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So I've played this guy's ork army a bunch of times at 1500 pts, and lost each time.

His list always includes - minimal troops, 20-40 lootas, 2 dakka jets

Then he swaps between - Nob Bike-Star (powerklaw, anti-mech), 2 Wagons with death rollers, truck with Mega Nobs

I've never seen him play a different list vs me.

Here's my latest Ork-stopping list -

CCS
3x Plasma
Medic
Astropath
Chimera HB ML HS

Veteran 3x Plasma
Chimera HB ML HS

Veteran 3x Plasma
Chimera HB ML HS

Storm Troopers x5
2x Melta

Storm Troopers x5
2x Melta

Leman Russ
Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ
Heavy Flamer

Leman Russ
Heavy Flamer

Vendetta

Vendetta

I think my biggest mistakes in the past have been to give him the Imperial Guard strategy that he wants to beat. He's always played some kind of "death star" anti-mech list, and it's always worked, because I give him a pile of vehicles, he hides everything important under a roof, takes out my quad gun with lootas (and anything else they can see), advances around LOS cover and hits me with jets + whatever else, and usually sends me into a tail-spin.

It's worth trying a different approach.

I'm keeping all my AV12 out of sight, because Lootas love AV12. Another problem, is that if the Lootas don't get them, the Dakka Jets will absolutely get them. So all AV12 will be hidden, ready to spring on incoming orks. I've found that plasma is effective vs bikers and mega nobs.

The Lemans will sit at the back and shoot Lootas for as long as possible. I'm going to space them out as wide as possible, and keep plasma vets nearby for support.

He will target a single Leman and take it down. It will be turn 2, and hopefully I'll be able to counter with my anti-mech. The Vendettas will probably only last a single turn, so hopefully they hit his jets. The Storm Troopers will not last long either, and hopefully they can wreck a wagon, or kill a mega nob.

The rest is up to the remaining Russ tanks and veterans.

Failing points -
very low troop count for the IG
Vendettas will only last 1 turn with lootas
IG goes first = vendettas die before killing ork jets (jets kill the IG troops, game over)
Orks go first = orks are locking up the IG before vendettas and storm troopers arrive

Any suggestions?

Swap a vet squad for a platoon and scatter them around the map in cover?
Replace Storm Troopers with more vets/platoon?
...

Against Orks? I see a distinct lack of large blasts and flamer templates. Your special weapons seem geared up for anti-MEQ or anti-armor, but from the sound of things you're facing mostly infantry and flyers.

I'd change a lot, honestly. Foot Platoons over Vets, probably with an Aegis. The plasma won't do a lot, and the infantry will give you more shots on the ground. Each squad can take a heavy bolter and flamer, and probably combine to make it a tough assault target from flamer overwatch.

I really like Manticores against horde armies. Up to three S10 large blasts gets fun, and they're ordinance to deal with potential Battle Wagons. Alternatively, the Russ Eradicator variant is rarely looked at since it sucks in almost every other situation.

If he runs Dakka Jets, don't bother with flyers at all. You could use Hellhounds or even Scout Sentinels outflanking with heavy flamers. The outflank option has the added bonus of denying him targets until they get a chance to kill something.

And I always suggest Marbo, because surprise demolition charge is always hilarious.

My Advice
1. Infantry platoons over vets for vs horde armies. if you can play blob guardsmen by 3 combining 3 squads each with a flamer or grenade launcher. More Guardsmen = More Flashlights
2. If you choose to play blob Orders are going to be your best friend. FRFSRF ROCKS.
3. Your tanks look good.
4. If you take enough infantry and combined infantry Creed is well worth the investment.
5. if he sticking to cover (like you should be) take something like a hell hound .
6. ALWAYS MARBO
7. Hellfury missiles on one of the Vendettas (maybe)
8. if you really like being annoying then Captain Al' Rahem is professional at it he Outflanks his WHOLE Platoon

If he is sticking with the mega-nobz then you need to stick with some of the plasmaguns to get past the armour saves and toughness; the CCS is probably the right place for them.
However many lootas he is taking you could counter with heavy bolter weapon teams quite effectively, which would also do in his bikes; also with the low AV of the ork jets they can take them on aswell as any autocannons you take.
That does suggest to take an ADL with a quadgun to hide them behind.

The leman russ tanks are good, have you considered losing one going for griffon mortars instead, cheaper and just as good for taking out lots of orks.

The stormtroopers are an expensive waste, get the vendettas down the flanks of any battlewagons to take them out and save the points.

I agree with other comments regarding blobbing guard squads rather than using veterans. The PCS can be used to hide a few plasma weapons and the blob can be padded out with a few heavy weapons to help the lasgun fire. Also a 50 point naked guard squad is good to hold up orks for a turn so you get more firing.

I've never played IG or against IG (still fairly new) but I play orks myself, blast templates and flamers are going to be huge. If your worried bout his mega nobs, take out their trukk, it has low armor and you just have to disable it the nobs themselves in their mega armor slows them giving you a few more turns to shoot them down. Against the bikes, don't let them get close hide behind cover and shoot them down. They are orks they cant aim, we just shoot every bullet downrange possible, orks biggest advantage is melee and raw #'s usualy, if you use templates to cut down on #'s and use firepower to stop their advance (taking out transport and coverage to stop bikes and wagons maybe hide in some buildings or difficult terrain behind a wall)

plus1jeremy wrote:Against Orks? I see a distinct lack of large blasts and flamer templates. Your special weapons seem geared up for anti-MEQ or anti-armor, but from the sound of things you're facing mostly infantry and flyers.

Geared wrote:My Advice
1. Infantry platoons over vets for vs horde armies. if you can play blob guardsmen by 3 combining 3 squads each with a flamer or grenade launcher. More Guardsmen = More Flashlights
2. If you choose to play blob Orders are going to be your best friend. FRFSRF ROCKS.

wazrokk wrote:I've never played IG or against IG (still fairly new) but I play orks myself, blast templates and flamers are going to be huge.

He runs a mech army, not a horde. The only horde is the lootas, and they will always be under a roof, immune to barrage weapons. The death rollers, dakka jets, bikers, and the lootas make it impossible to advance with AV12, so hellhounds are out, and so is artillery. So I take the Lemans to shoot into the buildings. AV14 is too strong for lootas, so I can sit in the open with my middle finger in the air.

I get the part about bringing more infantry and losing the vets. Also the flame throwers, for when the boyz jump out of their wagon. Good ideas, I'll try to switch to an infantry platform. Chimeras are as much a danger to the Guard as they are protection. Though I worry about rollers crushing my guys wholesale. 2 rollers and 2 squads of boys running around in my base is not a fun thought. I guess you're right though, flame will be great to have in that situation.

My experience with this guy's Mega Nobz, is that he can deliver them. Disabling the truck is a fantastic idea, but if he can advance into LOS cover, and then be delivered on turn 2, it's already too late. This is often the case, and I'm shooting everything I have at them, my base falls apart quickly. I once had terrible luck when I shot down the truck as it cruised across the table turn 1 - ramshackle rules caused it to careen out of control, into my men, and explode. Of course the Nobz saved their wounds, but my men were not as lucky and died in the blast. So he was able to cross the table and disembark in a since turn (since the rest was done on my turn). Yeah, luck, but still.

Thank you for your ideas, I'll try to make adjustments.

If he does elite Orks like that, I'd really consider Al'Rahem with a massive outflanking foot blob. Load up on flamers, get SWS with demolition charges, and the PCS can use plasma to crack the tougher nuts.

Your best defense against flyer spam will probably be autocannon HWT. Even that's dubious since they'd be an early target. They could outflank along with the blob to stay off the board for a bit.

Russes are a fine call to fight Lootas. Artillery can still work if they're behind cover. Camo cloaks can up your odds of survival, too.

 Geared wrote:

7. Hellfury missiles on one of the Vendettas (maybe)

^ use that to take out those pesky orks in the buildings

I'm sure IG has a unit simular to the ork def dread or someother powerhouse for melee... if they are running up on you with a meganobz and def rollers, get off the ground into some buildings and shoot at them from there so def rolelrs cant hit you. then i would get some melee powerhouses because meganobz with PK's almost always attack last... kil them before they can swing and they will be useless. also i dont know if this is true with IG but i know for orks, flamers can double as a powerweapon in melee, if you cant take out his trukk fast enough, then don't. try and take out his loota's first turn, lootas are going to be trying to laydown supresive fire keep you from moving out of cover and being mobile, kill his lootas then if hes trying to chase you with the nobz, run and shoot keep squads spread out ot keep him busy and buy you more time to pump him full of lead , if hes chasing with bikes, or wagons, climb and shoot. or if you can pull it off ram the deff rollers from the side with your tanks and tank shock em outa comision.
IG is a shooty army, even mech ork is mainly melee based why stay and fight less its on your terms. i normaly do the green tide myself, only game ive lost so far was against a eldar player who literaly hoped in a transport vehicle ran in circles and shot me down while i tried 2 chase and cut him off with truks and boyz, his av was 2 high for the slugga boyz and as long as he kept out of range of my PK's i really couldn't touch him.

Wazrokk,
Nope I'm not sure the IG have a combat answer for meganobz - other than throwing hundreds of blobbed bodies (sarges with power gloves) into the combat and hoping the nobs fail some basic saves. As the sarges will not instant kill them even that is not likely to get the better of the orks.

Getting up high in building is an idea vs roolers but would only work if you had a small umber of troops.

Need to make lootas hiding in cover disappear? The colossus is your answer - also really good against MEQs. S6 AP3 ignores cover and fires indirectly. The only time it sucks is when you have a bad scatter. I had one inside a building at a tournament. Just kept shooting all game long. Put cammo netting on it and behind an aegis defense line for a 3+ cover save if no buildings are available At 1500 I'd take two!

I'm also starting to drop chimeras from my lists in favor of more bodies. Seems like every time one blows up everyone inside dies along with everyone within 4 inches :( Plus you can't give orders to people in vehicles...

Also if he has a really low troop count definitely target them with the colossus's. Most of the missions are objective based so if one turn of pie plating his troops causes a draw at best for him (short of you being tabled of course) than it should be a lot more pressure on him.

As was stated above with the first rank fire order...weight of dice can make a difference. You could take Creed and have him use his orders on four infantry squads. That's close to 120 lasgun shots! Good luck riding up through that! Ok, so maybe i'm over stating a little bit...

At 1500 this is what I'm starting to work with. I've got six scoring units (the vets ride in the vendettas), 11 lascannons 6TL and 4 that can be ordered to be TL against MCs and vehicles, 6 blast templates of various types and sizes for the infantry who no longer have vehicles thanks to the lascannons. All but one of the blast templates can fire indirectly and reach almost anywhere on the board.

1500 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster

HQ: Company Command Squad + Mortar + Lord Castellan Creed

Troops:
2x Platton
Platoon Command Squad + Mortar
Infantry Squad + Lascannon
Infantry Squad + Lascannon

2x Veteran Squad + Flamer x3

Fast Attack
2x Vendetta Gunship

Heavy:
1x Leman Russ Battle Tank + Lascannon
2x Colossus + Camo Netting

Aegis Defence Lines + Comms Relay

Okay you need to kill Orks
You have some chimera models floating about ..make some Hydra Turrets for them ..(removable) one squadron of Hydras can turn the tide as the hydra has skyfire and anti jink these days they will trash anything flying, jetbikes, regular bikes, and blobby troops ..( one squadon of hydras beats a a full group of lootas since they miss much less often )

Hyrdas will deal with the flyers, sure. The rest? I wouldn't count on it. They're Skyfire only, no Interceptor, so you're Snap Firing at anything that's not a flyer or skimmer. Sure they're twin-linked, but still.

They're better unsquadroned to fight flyer spam. Squadrons have to attack the same target, and damage can carry over to other vehicles in the squadron. You'll pop one flyer and have your Hydras blasted to bits. If you're already running Russes, you won't have slots for all those Hydras.

 necron99 wrote:


I'm also starting to drop chimeras from my lists in favor of more bodies. Seems like every time one blows up everyone inside dies along with everyone within 4 inches :( Plus you can't give orders to people in vehicles...

This has got to be one of my favorite "stupid rules" from Games Workshop. An officer inside a Chimera can issue orders to units from within the Chimera, but he can't order his own unit inside the Chimera and also can't order units in other chimeras....

And before you ask "Have you ever been inside an APC? It's very noisey......yes I was an infantryman for 4 years and 2 of those were spent in a mechanized unit. yes they are noisey but you could still here your NCO shouting at you, and if he was on the radio in APC #1 talking to the crewman in APC #2, he could relay commands just fine.

Stupid GW!

necron99 wrote:Need to make lootas hiding in cover disappear? The colossus is your answer - also really good against MEQs.

I do love the colossus - I'm bringing 2 colossi vs Tau in a fight tomorrow. However, my ork opponent hides under a roof. This is a tactic that makes me want to flip the table - you can't use barrage on them. It's down to direct fire weapons to deal with them, and since AV12 doesn't last 1 turn in LOS with Lootas, Lemans are pretty much the only option. What else? Infantry is out, they either have to gtg or suffer loses on their feet. Someone mentioned hellfury missiles, probably a great choice (I don't personally like it, because you fire the 2 missiles and that's it, 100 points now flying around with not much else to contribute).

Bottom line - barrage is out. At least in our meta game, there are too many roofs, otherwise I'd turn the lootas into a crater.

morfydd wrote:Okay you need to kill Orks
You have some chimera models floating about ..make some Hydra Turrets for them ..(removable) one squadron of Hydras can turn the tide as the hydra has skyfire and anti jink these days they will trash anything flying, jetbikes, regular bikes, and blobby troops ..( one squadon of hydras beats a a full group of lootas since they miss much less often )

Hydras don't do anything in the 6th. I have a lot of people argue otherwise, but lets compare. 75 pts for a hyrda, you get to shoot at air support, and snap fire at the ground. Boo. For 25 points LESS, you can get the same number of shots, twin linked, and shoots at incoming fliers on their turn : Quadgun. The hydra takes up a heavy slot. Boo. If you're facing a notorious flier-spam army, ok, yeah, a squad of hydras is going to shred them, but I personally wouldn't consider it otherwise.

For anti-flier and pretty much anything besides infantry - I just started playing with 2 Vendettas and they're performance is simply outstanding. It's the only weapon I've ever played with (in the IG) that actually performs as advertised. It just straight up kills things. Enemy air - dead. Enemy vehicles - dead. Walkers, MCs, Crisis Suits - dead. Super fun unit that isn't all "sit in a corner and shoot".

Yes Vendettas are nasty ..okay Hydras not an option for you Convert on Vendetta back to a Valkarie with multilaser and missile pods ..and chew up his pebble pounders like nobodies business

Okay here is a list that has worked for me in the past against a similar build.
CCS,creed,lascannon-160
(good orders bubble)
PCS,chimera,4x flamers-105
10x Infantry,autocannon-60
10x Infantry,autocannon-60
PCS,chimera,4x flamers-105
10x Infantry,autocannon-60
10x Infantry,autocannon-60
Vets,3x meltas,demo,chimera-185
Vets,3x meltas,demo,chimera-185
Vendetta-130
Leeman Russ main battle tank,heavy flamer-150
Demolisher,heavy flamer-165
Hydra,heavy flamer-75
(ruins nob bikers,all the live long day)
1500
Creed and the 20 man infantry blobs sit back,and open up all the transports,using his orders to twin-link everything.And/or deny cover saves, or whatever you like,you get 4 orders pick and choose.
The demolisher can either charge up with the vets or be used to outflank.It is also great for taking down a deathstar.Once the vets get close they can pop any remaining transports and then use their demo charges to kill infantry that come out.The PCS' also run up and play havoc on the masses of cheap and exposed infantry.4 flamers is a lot of wounds.
The hydra can shoots down the planes,or shoot at bikers.

The Hydra's not going to much for bikers in 6th Edition. It's been changed to have Skyfire.

 CaptObvious wrote:

I do love the colossus - I'm bringing 2 colossi vs Tau in a fight tomorrow. However, my ork opponent hides under a roof. This is a tactic that makes me want to flip the table - you can't use barrage on them. It's down to direct fire weapons to deal with them, and since AV12 doesn't last 1 turn in LOS with Lootas, Lemans are pretty much the only option. What else? Infantry is out, they either have to gtg or suffer loses on their feet. Someone mentioned hellfury missiles, probably a great choice (I don't personally like it, because you fire the 2 missiles and that's it, 100 points now flying around with not much else to contribute).

Why don't you just blow up the building?, bring it down on his head then collossusify or manticore his green cheesy backside .

I don't have much experience fighting orks but for the vehicles i suggest autocannons as others have said,
mMaybe if you have enough cover to hide behind try deploying some russ variants behind buildings incase you dont get first turn or keeping them in reserve.
Also you could outflank a hellhound to burn out those looters, but with all reserves this is risky as those orks could/will be on you by turn 2 unless you knock out the trucks.

One of the guys I play against consistently runs Orks, more of a horde player but I've had run-ins with Mega-Nobz, Biker Nobz, and the Wagons. I generally run Melta/Plasma-vets and that alone is enough to answer any elite choice he takes, along with any nobz I encounter. But when you factor in Lootas? I shudder to think.

I'd probably mass LRBTs, at 1500 I'd run three facing what you do and bubble them with platoons armed with ACs and flamers to deter the bikers and any orks you force to foot-slog. A hydra facing down his jets is a great idea, combine that with an ADL and you're swatting those things out of the sky.

I'd stay away from Vendettas in this fight, they're too fragile and for 20 more points, you can have AV14 lobbing Str8 templates around. Creed is a sexy idea, considering his ability to do four orders; 120 laser-pointer shots is nothing to scoff at.

morfydd wrote:Yes Vendettas are nasty ..okay Hydras not an option for you Convert on Vendetta back to a Valkarie with multilaser and missile pods ..and chew up his pebble pounders like nobodies business

I've brought the Valkarie a number of times vs orks and tau. If I read a good batrep where the multi-rocket pods did well, I'd consider bringing it again, but my experience with them - three thumbs down. The multi-laser is a great weapon, I love it on a chimera, but it's mounted on a super sexy flying machine that usually brings death to all, I feel like "hey! who put this little toy laser on my vendetta??"

Sorry, my field tests of the multi-rocket pods were not successful. I think I killed a single fire warrior with it, and maybe a 3-4 Lootas. It always surprised me, they seem so cool.

OneManNoodles wrote:

 CaptObvious wrote:

I do love the colossus - I'm bringing 2 colossi vs Tau in a fight tomorrow. However, my ork opponent hides under a roof. This is a tactic that makes me want to flip the table - you can't use barrage on them. It's down to direct fire weapons to deal with them, and since AV12 doesn't last 1 turn in LOS with Lootas, Lemans are pretty much the only option. What else? Infantry is out, they either have to gtg or suffer loses on their feet. Someone mentioned hellfury missiles, probably a great choice (I don't personally like it, because you fire the 2 missiles and that's it, 100 points now flying around with not much else to contribute).

Why don't you just blow up the building?, bring it down on his head then collossusify or manticore his green cheesy backside .

I'm starting to really hate our terrain. The buildings are not enclosed, classifying them as ruins, not buildings. Therefore they are immune to building destruction rules (they're already 'ruined'). I know, I argued against this ruling - it's the worst.

Frankenberry wrote:One of the guys I play against consistently runs Orks, more of a horde player but I've had run-ins with Mega-Nobz, Biker Nobz, and the Wagons. I generally run Melta/Plasma-vets and that alone is enough to answer any elite choice he takes, along with any nobz I encounter. But when you factor in Lootas? I shudder to think.

I'd probably mass LRBTs, at 1500 I'd run three facing what you do and bubble them with platoons armed with ACs and flamers to deter the bikers and any orks you force to foot-slog. A hydra facing down his jets is a great idea, combine that with an ADL and you're swatting those things out of the sky.

I'd stay away from Vendettas in this fight, they're too fragile and for 20 more points, you can have AV14 lobbing Str8 templates around. Creed is a sexy idea, considering his ability to do four orders; 120 laser-pointer shots is nothing to scoff at.

More tanks, yes. Can a dakka jet hurt AV14? I'm too lazy to look it up right now. If the Leman is immune to dakka jets, I think dropping the Vendettas for more tanks is the optimal move. Done.

Thanks everyone!

-Obvious

yea Lemans are the bane of orks ...and a Leman ispretty decent protection from dakkjets..( the rear armor is vulnerable but the sides and front are not)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said if he swaps for a blitzabomber well ..think big blast Melta bombs landing on your leman