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So I was cleaning out my basement during this week, and I found the starter set with Kreoss and a few Warjacks and a unit of six Temple Flameguard. As a warning ahead, I have only played one game of Warmachine when it first game out so I am not familiar with the rules and that. I am thinking of giving it another go so should I exchange the metal models for the plastic ones I believe they have and get the rulebook or keep them and build from there, getting the rulebook and that?

Currently I am playing Warhammer 40,000 and Fantasy, but I want to give a couple more systems a try along with them. Warmachine and Flames of War is what seem to be the most interesting, but what do you think of my set-up of sorts?

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
So I was cleaning out my basement during this week, and I found the starter set with Kreoss and a few Warjacks and a unit of six Temple Flameguard. As a warning ahead, I have only played one game of Warmachine when it first game out so I am not familiar with the rules and that. I am thinking of giving it another go so should I exchange the metal models for the plastic ones I believe they have and get the rulebook or keep them and build from there, getting the rulebook and that?

Currently I am playing Warhammer 40,000 and Fantasy, but I want to give a couple more systems a try along with them. Warmachine and Flames of War is what seem to be the most interesting, but what do you think of my set-up of sorts?

Welcome! Protectorate of Menoth is an awesome faction, I'm a bit of a fanboy.

There is no need to exchange the metal models for plastic ones, unless you're one of those folks who has the hate-on for metal models (in which case this might not be the greatest game for you, most of the range is metal).

The first thing you're going to want to do is make sure you've got the MkII verison of the cards not MkI. If they look like this: http://www.dankelzahn.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/cardcomparison.jpg (You're just looking at the general format, not the specifics of the numbers or types of damage on them).

You're good! If not look for the MkII Protectorate of Menoth card deck, It'll have all the new cards and then some. Or you can buy them individually from PPs store. Sadly the old cards aren't usable anymore.

As for books, you'll want a copy of Warmachine: Prime - The MkII edition, as that's the current version of the rules. You don't need the "Forces of Warmachine: Protectorate of Menoth" book to play but it can be a good start if you just want to preview what's available in the faction. When you buy models in Warmachine they come with the cards you need to play them, so the books are purely for the Fluff, Painting Guides and getting a look at the stats of models you don't own.

As to models to look at next you'll want the Choir of Menoth and a Vassal of Menoth. Between the start box and them you'll have a great little starter force to learn the game on. The Temple Flameguard are also awesome models that work well in a ton of lists, you can drop them in to get a feel for how units work.

After you've gotten the feel for the game you can expand out more. With the exception of the "Revenger" which is a bit below par everything you have is a faction staple that will serve you well.

Chongara wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
So I was cleaning out my basement during this week, and I found the starter set with Kreoss and a few Warjacks and a unit of six Temple Flameguard. As a warning ahead, I have only played one game of Warmachine when it first game out so I am not familiar with the rules and that. I am thinking of giving it another go so should I exchange the metal models for the plastic ones I believe they have and get the rulebook or keep them and build from there, getting the rulebook and that?

Currently I am playing Warhammer 40,000 and Fantasy, but I want to give a couple more systems a try along with them. Warmachine and Flames of War is what seem to be the most interesting, but what do you think of my set-up of sorts?

Welcome! Protectorate of Menoth is an awesome faction, I'm a bit of a fanboy.

There is no need to exchange the metal models for plastic ones, unless you're one of those folks who has the hate-on for metal models (in which case this might not be the greatest game for you, most of the range is metal).

The first thing you're going to want to do is make sure you've got the MkII verison of the cards not MkI. If they look like this: http://www.dankelzahn.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/cardcomparison.jpg (You're just looking at the general format, not the specifics of the numbers or types of damage on them).

You're good! If not look for the MkII Protectorate of Menoth card deck, It'll have all the new cards and then some. Or you can buy them individually from PPs store. Sadly the old cards aren't usable anymore.

As for books, you'll want a copy of Warmachine: Prime - The MkII edition, as that's the current version of the rules. You don't need the "Forces of Warmachine: Protectorate of Menoth" book to play but it can be a good start if you just want to preview what's available in the faction. When you buy models in Warmachine they come with the cards you need to play them, so the books are purely for the Fluff, Painting Guides and getting a look at the stats of models you don't own.

As to models to look at next you'll want the Choir of Menoth and a Vassal of Menoth. Between the start box and them you'll have a great little starter force to learn the game on. The Temple Flameguard are also awesome models that work well in a ton of lists, you can drop them in to get a feel for how units work.

After you've gotten the feel for the game you can expand out more. With the exception of the "Revenger" which is a bit below par everything you have is a faction staple that will serve you well.

Thank you, granted I am not going to play this or Flames of War as much since the nearest store is about an hour drive from where I live but I feel like expanding out a bit. As for the metal models, they are not that big of an issue, until like is becomes very intricate to build then I might have problems with it to build but nothing a good pinning of it can do! ^_^ Once I get a job started up again, I will most likely go to that store and see who plays and that, along with most of the stuff online. Thank you, you have given me a good start to the right direction it seems.

You may also want to look at this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Protectorate_of_Menoth

The MKII cards for the Protectorate Battle Box (Kreoss, Crusader, Revenger, Repenter) can be found and downloaded (legally) here: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game (fixed link)

For the time being you can botch together a MKII card for the Temple Flameguard by making the following modifications to your MKI card. Ignore the stat entry for the unit leader, all models in the unit have the same stats, all models in the unit are ARM 13 and CMD 8. The unit you have (6 models) costs 4 points to field, you can add 4 additional models (10 total) for +2 points (6 points total).

 George Spiggott wrote:
The MKII cards for the Protectorate Battle Box (Kreoss, Crusader, Revenger, Repenter) can be found and downloaded (legally) here: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game

Oh wow, that's cool. I wasn't aware of that link. It looks like you've got an extra "." trailing at the end of the link though, which breaks it. I've corrected it in the above quote.

 George Spiggott wrote:
The MKII cards for the Protectorate Battle Box (Kreoss, Crusader, Revenger, Repenter) can be found and downloaded (legally) here: http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game (fixed link)

For the time being you can botch together a MKII card for the Temple Flameguard by making the following modifications to your MKI card. Ignore the stat entry for the unit leader, all models in the unit have the same stats, all models in the unit are ARM 13 and CMD 8. The unit you have (6 models) costs 4 points to field, you can add 4 additional models (10 total) for +2 points (6 points total).

Alright, thank you! This link at does give you a quickstart to the rules as well so I can start-up at least with something until I can get the main rulebook.

I wonder if the two player starter may be a good purchase for you rather than Prime MkII. I suppose it depends on how Ebay savvy you are for disposing of the Khador bits.

You may also want to check out http://www.forwardkommander.com/ for building army lists.

 George Spiggott wrote:
I wonder if the two player starter may be a good purchase for you rather than Prime MkII. I suppose it depends on how Ebay savvy you are for disposing of the Khador bits.

You may also want to check out http://www.forwardkommander.com/ for building army lists.

Probably not. There isn't much do with a 2nd Kreoss, 2nd Revenger for anyone and a 2nd Crusader is probably a bit narrow for a new player. I'm not sure if the value is there in just the Cinerators and Vanquisher. Especially since the Cinerators are so mediocre. It's a great starting point for someone with no models, but I think it loses value as a later purchase.

If it's just about getting one's hands on the rulebook people see the miniature one online for cheap.

 George Spiggott wrote:
I wonder if the two player starter may be a good purchase for you rather than Prime MkII. I suppose it depends on how Ebay savvy you are for disposing of the Khador bits.

You may also want to check out http://www.forwardkommander.com/ for building army lists.

Maybe I might not get it, since I have veryfew other friends that are into the Wargaming hobby in general. (Sad fact I know). And I might have to use this website a little until I get used to the points systems, which is way different than the Warhammer systems but not that hard to figure out once I get the hang of it.

Just one clarification about the faction deck. It only includes cards for models released in mark 1, so any new models released since then (there were a few in the faction book such as Vindictus and the Templar IIRC, and the releases from wrath/colossals) won't have cards.

I second the choir/vassal, as that makes a solid list for 15 points. I would also pick up the TFG UA and possibly max the TFG since you already have the min unit.

It covers all minis in the faction book. It won't have models from Wrath or Collossals

 Surtur wrote:
It covers all minis in the faction book. It won't have models from Wrath or Collossals

No it doesn't. It lacks the Templar and everything else that was a new addition in Mk. 2.

I stand corrected.

BTNeophyte wrote:
Just one clarification about the faction deck. It only includes cards for models released in mark 1, so any new models released since then (there were a few in the faction book such as Vindictus and the Templar IIRC, and the releases from wrath/colossals) won't have cards.

I second the choir/vassal, as that makes a solid list for 15 points. I would also pick up the TFG UA and possibly max the TFG since you already have the min unit.

Well that is a slight bummer but I do guess that it makes a bit of sense.

Also, it would be wise to get the choir/vassal for now and wait to field the TFG since I can only tale a min of them with the starter set of Menoth I have? (sorry, my knowledge is very limitedf Warmachine's list-building, which seems to be a little less direct than that of the Warhammer systems. :/ )

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

BTNeophyte wrote:
Just one clarification about the faction deck. It only includes cards for models released in mark 1, so any new models released since then (there were a few in the faction book such as Vindictus and the Templar IIRC, and the releases from wrath/colossals) won't have cards.

I second the choir/vassal, as that makes a solid list for 15 points. I would also pick up the TFG UA and possibly max the TFG since you already have the min unit.

Well that is a slight bummer but I do guess that it makes a bit of sense.

Also, it would be wise to get the choir/vassal for now and wait to field the TFG since I can only tale a min of them with the starter set of Menoth I have? (sorry, my knowledge is very limitedf Warmachine's list-building, which seems to be a little less direct than that of the Warhammer systems. :/ )

A minimum-sized unit of TFG will fill the purpose just fine the points level you're running. Also just playing with the Choir + Vassal + 'Jacks at a lower points level would do a fine job of giving you the skeleton of the menoth play style.

The options are equally viable. The Minimum Choir + Vassal + Starter Jacks + Kreoss works out to 15pts which is more of a normal "Newbie" points level than 19 (with TFG), so it might be more comfortable just on confirming to standard points sizes.

It's almost impossible to go wrong by taking the TFG. They're one of the widely useful combat units in menoth. That said they're far from mandatory either. They're just a rock-solid first wave option.

Chongara wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

BTNeophyte wrote:
Just one clarification about the faction deck. It only includes cards for models released in mark 1, so any new models released since then (there were a few in the faction book such as Vindictus and the Templar IIRC, and the releases from wrath/colossals) won't have cards.

I second the choir/vassal, as that makes a solid list for 15 points. I would also pick up the TFG UA and possibly max the TFG since you already have the min unit.

Well that is a slight bummer but I do guess that it makes a bit of sense.

Also, it would be wise to get the choir/vassal for now and wait to field the TFG since I can only tale a min of them with the starter set of Menoth I have? (sorry, my knowledge is very limitedf Warmachine's list-building, which seems to be a little less direct than that of the Warhammer systems. :/ )

A minimum-sized unit of TFG will fill the purpose just fine the points level you're running. Also just playing with the Choir + Vassal + 'Jacks at a lower points level would do a fine job of giving you the skeleton of the menoth play style.

The options are equally viable. The Minimum Choir + Vassal + Starter Jacks + Kreoss works out to 15pts which is more of a normal "Newbie" points level than 19 (with TFG), so it might be more comfortable just on confirming to standard points sizes.

It's almost impossible to go wrong by taking the TFG. They're one of the widely useful combat units in menoth. That said they're far from mandatory either. They're just a rock-solid first wave option.

Alright, once I get a handle of the basics with the caster and Warjacks, I will do something like that due to (from what I have read so far) fact the choir can buff up the units a lot.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

BTNeophyte wrote:
Just one clarification about the faction deck. It only includes cards for models released in mark 1, so any new models released since then (there were a few in the faction book such as Vindictus and the Templar IIRC, and the releases from wrath/colossals) won't have cards.

I second the choir/vassal, as that makes a solid list for 15 points. I would also pick up the TFG UA and possibly max the TFG since you already have the min unit.

Well that is a slight bummer but I do guess that it makes a bit of sense.

Also, it would be wise to get the choir/vassal for now and wait to field the TFG since I can only tale a min of them with the starter set of Menoth I have? (sorry, my knowledge is very limitedf Warmachine's list-building, which seems to be a little less direct than that of the Warhammer systems. :/ )

A minimum-sized unit of TFG will fill the purpose just fine the points level you're running. Also just playing with the Choir + Vassal + 'Jacks at a lower points level would do a fine job of giving you the skeleton of the menoth play style.

The options are equally viable. The Minimum Choir + Vassal + Starter Jacks + Kreoss works out to 15pts which is more of a normal "Newbie" points level than 19 (with TFG), so it might be more comfortable just on confirming to standard points sizes.

It's almost impossible to go wrong by taking the TFG. They're one of the widely useful combat units in menoth. That said they're far from mandatory either. They're just a rock-solid first wave option.

Alright, once I get a handle of the basics with the caster and Warjacks, I will do something like that due to (from what I have read so far) fact the choir can buff up the units a lot.

False-choir cannot buff units, only friendly faction warjacks

BTNeophyte wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

BTNeophyte wrote:
Just one clarification about the faction deck. It only includes cards for models released in mark 1, so any new models released since then (there were a few in the faction book such as Vindictus and the Templar IIRC, and the releases from wrath/colossals) won't have cards.

I second the choir/vassal, as that makes a solid list for 15 points. I would also pick up the TFG UA and possibly max the TFG since you already have the min unit.

Well that is a slight bummer but I do guess that it makes a bit of sense.

Also, it would be wise to get the choir/vassal for now and wait to field the TFG since I can only tale a min of them with the starter set of Menoth I have? (sorry, my knowledge is very limitedf Warmachine's list-building, which seems to be a little less direct than that of the Warhammer systems. :/ )

A minimum-sized unit of TFG will fill the purpose just fine the points level you're running. Also just playing with the Choir + Vassal + 'Jacks at a lower points level would do a fine job of giving you the skeleton of the menoth play style.

The options are equally viable. The Minimum Choir + Vassal + Starter Jacks + Kreoss works out to 15pts which is more of a normal "Newbie" points level than 19 (with TFG), so it might be more comfortable just on confirming to standard points sizes.

It's almost impossible to go wrong by taking the TFG. They're one of the widely useful combat units in menoth. That said they're far from mandatory either. They're just a rock-solid first wave option.

Alright, once I get a handle of the basics with the caster and Warjacks, I will do something like that due to (from what I have read so far) fact the choir can buff up the units a lot.

False-choir cannot buff units, only friendly faction warjacks

Ah alright. Sorry for getting that wrong, my knowledge of this is very limited sadly. :(

BTNeophyte wrote:
(huge quote pyrnamid snipped)


False-choir cannot buff units, only friendly faction warjacks

This is correct. It's important to note that in Warmachine model types and just wording in general is very specific and has explicit meaning. So while it's true the Choir is great at buffing and that in the context of another game you might even casually think of something like a Warjack as "unit" that isn't a generic term. A warjack is a warjack, a unit is a unit.

As to the exact capabilities of the choir, each turn they can do one of three things:

Give warjacks +2 on attack and damage rolls.
Make it so your warjacks cannot be targeted by ranged attacks unless they have the "Magic Weapon" property.
Make it so your warjacks cannot be targeted by spells.

While the two "No Target" abilities are great defensive tech, the Hymn of Battle (+2 attack & damage) amazing. For example with the common MAT of 6 they go from hitting something with DEF 14 about 41% of the time, to hitting it 72% of the time. It skews the curve even more on boosted rolls, the same 'Jack boosting without Hymn of Battle hits DEF 18 about 37% of the time, with it it hits 62% of the time. Hardly a sure thing but anything sitting around DEF 18 is probably going to be in the dirt with just a single hit off POW 20ish hit from a menite 'Jack.

Also, the whole Choir unit must sing the same Hymn. You can have one guy give Battle to one jack and have another guy give Passage. Unlike the closest equivilent, which is Skorne's PGBHs.