have fun against all armies, including the top-tier ones.

So for me, the list feels kinda' "immature": it doesn't fix any of the problems a TS player face, and while the new units are nice, they just carry on the flaws what make TS armies generally unplayable.

The list needs spice. Something that would make people feel safe when they face a minmaxed IG/SW/GK/Necron army with their Thousand Sons.

Look, I am aware of this. I am currently reading and studying the fluff for the "native" beastmen of their current home world. I'm not saying it would fix any problems, but it will create more options and alternatives.
I am also going to add more options for the thralls and more thrall-type units (possibly).

Bear in mind, that as I previously stated it IS a WIP.

I understand your opinion and I agree upon it, also.

 LlamaAgility wrote:


Look, I am aware of this. I am currently reading and studying the fluff for the "native" beastmen of their current home world. I'm not saying it would fix any problems, but it will create more options and alternatives.
I am also going to add more options for the thralls and more thrall-type units (possibly).

Bear in mind, that as I previously stated it IS a WIP.

I understand your opinion and I agree upon it, also.

Yeah, I got it, but my point is that you should make the basic Thousand Sons stuff viable first and jump to new units after that.

 AtoMaki wrote:


Yeah, I got it, but my point is that you should make the basic Thousand Sons stuff viable first and jump to new units after that.

Mostly, I did. The terminators for example are basic TS stuff.
All I really DID add was the chosen, whom are going to go after I've got some proper options to replace them with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh right, the Havocs too.

Remove the Chosen Rubric, as it doesn't make sense

Add a full "Sorcerer Cabal" Instead, with the brotherhood of psyker rule, as well as ranged psyker attacks that represent the power that a full, grouped psyker choir can pull off.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Remove the Chosen Rubric, as it doesn't make sense

Add a full "Sorcerer Cabal" Instead, with the brotherhood of psyker rule, as well as ranged psyker attacks that represent the power that a full, grouped psyker choir can pull off.

I like the latter idea.
I might also remove the chosen, as Rubric terminators should be just fine.

Another idea for Fast Attack might be Sorcerers riding in chariots or disks, or one leading a full group of screamers.

Also if you need some good advice for cultists/humans of Tzeentch, I suggest reading Tome of Fate for an entire society/planet dedicated to Tzeentch known as the Q'Sal

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Another idea for Fast Attack might be Sorcerers riding in chariots or disks, or one leading a full group of screamers.

Also if you need some good advice for cultists/humans of Tzeentch, I suggest reading Tome of Fate for an entire society/planet dedicated to Tzeentch known as the Q'Sal

A squad riding Discs of Tzeenzch sound so incredibly cool I can't just leave it out.
And thank you on that suggestion for book. I am in the process of reading Prospero Burns, but I haven't got the patience to advance much.

I'd also suggest cutting down the Psykers cost in the base troop, as a mainstay troop it should be taken in context with the army (and it's overcosted even over there..) 20-35 at best. It should've never been near 60.

Maybe even create "Sorcerer Initiates", as thousand sons had a big deal on proper training when it came to sorcerer types.

I like the inclusion of the psyker cults, as for the rules I don't think they should be paying extra for the higher ML as the higher ML don't benefit since you only reroll one power.

Where is the sorcerer lord getting the 5++ from?

If the thrall wizard gets the option for a spell familiar shouldn't the aspiring sorcerers?

 Tarrasq wrote:
I like the inclusion of the psyker cults, as for the rules I don't think they should be paying extra for the higher ML as the higher ML don't benefit since you only reroll one power.

Where is the sorcerer lord getting the 5++ from?

If the thrall wizard gets the option for a spell familiar shouldn't the aspiring sorcerers?

1. I added the cost increase/ML, because you could always generate all powers from one discipline and still re-roll one. Imagine this done with Divination or Biomancy. Too easy to abuse.
2. I didn't think hard enough. I now gave the sorcerer lord an Aura of Dark Glory and put up the cost.
3. I forgot to add them. It is done now.

On a side note, here what I'm likely going to add:
Thrall Wizard Band(a squad of 5-8 thrall wizards led by an aspiring sorcerer. One may be upgraded to Thrall Champion, and gain +1ML or something.)
Thrall Sorceres(comparable to a sanctioned psyker)
Tzaangor mob(besatman mob, a fast expendable, relatively cheap swarming unit)
Minotaur mob(another mob of beastmen, just think Nobs or Ogryns and you'll get the idea)

I'm just not sure 30 pts is worth only a 12.5% increase in chance of getting a power you want if you roll all on the same table for ML3. You go from 50% to 62.5%. Not exactly OP.

The reroll actually benefits lower mastery levels more than higher levels. ML1 goes from 16.67% to 30.56% almost doubling the chance of getting the power you want.

You already pay for the higher ML, no one is going to pay 3 times the cost of an upgrade that gives less of a benefit than if you paid 1/3 the cost.

Also, don't give the Lord the aura of dark glory and don't increase the cost. You can just buy it from the wargear section, you don't want to be forced to buy an aura of dark glory if you're considering the sigil of corruption. Don't make it harder on yourself, just change it to 6++ to represent the MoT on the naked lord.

 Tarrasq wrote:
I'm just not sure 30 pts is worth only a 12.5% increase in chance of getting a power you want if you roll all on the same table for ML3. You go from 50% to 62.5%. Not exactly OP.

The reroll actually benefits lower mastery levels more than higher levels. ML1 goes from 16.67% to 30.56% almost doubling the chance of getting the power you want.

You already pay for the higher ML, no one is going to pay 3 times the cost of an upgrade that gives less of a benefit than if you paid 1/3 the cost.

Also, don't give the Lord the aura of dark glory and don't increase the cost. You can just buy it from the wargear section, you don't want to be forced to buy an aura of dark glory if you're considering the sigil of corruption. Don't make it harder on yourself, just change it to 6++ to represent the MoT on the naked lord.

I'm not making anything harder for myself. I will change pricings a little, however. Maybe if all cults are just the same 10-15pts/model? I guess I'll make it that way.

Well, here is a small update after I've been quite busy.

I haven't decided the price yet, but here you go:
Thousand Sons Beastmen Tribes

Tzaangor mob(Xpts)
Tzaangor tribesman:
WS....BS.....S.....T.....W.....I.....A.....Ld....Sv
...3.....2......4.....3.....1.....3.....2......7....6+

Tzaangor boss
WS....BS.....S.....T.....W.....I.....A.....Ld....Sv
...4.....2.....4.....3.....1.....3.....3......8....6+
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Type:
Infantry(the boss is a character)
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Composition:
14 Tribesmen
1 boss
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Wargear:
(Crude) Autopistol
Unrecognizable Close Combat weapon
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Special Rules:
Mark of Tzeenzch(included in profile)
Fleet
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Options:
May add up to 20 additional tribesmen at Ypts/model.
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The unit may replace their Autopistols with (Crude) Autoguns for no additional cost.
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For each ten models in the squad, one tribesman may switch their Autopistol with:
-Flamer, 5pts/model
-Hvy Stubber, 5pts/model
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The boss may replace his Autopistol with:
-An old Bolt Pistol, 2pts
-A Shotgun, 2pts
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...And/or his close combat weapon with:
-A power weapon 10pts
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One model in the unit may take an icon of flame, 20pts
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Nice and nasty. 3 attacks at str 4 I3 is really good especially with counter attack which means in the first round of any combat there is a good chance for 4 attacks.

My only concern is that they would have to cost too many points. They have better stats then orks boys, come with granades and an invunlnerable, a baad one for sure but it's better then ork shirt saves. For all this they'd have to cost at least 9-10 points. Add mark of tzeentch to ork boys with granades and you get the rough cost. If you want them cheaper (like 7-9 points) you could drop granades, which i wouldnt see them as having anyway, or drop counter attack. And maybe have an upgrade (1-2pts) that gives them rage. (bloodgreed?) Oh, and give them an option for fearless, like the ork 1. Above 7 models and fearless?

At any rate they are a solid start, carnt wait to see alot more

I like the idea. And think Disc Riders definitely need to be included. Maybe replace Chaos Bikers? And have Warp Fire from Chaos Daemons.

What about a special fortification? I'm thinking a Bastion that's floating and deep striking. Then has random movement each turn. Sort of a floating tower.

Special fortifications huh...
So this is where my Tzeenzchian imagination can styrt flying out the roof?

Well, I was thinking about the statlines being a bit to OTT for expendable units, so I removed quite a bit already. Rage is not really logical at this point, as they worship Tzeenzch, but if I was to make the Khornate beastmen, they'd have the option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, I removed the CA and frag grenades are only available for the boss.

I wasn't entirely up on the beastmen, so I used the Codex: Eye of Terror mutants as a template, but they were quite weak so I gave them some buffs.

Would these be in the 6-8pts/model price range now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now added beastmen to codex at 5pts/model and added the "Chosen Sorcerers", who ride Discs of Tzeench.

I'd have to go with the 6-8 pt range, because right now you can have a full unit (35!) of 2 attack models for 180pts. 3 blobs parked on an obj each would be brutal if they had auto guns, becaus with too attacks base and counter charge option, why charge them?

If they where 7 pts they'd come in at 110, to much id say. 6 they'd be 95, this seems good to me and discourges me from just having 4 blobs to sit on objs

The chosen sorcerers need a character, otherwise they look fun. Definitely not shooty.

50 points per model for 5 force weapon attacks on the charge, with two wounds each. That's a lot of hurt. Better mutilators imho. May have to be priced higher.

Though I always thought discs should have a flamer.

 Tarrasq wrote:
The chosen sorcerers need a character, otherwise they look fun. Definitely not shooty.

50 points per model for 5 force weapon attacks on the charge, with two wounds each. That's a lot of hurt. Better mutilators imho. May have to be priced higher.

Though I always thought discs should have a flamer.

Good point the character. When I make the cult-restricted psychic powers, I'll add them to replace special weapons for squads etc.

I'd have to go with the 6-8 pt range, because right now you can have a full unit (35!) of 2 attack models for 180pts. 3 blobs parked on an obj each would be brutal if they had auto guns, becaus with too attacks base and counter charge option, why charge them?

If they where 7 pts they'd come in at 110, to much id say. 6 they'd be 95, this seems good to me and discourges me from just having 4 blobs to sit on objs

IIRC I removed counter attack from them. They are essentially ork boyz, but their weapons aren't assault 2, which means they can't shoot before assaulting, except with pistols. Which are weaker than those of the 6pts/model boyz. I addition, they are T3, have a smaller strength and leadership. If orks are in squads of 11+ they also have Fearless. They are 6pts/model, so the weaker beastmen are 5pts/model.