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So, from the BL books and fluff, it has become patent what a ridiculously lame father the Big E was. Sure, one kid landed on a civilized, advanced world and was feted and honored his whole life, the other had to eat rat droppings in the dark, surely both are alright to serve me right after picking them up from their foster homes!

So here's an exercise: How could the Emperor have 'fixed' the rebel Primarchs?

A few examples:

Lorgar:
"Pull up a chair, my son. I have learned of your career in your home planet, your efforts to enlighten people in brotherhood under a common faith. I admire your intentions, but I need you to understand that your methods will eventually harm your goal. I now share with you, and you alone, information that is crucial to our endeavour. There are forces in the Warp, immensely powerful and malevolent but not truly conscious, and they feed upon such worship, easily turning the faithful into pawns and victims of their depravity.

Only by starving them can we ultimately defeat them, and that is why we must abandon the trappings of religion. Once they are gone and mankind's dominion of the galaxy is secured, we can begin to consider ways to nourish and develop the spiritual and philosophical potential of mankind. I do not tell you this to condemn your noble efforts. I have a higher purpose for you: to safeguard the spiritual well-being of the souls of all mankind until the time comes to unleash it. Because many would abuse it during that interval."

Angron:
"I have seen the armies surrounding these mountains, my son. You and your brothers and sisters have fought valiantly, but you cannot hope to prevail now. I have traveled long to find you, and I have this to tell you: These are not your only brothers. Above us there are whole armies of warriors of your very own blood, made to free mankind from exactly the kind of tyrants and slavemasters you face. Say the word, and they will come here to fight by your side and erase these despicable regime from the face of this world. I will be there by your side during the battle, to show them the mistake they made in putting the son of the Master of Mankind in fetters.

After we free this world, you and yours will be taken to these ships, -your- ships, to take the fight to similar alien tyrants and fake rulers. You can fight together, not for survival but for freedom, your brothers and your sons. Don't give these petty lords the honor of killing you and your rebels, Angron, to then return to their cities and shackle and abuse another generation of slaves. In fact, let's step out and trounce them right now, you and me. It'll be a bonding experience!"

Gee.....go figure....I mean, these characters were supposed to be flawed in order to give them personality. However I think this is really funny....and sadly accurate.

Telling Magnus the same about the dangers of the warp and the temptations of demons in order to help safeguard the legion against it.

Moar!

The idea that the Emperor is a "father" to the Primarchs is at best a tremendously strained metaphor.

Fulgrim

"Come here, son, some here."

SMACK!

"Pull your crap together."

Alpharius/Omegon" "Keep up the good work son"

Striving for perfection fulgrim is a never ending and pointless endeavor, I'm not perfect and neither will you be, through such a impossible task there are beings that will take advantage of your.quest and bring you low for it.

Also dont take candy from strangers and dont pick up strange weapons in a alien space orgy...cos that won't end well

Eat your vegetables and go to bed early.

Dont talk to strangers

Although more than one of the Traitor Primarchs could easily have been saved, if Horus, who the Emperor did not mistreat at all and even treated as his favoured son (no strained metaphor there!) was corrupted, what chance did any of them really have?

Lorgar might have been corrected. Alpharius/Omegon and Perturabo as well, if they'd simply been given some recognition from time to time. Angron's a very big maybe - he *had* been lobotomised.
Magnus would have actually gone and sought out these beings if he was told about them (his fall was always going to be from hubris). Still, he was *extremely* capable, so armed with decent foreknowledge might have actually come out ahead of the game.

Then again, if all of the Primarchs had been forewarned of Chaos' subtlety and trickery and insidiousness, it's possible that only Lorgar, Curze and maybe Mortarion and/or Angron would have fallen anyway.

Magnus: Just tell him the truth. Magnus loved seeking the truth of things, knowing everything about the warp that the emperor knew would have saved him. And Magnus would not have told any other primarch about it anyways. He never raised anyone above himself, except the emperor.

Angron: Kill him, just erase him. Unsaveable.

Lorgar: Spend some damned time with him, enlighten him, explain things!

Fulgrim: See Lorgar. Him and Lorgar were two primarchs the emperor should have held close to himself. They would have needed him there to tell them right from wrong.

Horus: He didnt really mess things up there. Horus is a crying bitch with daddy issues.

Space-batman: Dont give the guy a freakin legion, he needed eduction, not more power!

Had horus not fallen, neither would peturabo, his fall was because of horus, horus caused Olympia to go traitor and this in turn caused peturabo to do the unforgivable, as peturabo states, once he is set to a path, he sees it through to the end, come what may.

How to cause primarchs to fall:

'Yo Vulkan, son, go pop a cap in that planet yo' - it's got watermelons on it!'

'Sanguinius if you don't stop watching Twilight you can GTFO my battle barge...'

'Roboute stop being a douche'

'Rogal, if you don't let Peturabo play with your lego you're grounded'

'Corax you need to stop watching 'late night birdwatching with Remebrancer Atton-Burugh' '

 Spyral wrote:
'Yo Vulkan, son, go pop a cap in that planet yo' - it's got watermelons on it!'

...really?

Perturabo: Don't worry son, I forgive you for Olympia. BTW, here are some Xbox machines and a load of games. These'll make garrison duty a much less monotonous task.

Konrad Curze: The commute from Nostramo is too long. Recruit from this world over here. The people there are a lot less shellshocked.

Angron: Let's go throw down the highriders together. Now, let's go mess up some alien tyrants.

Lorgar: Here, hold this (puts bomb with lit fuse in his hands and runs, closing the door behind him)

Mortarion: Have an asprin.

Alpharius: Let's have some father/son time. Come fight by my side. And don't let aliens talk to you. They'll try'n fool you good.

Magnus: No more joking Magnus: the warp is evil. Stay the hell away from it. It's got daemons that want into this universe. You don't want to help them, do you?

Fulgrim: You're fine just the way you are. Nothing can ever be perfect. What is even more great than trying to be perfect is coming to terms with your flaws and learning how to lose. And, before you go, hand over that sword. I don't like the way it's looking at me.

Horus: Stay off the front line from now on and don't get pricked in the finger by evil swords. M'kay?

Mortarion: you need to get out more, get some fresh air and some sunshine.

 Vaerros wrote:

 Spyral wrote:
'Yo Vulkan, son, go pop a cap in that planet yo' - it's got watermelons on it!'

...really?

Yes. There's quite more racism/homophobia/sexism and etc. than you would hope for on Dakka Dakka. The only semi-legitimate excuse I can figure is this game involves overwhelmingly white super-humans battling the 'other' which includes everything from savages to communists to sexual perverts. As such a bit is to be expected. Though TBF back when 40k had a sense of humour this made sense. These days it has unfortunate implications.

"Konrad, gonna need to put you on a curfew; you're staying out too late."

"Lemun, leave that dog alone!"

"Corvus, quit sassing me and finish those chores! Don't you say 'nevermore' again!"

"Lionel, turn up the light when you read your poetry!"

Emperor :"Magnus, stop sniffing the warp dust"
Magnus : *snort,snort*..."Father one day I will know everything"
Emperor :


Now go to your tower and don't eyeball me...

 Spyral wrote:
How to cause primarchs to fall:

'Yo Vulkan, son, go pop a cap in that planet yo' - it's got watermelons on it!'

is my emotional response in a nut-shell.

@ DarthMarko: Isn't that kinda how Magnus was forced off his cliff in the first place?

@Spyral: Not cool man, all this Twilight hate is old. And Guilliman is not a douche, this gets proved every other day. And the Vulcan comment was outright disgusting, that's the most idiotic and immature thing I've read on Dakka, and that says something.

Now, back on topic. Best way to keep the kids in line? Hire a better baby sitter so the Warp doesn't sneak in and steal them. I mean, really, the Emperor didn't even know where his kids were born, some accounts say under the Himalayas, some say in a secret moon base.

So we're ok with space nazis, but a joke about black humour and stereotypes suddenly incurs the wrath of the internets... o.O

Bran Dawri wrote:
@ DarthMarko: Isn't that kinda how Magnus was forced off his cliff in the first place?

Yeah, just kidding you know...






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spyral wrote:
So we're ok with space nazis, but a joke about black humour and stereotypes suddenly incurs the wrath of the internets... o.O

I admit you made me laugh, but there is a difference between rl and fantasy jokes I guess...

 Spyral wrote:


'Sanguinius if you don't stop watching Twilight you can GTFO my battle barge...'

HA wins thread. Pansies.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

 Spyral wrote:


'Sanguinius if you don't stop watching Twilight you can GTFO my battle barge...'

HA wins thread. Pansies.

Yeah funny joke. Very original

 Spyral wrote:
So we're ok with space nazis, but a joke about black humour and stereotypes suddenly incurs the wrath of the internets... o.O

I honestly don't think Spyral was trying to be racially offensive, he was just using an example of what the Emperor could say to Vulkan to hypothetically piss him off.

Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpuogyEcmik

Granted, the language and stereotypes were a little inflammatory, but lets chalk it up to general British ignorance of the nuances of American culture and racial sensitivity.

That said, why don't we see more racial minorities playing 40k?

That said, why don't we see more racial minorities playing 40k?

Nerd Culture, of which 40K definitely belongs, is a predominantly white male culture, though it is not universally so. However, given the average age at which people start getting into these sorts of things is also the average age at which people start establishing self-identities, and inclusion into an ethic or cultural group may inform rather heavily on the establishment of those identities... it's really not that surprising.

That said, my DH group includes a black male, an Anglo/Vietnamese male, and now three women, in addition to 4 Caucasian males, so non-white, non-male fans of the game and the setting definitely exist, they just aren't very common, in total. Here in Seattle, being the liberal bastion that it is, we probably have a higher incidence of racial inclusiveness in many such settings where other towns with different prevailing social attitudes might not.