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We wrote:
I didn't realize CBS news and the Institute for Economic research were loonie left wing conspiracy nuts.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505144_162-57387655/inflation-not-as-low-as-you-think/

If you don't feel like click it says inflation is about 8%. The government has changed the way they calculate inflation a number of times over the years. The current method includes big one time purchases like mortgages and cars which skew the average down. This study omits those and focuses on daily purchases which shows inflation is higher.

Another website http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
does some calculations using the same methodology used in the 80's which gives us about 10%. I am not sure how loonie or left wing that site is though or how accurate their data is as I am not smart enough to double check their work.


TL;DR: the real inflation rate is about 8%-10% according to some experts. The government has changed the method they calculate this over the years to make the number look smaller.

Well, a quick glance shows that fuel costs are what is making CBS' numbers go way out of whack, but fuel can be rather volatile. If you compared to a month ago, fuel inflation has been like 10% per month. This is after having gas that was around $3.60 for a while. The second number comes from a site so politically skewed I wouldn't trust it with the time of day.

1. Fix the pricing.

I've looked around. It is hard to find stuff at the same level of detail for significantly less

You didn't look too hard then.
I can name three companies right off the top of my head, without having to even search, that produce 28mm plastic infantry figures that are of similar quality to GW yet are much lower in price.Google "Perry Miniatures", "Victrix Miniatures", and "Warlord Games". And these are major miniatures companies.. and .in the case of the Perrys, produced by some of the finest sculptors working today.

While the price hikes hurt, it has more to do with the global inflation then to specific policies. Material costs are going up everywhere.

You are aware that since circa 1990 GW prices have risen between 300 and 750% depending on the item, right? The overall rateof inflation in that time is no were near that level. So yes, whiile inflation certainly has had an effect upon GW's pricing model, it pretty clear that much of their price hikes have been simple gouging. As to the costs of materials, you are correct that they are rising. Yet other companies producing a comparable product have managed to keep their pricing model more realistic.

and finally...
.

4. Have you tried email? Or writing a letter? Or writing a White Dwarf article?

Are you aware that White Dwarf is one of the only miniature wargames magazines being published today that is totally in-house? They do not take outside submissions. Likewise, do you REALLY think that GW pays any attention at all to leters and (especially) emails...especially ones that are not 100% positive and non-critical? Be honest now.

TR

To be fair, Warlord Games' minis aren't that highly detailed. They're great and I love them, but they're not that highly detailed. Still, 40 a box for a similar price to the tactical squad? Count me in!

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
To be fair, Warlord Games' minis aren't that highly detailed. They're great and I love them, but they're not that highly detailed. Still, 40 a box for a similar price to the tactical squad? Count me in!

Eh.
We can quible about what "highly detailed" really is. Personally, as a painter, I prefer a miniature with simple well defined lines over the over-cluttered GW miniatures of today. But that is another subect....one I'll have devote a full thread to some day. (or perhaps a podcast if I ever get off my butt and start producing them...) If it helps, the three companies I mention above that produce a product similar in quality to that of GW at a much lower price are listed in decending order of quality: Perry, Victrix, then Warlord.

But yes, the Warlord figures are quite nice. I am about to start painting up a Waffen SS platoon for my WW2 games and most will be Warlord.

TR

Mm, I do like the Warlord miniatures (especially their Celt line and the new Caesarian Romans look epic) and they'll probably be miles easier than GW ones to paint!

Perry, though, have brilliant models.

 Trench-Raider wrote:

We can quible about what "highly detailed" really is. Personally, as a painter, I prefer a miniature with simple well defined lines over the over-cluttered GW miniatures of today. But that is another subect....one I'll have devote a full thread to some day. (or perhaps a podcast if I ever get off my butt and start producing them...)

Oh, please do. If there is one big drawback to the rise of CAD sculpting, it is the growing number of sculptors who think that covering every available surface with an overabundance of easily added "detail" has anything to do with good model design.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Disdainful, same name here as on c&c, wrote up an article on capture and control explaining the 4 easy steps to fixing GW.

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/2013/02/how-to-fix-gw-in-four-easy-steps.html

It is a longer than normal article so I don't want to just cut and paste it in, plus there are quite a few pictures! For those who don't like clicking links that take you out of dakka here is a summary.

1. Fix the pricing. Dis argues that you don't need an across the board price drop, but there are some price fixes that are absolutely necessary.
2. Support organized play. Not just a rt and gt format from GW themselves but 4 times a year well supported campaigns. All similar to how PP runs things.
3. Create relevant and timely FAQ and errata. This is painfully needed.
4. Bring back GW run forums. In order to facilitate an actual relationship with the community that isn't hostile and also supports the creation of the FAQs and Errata a GW run forum really is necessary. It would also help aid in the campaigns and tournament formatting etc.

These are just basic points so I would suggest reading the whole article to get all of Dis' finer points. I wanted to post this here to get feedback from the dakka community specifically since not everyone here reads c&c regularly. This is not a ploy for page views. We make no money off of capture and control, it is purely a project of love for the hobby from those of us who post there. So what do you think?

A great article.

I'd add a few more, but if they would even hit ONE of the points, that would be a start.

Mine would be alittle more along the lines of-
1. Bring back the fun.
2. lighten up on being jackassery.
3.Don't worry so much about ripping people off, then making a quality product.
4. Give me a reason to be excited, again.

But I like the article, and I like the writers style. You sir, are a class act- please have my babies.

 MisterMoon wrote:

1. Indeed, but the official inflation rate is fudged.

The rate of inflation being at 3% is independently researched and peer-reviewed, and is relied on by all industries (including GW). So contrary to what you hear on AM radio, it's academically proven to be at 3%. No one but gold peddling far right loonies are saying that the inflation rate is at 10%.

Next you're telling us how unemployment is easing because official unemployment rates are dropping....

First, nice little article.

But I must say that anyone who write this:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
4. Bring back GW run forums.

Must never have seen what those where.

Next you're telling us how unemployment is easing because official unemployment rates are dropping....

Next you'll be telling us how the moon landing was a hoax because of some link you found on the Internet.

I have been working in business for over 20 years and I've found that peer-reviewed research is the best tool we have at fact-finding. If scholars and academia in a field present a well studied solution that has been experimented on, and re-experimented on by peers, I accept it. When their consensus findings change, I also change with it. Currently using the CPI to determine overall inflation has overwhelming support, and it's widely used and accepted in business. And yes, to answer your question, we've had to increase my head count at my company due to an improved economy. I've also found that good candidates have multiple offers and it's competitive to find good talent. This wasn't the case last year. So yes, unemployment is easing.

Having said that, there are other tools for other more volatile industries. It's also not fair just to slam down 3% annual inflation on GW, and call them out if they are raising their prices higher than that. There are endless reasons for a company to raise prices. In addition the 3% includes everything from sweeping compound to enriched uranium. The CBS article provides a micro look which might be applicable to some industries. Hell it might be applicable to GW in some small way, but to say it challenges to conventional wisdom of an annual inflation rate over 3%, which is what was posted, is absurd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1. I see why you need FAQ's given you inability to argue a point without getting angry.

Not angry, but I can read your snarky tone. So don't sit back and cry about me being "angry."

2. Warhammer World runs plenty of events, tournaments and campaigns.

Warhammer tournaments are a shadow of their former self? Did you read the article?

3. And will you obsess for a year over a game of soldiers in these other games?

Obsess is a strong word, but good job at hyperbole on my complaint. But, in other games I've not found myself waiting nearly as long.

4. Have you tried email? Or writing a letter? Or writing a White Dwarf article?

What's wrong with the second decade of the 21st century and fully capitalizing on the benefits of an internet community? Writing a letter? Should I use a quill? (How's that for hyperbole) At any event I have found that GW, as a gaming company does not like to have the same relationship with it's fans like other gaming companies. This is one example.

Herzlos wrote:
It's been true to a point though, GW veterans have historically paid pretty much anything for GW stuff, either from shelves, special releases or FW things.

Well of course the GW veterans do, that's what makes them veterans, the fact they are still there after all these years. But with each price rise, how many veterans stay on compared to how many don't. You mention the fact that you can get limited/OOP models on ebay for many times their original price, true, but you can also get entire armies ranging from poor to average paint jobs on ebay for a fraction of the price. My FLGS trades used/painted GW stuff and every few weeks you see an entire army in various states of assembled/painted in the display case, more than likely because someone has quit and traded in their army, which the GW veterans can now pick up for a fraction of the price compared to new models.

Though personally, price is only half the equation with me, what they've done to the rules for both 40k and Fantasy over the years has driven me away from buying stuff far more than anything else. Granted I do still buy stuff, but mostly 2nd hand or 1 offs because I want to paint something, so GW sure isn't making much off me these past years.

At any event I have found that GW, as a gaming company does not like to have the same relationship with it's fans like other gaming companies. This is one example.

Given that I have done a little bit of writing in the miniature gaming industry, I can speak to this. Most of today's gaming companies use the communcation technology of today's world to communicate with their customers and pride themselves on being accessable. The two companies I have written for are fairly typical. Iron Ivan Games is not a good example though, as they are a tiny hole in the wall operation run by three gamers and high three digit circulation numbers on most of their products. Of course an outfit like that is going to have a close relationship with their customers. But I have also written for Ambush Alley, which is a much larger and more established company with worldwide distribution. (the fact that Osprey has been their publisher on their latest projects is a big reason for that) AA runs a very active web forum on which both the owners and employees of the company and the product authors are frequent contributors. If you go to their forum with a rules or design question, in short order you will get a reply often by the very person who wrote the material you are inquiring about. Likewise, we are encouraged to go to other web forums and to be accessable when questions come up. I'm a regular over at TMP for instance and often field questions about "Bush Wars" on their modern gaming sub-forum.

Contrast this with GW's "hands off" policy when dealing with their customers. The closest you will come to interacting with GW's writing staff if the all-too infrequent FAQ or a self-serving article in their propaganda rag (aka White Dwarf). GW could take a clue from these smaller more customer-friendly game companies in how they interact with their customers and using the various mediums of communcation in the modern world. The smaller, more involved companies treat their customers like a valued partner in their busines, while GW treat their as if they were a nusance.

TR

 Trench-Raider wrote:

(price decreases are) Plausible on certain items, but some are sitting just right at the moment

Like what?
I can't think of a single item in the GW catalog that is in keeping with industry norm on pricing.
...
...

The thing is, GW are not in the tabletop wargames industry, they are the monopoly in the Warhammer industry. Theyc an set whatever price they like as long as people want to buy Warhammer products.

The thing is, GW are not in the tabletop wargames industry, they are the monopoly in the Warhammer industry

Nonsense.
They might like to market themselves as being a stand alone "GW hobby", but the fact of the matter is that Warhammer games are but one genre of the larger tabletop wargaming hobby. They are part of a much larger hobby that existed long before they came along and will contiue to be long after they finally shut up shop.

And yes, their pricing in not in keeping with the norm for similar products in that industry. Sadly, they have been a bad influence on several other companies as far as pricing and business model goes. But the fact remains that they are the exception rather than the rule.

Theyc an set whatever price they like as long as people want to buy Warhammer products.

True.
And that's the main cause of the problem: we keep buying their products. A lot of people got offended when GW boasted on their Investor Relations site that their customer base was "price insensitive", but it's true. The kiddies that spend their alowance money on Warhammer figures that are the primary target audience of GW have no real concept of the worth of money after all. But GW will keep pushing the price envelope until one day they finally put themselves out of busness.

TR

The problem is Killkrazy the pricing has run out of even GWs control.

They are no longer hiking the prices to maximize profit,(When they actually had control of the pricing.)
But now NEED to keep increasing prices to offset falling sales volume.
And the higher the prices the higher the drop off in sales volume....

The only way for GW to get control back would be a massive change in current operating procedures...

 Kilkrazy wrote:

The thing is, GW are not in the tabletop wargames industry, they are the monopoly in the Warhammer industry. Theyc an set whatever price they like as long as people want to buy Warhammer products.

A monopoly requires no meaningful alternatives and that's just not the case here. More and more people are finding out about alternatives, even those suitable for use with 40k and WFB.

Also, the point of being a monopolistic structure is the ability to price at a higher point than where supply and demand would normally allow. But if you look at GW's yearly revenue and factor in their price increases, they're simply not getting the benefit a monopoly should be expected to have.

They're basically not a monopoly.

 MisterMoon wrote:

Next you're telling us how unemployment is easing because official unemployment rates are dropping....

Next you'll be telling us how the moon landing was a hoax because of some link you found on the Internet.

I have been working in business for over 20 years and I've found that peer-reviewed research is the best tool we have at fact-finding. If scholars and academia in a field present a well studied solution that has been experimented on, and re-experimented on by peers, I accept it. When their consensus findings change, I also change with it. Currently using the CPI to determine overall inflation has overwhelming support, and it's widely used and accepted in business.

Rubbish. CPI is not a product of "peer-reviewed academic study". It's an average calculated from various sub-categories, which are selected rather arbitrarily, and then weighted into overall index, again by quite arbitrary process. Now, I am not saying there is active conspiracy to fudge the numbers, but clearly the process leaves lot of room for that if wanted. As for unemployment rate, official rates are based on number of people with unemployed status according to various ILO criteria. It is well known that governments around the world "game" the numbers. One popular method is to offer jobless "re-education", put them on some courses so they are no longer "seeking for job" and voilá! unemployment eases!

 Trench-Raider wrote:

True.
And that's the main cause of the problem: we keep buying their products. A lot of people got offended when GW boasted on their Investor Relations site that their customer base was "price insensitive", but it's true. The kiddies that spend their alowance money on Warhammer figures that are the primary target audience of GW have no real concept of the worth of money after all. But GW will keep pushing the price envelope until one day they finally put themselves out of busness.

TR

The thing is, I don't think that's true at all. Yes, if you read a forum you may get that impression and if you talk to the GW veterans you'll get that impression because they are the ones who have endured the price and continue to play. But beyond that, you have the people who have avoided starting the hobby because the price was too high and people who have quit and no longer frequent the stores and forums to know about them.

I know for me and my friends, we are highly price sensitive. I'm been in the hobby since I was about 10 or 11. Back then, I bought models with my pocket money earned from chores and such, so I was highly price sensitive and if it were much higher I would not have played, since I was on my limit of what I could afford back then. These days I'm often put off by prices and you hear story after story of people who wanted to buy something but didn't because of the price. One of my mates who actually got me in to the hobby back in school when we were both about 10yo, he quit as a teenager for other random reasons and at times has considered taking it up again and has been put off by prices. On more than one occasion I've heard him say he walked in to a GW shop, got hassled by the staff for several minutes, finally shook them off and looked at the models, saw the prices and left. Another friend who is interested in wargaming and I've been trying to get him in to the hobby was planning on starting a Fantasy army but for the past few years has been unable to justify the price (we went through and added up the cost of an entire army and he decided he couldn't waste the money), now he's started Warmachine instead.

Just because GW say they're price insensitive and just because you see kiddies tugging on Mummy's arm to get them to buy stuff doesn't mean it's true of the wider audience. GW are obviously going to be biased in saying their customers are price insensitive, so that their investors can feel like GW are making the right choice in raising prices which will get them more money, instead of the investors being worried they're pricing the customers out of the hobby and thus getting them less money.

Backfire wrote:

 MisterMoon wrote:

Next you're telling us how unemployment is easing because official unemployment rates are dropping....

Next you'll be telling us how the moon landing was a hoax because of some link you found on the Internet.

I have been working in business for over 20 years and I've found that peer-reviewed research is the best tool we have at fact-finding. If scholars and academia in a field present a well studied solution that has been experimented on, and re-experimented on by peers, I accept it. When their consensus findings change, I also change with it. Currently using the CPI to determine overall inflation has overwhelming support, and it's widely used and accepted in business.

Rubbish. CPI is not a product of "peer-reviewed academic study". It's an average calculated from various sub-categories, which are selected rather arbitrarily, and then weighted into overall index, again by quite arbitrary process. Now, I am not saying there is active conspiracy to fudge the numbers, but clearly the process leaves lot of room for that if wanted. As for unemployment rate, official rates are based on number of people with unemployed status according to various ILO criteria. It is well known that governments around the world "game" the numbers. One popular method is to offer jobless "re-education", put them on some courses so they are no longer "seeking for job" and voilá! unemployment eases!

Also the way the CPI is calculated has been changed, which is the point of the second link I provided. If we were to calculate the CPI like we did in the 80's inflation is much higher today. While that ite may be politically biased the numbers don't lie. And like I provided, the first link i a non politically biased and credible source that you completely ignore. It is taking way more into account than gas prices.

Unemployment in measured in several several ways U1-U6 I believe. The official number, the U3 is 7.8% pretty high no matter what you believe. However if you look at the more meaningful number the picture is even worse.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

I am done arguing this topic though because you can't argue with Obama fans.

As to the OP, there is nothing wrong with GW they are making money which is there goal, so there is nothing to "fix." Share holders are happy so nothing will change.

Now a more accurate topic should be how to improve GW or How to improve GW sales or How to Improve GW's relations with its Customers. Some guy writing a blog talking about how to fix GW is nonsensical and all this is, is yet again, another whine about GW prices thread because people want to buy more models than they can afford.

 agustin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

The thing is, GW are not in the tabletop wargames industry, they are the monopoly in the Warhammer industry. Theyc an set whatever price they like as long as people want to buy Warhammer products.

A monopoly requires no meaningful alternatives and that's just not the case here. More and more people are finding out about alternatives, even those suitable for use with 40k and WFB.

Also, the point of being a monopolistic structure is the ability to price at a higher point than where supply and demand would normally allow. But if you look at GW's yearly revenue and factor in their price increases, they're simply not getting the benefit a monopoly should be expected to have.

They're basically not a monopoly.

I don't think anyone believes they are a monopoly, but they definitely act and price as if they are, and to a fair extent that's true; a large number of gamers are completely unaware of any alternatives, or have been lead to believe that the alternatives are cheap knock-offs of GW.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/2013/02/how-to-fix-gw-in-four-easy-steps.html

-.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

 agustin wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

The thing is, GW are not in the tabletop wargames industry, they are the monopoly in the Warhammer industry. Theyc an set whatever price they like as long as people want to buy Warhammer products.

A monopoly requires no meaningful alternatives and that's just not the case here. More and more people are finding out about alternatives, even those suitable for use with 40k and WFB.

Also, the point of being a monopolistic structure is the ability to price at a higher point than where supply and demand would normally allow. But if you look at GW's yearly revenue and factor in their price increases, they're simply not getting the benefit a monopoly should be expected to have.

They're basically not a monopoly.

False, a legal monopoly in the UK is when a company has more than 25% of the market. A market may still exist even when there are other major players - the Supermarket industry is one of them.

If we think of it like that, then GW probably has a monopoly. They have also acted like a monopoly. My Economics IGCSE textbook states that thes ha monopoly:
- High Barriers of Entry - competition is discouraged by the big firm in order to protect their interests. This happens, if you think about it: it's quite difficult to find decent scupltors and mould-makers. Having said that, it's probably easier now than it was a few years ago, but unlike some industries where I can start up immediately, with wargaming I need to produce rules and miniatures and sell them at a decent price. The prices will have to be low, otherwise why would anyone buy from me when they can go to GW or Privateer Press and buy better miniatures for the same price or less?
- Unique Product - a company has an unusual product and there's not one really like it. GW have unique rules and worlds which may or may not be beaten by other companies. Regardless, the rules are fairly straight foward compared to other company's rules. Also, they operate stores, the only major Wargaming company that does.
- Control over price - the company can control the price they charge. GW, as we have all pointed out, do this.
- High research and development budgets - companies, due to their large size, can invest heavily into R&D for their products. GW do this very well. Finecast springs to mind, but also kits like the Tactical Marines probably were at the time very revolutionary.
- International competitiveness - companies who operate effectively domestically probably can operate well in foreign markets. GW, being British, have done mighty well for themseves in the global market.
- Higher Prices - because they're the sole company or the largest provider of whatever industry they operate in, they can charge higher prices and people will still buy the products. Guess what GW do? Though they may be losing customers.
- Restricted choice - as you outcompete your rivals, you push them out of the market. In the UK, most would play a GW game because of the prevalence of GW stores. Elsewhere, this doesn't happen so much, but most people do play GW games or at least have some GW models if they wargame.
- Lack of innovation - if you're the largest company in the market, why innovate? This could be said about GW - they only just released eBooks for the codi, and they're badly priced. They don't like the digital age, I think.

So GW do show the traits of having a monopoly and acting like a monopolisers, according to my IGCSE Economics textbook written by Rob Jones.

 pixelpusher wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/2013/02/how-to-fix-gw-in-four-easy-steps.html

-.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Perhaps you'd like to clarify that rather than just troll?

If we could please endeavour to make our points in a somewhat less trolly fashion then the discussion will progress in a much smoother and rewarding fashion for all concerned.

Thanks.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 pixelpusher wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/2013/02/how-to-fix-gw-in-four-easy-steps.html

-.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Perhaps you'd like to clarify that rather than just troll?

Yeah, sure.
This guy is so far out of his lane that it's ridiculous. Or did my copy of Dark Vengeance not come with the various MBA degrees everyone else with simple solutions to Games Workshops (percieved) problems have? The barista at my local coffee shop probably has just as much insight in how you run a large corporation as this guy has.

The blog post is basically just preaching to the choir, re-iterating opinions of profilic posters on The FFForums. If it's the church choir of the Peoples Temple or not I leave up for discussion.

Also the way the CPI is calculated has been changed, which is the point of the second link I provided. While it may be politically biased the numbers don't lie.

What's wrong with broad consensus opinion on research changing from 30 years ago? I'm sure glad we have better gas mileage and better computers too. You can arrange number to tell any sort of lie imaginable. Lets see how their findings fair in peer-reviewed journals, and not on some quack website. For the time being we rely heavily on the the idea that the average rate of inflation is 3%. If a model presents itself many years from now that can challenge it, so be it. But for now, any idea of a 10% inflation rate is radical talk at best.

If we were to calculate the CPI like we did in the 80's inflation is much higher today. While that ite may be politically biased the numbers don't lie. And like I provided, the first link i a non politically biased and credible source that you completely ignore. It is taking way more into account than gas prices.

It's one source, whether its a "non-political" or not, it's just one, it tries to toss out years of economic research with just ONE report.

Unemployment is measured in several several ways U1-U6 I believe. The official number, the U3 is 7.8% pretty high no matter what you believe. However if you look at the more meaningful number the picture is even worse

.
7.8 is better than 12+ which is what it was, so yes, unemployment is easing. And what is the more meaningful number to you? The one broadly accepted, or the one most applicable to your political interests?

I am done arguing this topic though because you can't argue with Obama fans.

Say what?! This reactionary zero to 60 false dichotomy logic further proves you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm done arguing with you because you're ignorant of anything outside your little bubble.

As to the OP, there is nothing wrong with GW they are making money which is there goal, so there is nothing to "fix." Share holders are happy so nothing will change.

Unless the customers are revolting to their prices.

Now a more accurate topic should be how to improve GW or How to improve GW sales or How to Improve GW's relations with its Customers.

I think this link the OP gave addressed these very things!

Some guy writing a blog talking about how to fix GW is nonsensical and all this is, is yet again, another whine about GW prices thread because people want to buy more models than they can afford.

You obviously didn't read it.

 pixelpusher wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

 pixelpusher wrote:

 OverwatchCNC wrote:

http://www.captureandcontrol.com/2013/02/how-to-fix-gw-in-four-easy-steps.html

-.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Perhaps you'd like to clarify that rather than just troll?

Yeah, sure.
This guy is so far out of his lane that it's ridiculous. Or did my copy of Dark Vengeance not come with the various MBA degrees everyone else with simple solutions to Games Workshops (percieved) problems have? The barista at my local coffee shop probably has just as much insight in how you run a large corporation as this guy has.

The blog post is basically just preaching to the choir, re-iterating opinions of profilic posters on The FFForums. If it's the church choir of the Peoples Temple or not I leave up for discussion.

Prolific posters? By whose definition? Post count? Tournament wins? Years in the game? Number of successfully closed threads?

I get it, you believe GW has no problems, they are simply perceived by those of us who do see them and anyone who comments on those perceived problems is out of their league. If you are going to require specific credentials for the right to post things on an internet forum or blog you're going to have a rough time on the internet. The idea that only those "qualified" to comment may comment is an oppressive, and often opposition based, ideology.

Back on topic.

A lot of interesting thoughts in here on the article, and thanks to those who read it before commenting I personally don't think a whole reboot of GW forums would be necessary but if GW had a rep on each of the major Forums who would weigh in on the RAW arguments in the YMDC section it would be a huge help. Obviously this would increase the work load of the MODS as they would have to keep a lot of the trolling at bay but over time I think, the Dakka community at least, would come to accept and appreciate the presence of an actual and official GW rep on the Forums. It would be easier than moderating and creating their own forums.

Rubbish. CPI is not a product of "peer-reviewed academic study". It's an average calculated from various sub-categories, which are selected rather arbitrarily, and then weighted into overall index, again by quite arbitrary process.

Arbitrary? So, says you. So you don't think any sort of academic, and peer reviewed criticism went into selecting this current model?

Now, I am not saying there is active conspiracy to fudge the numbers, but clearly the process leaves lot of room for that if wanted.

Right, and the people that study this sort of thing, PhD Economists from around the world left in "arbitrary wiggle room." I doubt that.

As for unemployment rate, official rates are based on number of people with unemployed status according to various ILO criteria. It is well known that governments around the world "game" the numbers.

Academia and independent researchers also study unemployment and their consensus peer-reviewed opinion is available and is compared to government studies. You'll find that their models show unemployment is falling, and no clear gaming of the system conspiracy theory. But I'm sure you'll find a link from a fringe site that says otherwise.

One popular method is to offer jobless "re-education", put them on some courses so they are no longer "seeking for job" and voilá! unemployment eases!

Again, along the same lines, researchers are aware of this and have modeled for it accordingly. You're trying to oversimplify a rather complex model.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

- High Barriers of Entry

It's never been easier to get a miniature made. The internet can supply a new producer with contact with artists, sculptors, contract casters, e-stores, and even funding from places like KS and Indiegogo.

- competition is discouraged by the big firm in order to protect their interests.

GW has chosen to pretend the rest of the industry doesn't exist. They don't do anything to directly compete with anyone. They don't go to Gencon and try to get people interested in their stuff. They don't do anything to compete outside of the UK (where they actually go to shows like Salute and have stores to compete all over the place). I'd say instead of competing, they've been giving away market share. Price hikes make room for smaller producers to become more profitable and numerous as margins improve.

it's quite difficult to find decent scupltors and mould-makers.

I'd say it's never been simpler. There are all sorts of skilled 3d modellers and sculptors out there and many industry veterans are more than willing to freelance. There are also lots of casting companies that have openings all the time.

- Unique Product

GW's stuff is derivative and easy to substitute. Even makers who originally started as accessory bitz makers for GW kits are doing great with full kits that make power armoured troopers with big shoulder pads.

Control over price - the company can control the price they charge. GW, as we have all pointed out, do this.

Definitely this. The Rest of World embargo for UK and EU sellers is a great example of it. Agree here for sure.

- High research and development budgets - companies, due to their large size, can invest heavily into R&D for their products. GW do this very well. Finecast springs to mind, but also kits like the Tactical Marines probably were at the time very revolutionary.

Except the tooling company that got GW there (Renendra) is now open to other companies and more and more are joining GW in producing plastics all the time. GW's management also keeps priding themselves on their cost cutting, so I'm guessing very little goes into more R&D these days. This might have been true five years ago, but not today.

- International competitiveness - companies who operate effectively domestically probably can operate well in foreign markets. GW, being British, have done mighty well for themseves in the global market.

They've largely failed to port their corporate store model to North America. And now the internet can connect miniature makers with interested customers on separate continents with ease.

Higher Prices - because they're the sole company or the largest provider of whatever industry they operate in, they can charge higher prices and people will still buy the products. Guess what GW do? Though they may be losing customers.

Agree here, but if they're losing customers, then they are not getting the benefit of being a monopoly in terms of price.

Restricted choice

We've never had a greater variety of games and miniatures to chose from as we do today.

Lack of innovation - if you're the largest company in the market, why innovate? This could be said about GW - they only just released eBooks for the codi, and they're badly priced. They don't like the digital age, I think.

It's sort of the flip side to the R&D one, isn't it? I agree though-- GW hasn't done any real innovation in quite some time.

So GW do show the traits of having a monopoly and acting like a monopolisers, according to my IGCSE Economics textbook written by Rob Jones.

I think they used to be monopolistic, but gave away so much of their market share that they now don't really count as one. Even if they continue to behave as if they are one in their own minds. But carrying out practices you can get away with when you are a monopoly when you aren't one is probably not good for long term success.

 Trench-Raider wrote:

You didn't look too hard then.
I can name three companies right off the top of my head, without having to even search, that produce 28mm plastic infantry figures that are of similar quality to GW yet are much lower in price.Google "Perry Miniatures", "Victrix Miniatures", and "Warlord Games". And these are major miniatures companies.. and .in the case of the Perrys, produced by some of the finest sculptors working today.

You bring up a great point here. As I mentioned in the thread on GW pricing, I recently sold off my last GW army and have been moving into WWII gaming. The price difference between fantasy/sci-fi and historicals is almost laughable.

A few examples of 28mm Infantry (prices in US dollars):

GW Cadian Shock Troops - 10/box plastic: $29.00 ($2.90/model)
GW Tactical Space Marines - 10/box plastic: $37.25 ($3.73/model)

Warlord American Infantry - 25/box plastic: $36.00 ($1.44/model)
BlackTree US Para Platoon - 30/box metal: $46.79 ($1.55/model)
Foundry German Infantry - 8/pack metal: $18.68 ($2.33/model)
Artizan Waffen SS Infantry - 26/box metal: $46.54 ($1.79/model)

And an example of tanks:

GW Chimera (plastic): $37.25
Warlord M4A3 76mm Sherman (resin/metal): $35.00
Tamiya 1/48 (about 32mm) M4 Sherman (plastic): $26.99

GW Leman Russ (plastic): $49.50
Warlord King Tiger w/Zimmerit (resin/metal): $41.00
Tamiya 1/48 Tiger 1E (plastic): $29.99

Perhaps Historicals are much cheaper because of competition (there is a lot in historicals), but considering many of them are smaller companies and in many cases using resin/metal, which are more expensive than plastic, they shouldn't be, on average, half the price or more of a basic GW trooper. GW should, more than any other company, have the power of scale of manufacturing. The Wal-Mart effect, so to speak. In other words, they should not only have some of the best models in the business, but also some of the cheapest. This is what creates market power and domination.

So, to the thread topic, if I ran the company, I would test this on a small scale then, if it works, roll it out worldwide. I would seek to own the market again, not keep my collective head up my a** about my perceived belief I own the market. I would focus on not only getting new players in, but keeping players long term. Long term players tend to always buy as they collect multiple armies. Currently, they are making it so that when existing hobbyists are reaching the "collect a new army" stage, they are instead taking that money to other game systems (Warmahordes, Flames of War, Bolt Action, Infinity - the list goes on), and no only are you not capturing that revenue - you are losing players to other companies and therefore the exit from GW becomes so much less painless.

I am of the belief that if GW wasn't so arrogant and removed from real-life, and had acted appropriately, they could have shut down Warmahordes before it really ever got going. Flames of War could have been mitigated a little (but some still prefer historicals, so they wouldn't have mattered). More support for Necromunda and Mordheim would have also mitigated the plethora of skirmish games eating into the market.

Next, I'd focus on GW becoming channel friendly again. They should treat their LGS's like gold (like they once did) and fix their issues with the Oceania region.

Third, get rid of the finecrap - the market in general doesn't like it. Move to resin, all plastic or back to metal, but get rid of the stuff.

Fourth, move the company into the current millienia and realize there is this thing called the internet and start utilizing to full effect. Let online stores post pictures again, etc.

Fifth, change game design from being a marketing department for toys into a game studio again. Balance and adjust the game to be fair and fun regardless o the armies people want to play.

Anyway, my thoughts on things.