Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
The only difference is they have a special warboss that makes bikers troops (exactly like Wazdakka), but uses a warbosses profile and has a power klaw that strikes at initiative. Downside is a less powerful gun than Wazzy, and only has a 6+ armour save instead of the normal 4+. He's also 30pts cheaper than Wazzy.
Everything else is identical in terms of bikers between the book and the codex.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
What would you consider better? Personally. Wazdakka or the Forgeworld biker? I want to run a bike list at 2k. Like 2 giant squads of bikers (deathstars). I think I remember hearing about an Invulnerable save as well.
Saythings wrote: What would you consider better? Personally. Wazdakka or the Forgeworld biker? I want to run a bike list at 2k. Like 2 giant squads of bikers (deathstars). I think I remember hearing about an Invulnerable save as well.
The invulnerable save comes from a painboy allowing to purchase cybork bodies.
Its almost an even trade off in a way. The FW biker boss strikes at S10 at initiative, which is huge. He also has a higher I than Wazzy. In return, he has only a 6+ save in combat (4+ from cover from shooting, like all ork bikers), and is lacking in shooting compared to wazzy. The FW boss is cheaper, which helps, basically giving your army a free powerklaw over wazzy.
But Wazzy has a S8 gun that can always shoot, and a Kustom Mega blaster, just in case.
They both fill the same role in unlocking bikes as troops, but I'd probably go with the FW guy. Ork shooting can be pretty awesome, but for a bike army I'd run, I'd want as much CC killyness as possible, and S10 at Initiative is huge these days.
Don't forget that neither of these characters allow for a nob squad to be taken as troops though, so you'll still need to bring a second warboss on a bike if you want a scoring nob bike squad.
I'll also finish by saying I'm not an Ork player, and have no actual experience with this. Just theory-hammer and reading.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 02:54:54
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
More personal preference than mathhammer really though..
I prefer Wazdakka or a regular Bikerboss. Not really that much of a fan of the FW guy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 07:06:53
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
wouldnt it be orky initiative though, which still sucks balls? Best initiative we got is 4, and every other HQ or...hell...most elites have better than that (elites that actually are suppose to melee i mean, like wraiths)
Thats why i have never felt inhibited by getting a pklaw. Oooo i attack last...big freakin deal i already attack last anyway 90% of the time lol
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
Vineheart01 wrote: wouldnt it be orky initiative though, which still sucks balls? Best initiative we got is 4, and every other HQ or...hell...most elites have better than that (elites that actually are suppose to melee i mean, like wraiths)
Thats why i have never felt inhibited by getting a pklaw. Oooo i attack last...big freakin deal i already attack last anyway 90% of the time lol
How is an AP 2 S10 Powerfist hitting at I 4 a bad thing?
And also, since the FW biker character is on a bike, he gets a +4 armor save too, just like how he gets the +4 cover save. It's no different than if you buy a regular boss a bike,, and didn't buy him 'eavy arma. The bike gives him his +4 armor save, just like the cover save and the dakkaguns. They probably just copy pasted a warboss profile for him to be tweaked and then didn't think anything of the armor save, since he'd be on a bike anyways.
Unless there's something specifically stating that his bike is less armored or something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 21:36:07
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Vineheart01 wrote: wouldnt it be orky initiative though, which still sucks balls? Best initiative we got is 4, and every other HQ or...hell...most elites have better than that (elites that actually are suppose to melee i mean, like wraiths)
Thats why i have never felt inhibited by getting a pklaw. Oooo i attack last...big freakin deal i already attack last anyway 90% of the time lol
How is an AP 2 S10 Powerfist hitting at I 4 a bad thing?
And also, since the FW biker character is on a bike, he gets a +4 armor save too, just like how he gets the +4 cover save. It's no different than if you buy a regular boss a bike,, and didn't buy him 'eavy arma. The bike gives him his +4 armor save, just like the cover save and the dakkaguns. They probably just copy pasted a warboss profile for him to be tweaked and then didn't think anything of the armor save, since he'd be on a bike anyways.
Unless there's something specifically stating that his bike is less armored or something.
Well, see that's where I was confused at first too. However, his wargear doesn't list a warbike, but rather his custom rokkit bike. Its rather ambiguous in a way, but his profile states 6+ even though he already has a bike as wargear. To emphasize this, the nob bikers further in the codex are explicitly stated to have warbikes as wargear and have a 4+ save in their profile standard.
There's also nothing in any FAQ I've found addressing this. Part of would like to say that because he's on a bike, he gets a 4+ save like every other ork biker, but at the same time it could very well be a balancing factor that he has only a 6+ save.
Very strange anyways. Probably something for you YMDC to chew on, though most people don't have the book to weigh in.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
Makes sense you'd only have 6+ Sv because that's how he is listed. Most (in not, all from what I have seen) update the Sv in the profile based off of their Wargear. The I4 helps, but it's average, so unless they end up completely killing the model, Wazdakka will most likely survive at get his I1 powerclaw attacks off. 4+ Sv, 5+ FNL (from Painboy), or 5++, 5+ if they have power weapons as well.
Saythings wrote: Whembly, you have over 6000+ Ork models. What is your thoughts on Biker squads? How many have you every ran with on 1 list? How big were they?
They're still my favorite Ork Lists and even in 6th edition, they're a bit more viable.
The overall points are still valid except I may drop the kommandos for more lootas, no need to diversify the Nob bikers, and maybe figure out how to fit in a dakkajet or two.
Spoiler:
To OP:
It really depends on your local meta and they're really not great in an "all comers list", but...
If you run large man Nob bikers... best tactic really is to point it at the bad guys and try to get into an assault by no later that 2 turn. The amount of firepower this unit can soak up is unreal. I've hauled ass to the standard IG Gunline list's (manticores, plasma vomitting tanks, basilisk) backline with a 9-man nob squad and they destroyed easily half the tanks by the end of the game.
Nob bikers are possibly the biggest fire magnet an ork can field... and they can almost take anything! What this does is that this allows your other unit move up the table virtually unmolested (at least, it does for me... my flg abhor nob bikers ).
Here's a 2000pt list I'm rather fond of:
HQ:
Wazdakka
Warboss on Warbike, PK, Cyborked
Elites:
5 x Kommandos + 1 Snikrot
5 x Lootas
5 x Lootas
Tactic:
Constant 4+ coversaves for bikers... 4+ armour save... 3+ cover save it you turbo boost.
Total of 84 TL Bigshootas shots per turn in the troop slot! (3 shots per at STR5 / AP5). I've taken down Big Tyranid bugs, terminator squads with just the bikers.
The Nob squads are just mean... I've had a Chaos deathstar assault my Nobs... this consisted of 3 Terminators, 1 Chaos Lord in Termie + ID demon weapon, AND Typhus... The Nob squad wiped out that unit in 2 turns (opponent even assaulted the nob squad with his beserkers after the 1st combat round and the Nob squad feasted on them).
Wazzy just turbo-boost every turn for the 3+ coversave and still shoots 4 STR8 shorts for good 'ol tank hunting ! (I don't think 3+ coversave during turbo is applicable in 6th)
Deffkoptas are great for first turn assault (they can turbo scout!) or, if you go second... outflank with 'em. Great harassment unit. (can't get first turn assault anymore, consider dakkajets and/or rokkit buggies)
Lootas are there to pop light transport (so that bikers/nob can charge!) or knock off wounds on monsterous creatures... even if they can shake/stun vehicle, that's golden as they're not shooting at your bikers.
This is kinda controversial... Snikrot's unit is there to mind-feth your oponent. He can crack vehicles... get to well hidden units... contest... he always does something good for me. Other Ork generals don't think he's worth is points or is better spent elsewhere so YMMV.
However, there are flaws to this army... they're susceptable to anything that forces leadership tests (tankshock, pinning, PBS, etc) that can run the bikers off the board. The trick with this army to is get the nobs in CC asap. The other 4 warbikers FOCUSes their DAKKA power to one or two targets.
Another thing I like to do is to give the nob biker unit at least 3 Bosspoles... this is so that I'd always have a BP if some of the BP bikers dies... those rerolls are golden.
Also another problem is that during objective games, opponents would put the objective markers in terrain (where bikers take dangerous terrain) or put 'em on second/third floor where bikers can't even get them. My solution is to have the kommandos or deffkoptas contest those...
Another good tackit for the warbikers themselves is to ALWAYS try to put the first non-ID would on your nob... that way, you warbikers stays alive longer and it may not force leadership test that turn. (not really practical anymore since wounds are taken closest to shooter... so, planned model placements is crucial now)
All in all... they're tough, pack a CC punch (nob squad) and can outshoot most armies (moar DAKKA!).
I would play this in friendly games, but not at tournaments.(not true! I'd play them in tourny now!)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/02/15 02:22:56
Vineheart01 wrote: wouldnt it be orky initiative though, which still sucks balls? Best initiative we got is 4, and every other HQ or...hell...most elites have better than that (elites that actually are suppose to melee i mean, like wraiths)
Thats why i have never felt inhibited by getting a pklaw. Oooo i attack last...big freakin deal i already attack last anyway 90% of the time lol
How is an AP 2 S10 Powerfist hitting at I 4 a bad thing?
And also, since the FW biker character is on a bike, he gets a +4 armor save too, just like how he gets the +4 cover save. It's no different than if you buy a regular boss a bike,, and didn't buy him 'eavy arma. The bike gives him his +4 armor save, just like the cover save and the dakkaguns. They probably just copy pasted a warboss profile for him to be tweaked and then didn't think anything of the armor save, since he'd be on a bike anyways.
Unless there's something specifically stating that his bike is less armored or something.
Like Blacksails said, Zhardsnark doesn't have a standard warbike, he's got "da Beast", so he doesn't automatically get the normal warbike rules. It doesn't mention it in his rules block, but on an earlier page it does mention that he's lightly armored for a warboss.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 03:34:08
Vineheart01 wrote: wouldnt it be orky initiative though, which still sucks balls? Best initiative we got is 4, and every other HQ or...hell...most elites have better than that (elites that actually are suppose to melee i mean, like wraiths)
Thats why i have never felt inhibited by getting a pklaw. Oooo i attack last...big freakin deal i already attack last anyway 90% of the time lol
How is an AP 2 S10 Powerfist hitting at I 4 a bad thing?
And also, since the FW biker character is on a bike, he gets a +4 armor save too, just like how he gets the +4 cover save. It's no different than if you buy a regular boss a bike,, and didn't buy him 'eavy arma. The bike gives him his +4 armor save, just like the cover save and the dakkaguns. They probably just copy pasted a warboss profile for him to be tweaked and then didn't think anything of the armor save, since he'd be on a bike anyways.
Unless there's something specifically stating that his bike is less armored or something.
Like Blacksails said, Zhardsnark doesn't have a standard warbike, he's got "da Beast", so he doesn't automatically get the normal warbike rules. It doesn't mention it in his rules block, but on an earlier page it does mention that he's lightly armored for a warboss.
Ah ok that makes more sense. I didn't know it was his warbike that gave him the special rules.
Thanks for the heads up guys.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
EDIT: Bigshootas = Dakkaguns that come standard on Bikers. BP = Bosspole! I figured it out. Lmao. Sorry, slow at learning. 2nd armies are rough.
sorry about all the acronyms... just ask, but you'll get it.
Just remember, biker list isn't "easy" to play because your model counts are lower than non-bike ork armies. Orks in general excel in massed bodies/shots compared to other armies.
The thing with Kommandos+Snikrot is that they're expensive for what they do... plus, you cannot ever assault on the same turn you come on the table (if your outflank/Ambush), which neuter them in 6th ed.
This is what I was thinking (still theory hammering):
Spoiler:
2000 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster
HQ: Wazdakka Gutsmek 1 Wazdakka Gutsmek, ((C:Orks, pp. 60 & 96); Bikes; Bosspole; Kustom Mega-Blasta; Mek's Tools; Stikkbombs; Warbike of the Aporkalypse; Power Klaw; Slugga; Dakkacannon; Exhaust Cloud; Furious Charge; Hammer of Wrath; Independent Character; Jink; Mob Rule; Relentless)
There is a lot of weird (tricky) wording with Infiltrate. But you ARE allowed to charge/assault Turn 1 with the Kommandos (via Infiltrating). But you have to go second. The rules state Infiltrators cannot assault Turn 1 (as in Player turn 1)... Not Game Turn 1. Since Infiltrators can't assault "Turn 1", if you go first, you cannot assault. But if you go second (bottom of Turn 1), you can assault. They allow this so an enemy player has at least 1 turn to react to positioning. If you can get the Kommandos within 12" (out of LOS) of the enemy. You can get a bottom of Turn 1 assault, assuming he doesn't move back or simply shoot them off the board. Just some food for thought.
I like including "wild cards" in an army list. They might not always work and some games they might not do anything, but the option is nice to have on a list. Kind of like, Doom of Malan'tai for Tyranids.
Tyranids are my main army atm and I just reached 2000 points and I've always had a thing for Ork armies and especially Ork Bikers so this is helping me a lot. I know Orks thrive off of number of models and horde, etc. But being a Tyranid player, I know what horde looks like and I try to lean away from it as much as possible. I run a 10 TMC list and only have 2 Tervigons and 20 Gants on my starting list. If you are unfamiliar to Tyranids tactics, that's pretty much the least about of infantry you can run while still keeping your list as competitive as possible! I understand Ork biker lists will take a lot of practicing at keeping specific models closest to enemy shooting and positioning, but that's what makes the game so exciting! The fact that you can hurt yourself with poor planning and positioning, almost worse than a few unlucky rolls of the dice!
EDIT: Appreciate you labeling everything! Must of taken you much longer to do, sorry! Even got page numbers in there for me! haha. Thanks!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/15 05:48:21
Saythings wrote: There is a lot of weird (tricky) wording with Infiltrate. But you ARE allowed to charge/assault Turn 1 with the Kommandos (via Infiltrating). But you have to go second. The rules state Infiltrators cannot assault Turn 1 (as in Player turn 1)... Not Game Turn 1. Since Infiltrators can't assault "Turn 1", if you go first, you cannot assault. But if you go second (bottom of Turn 1), you can assault. They allow this so an enemy player has at least 1 turn to react to positioning. If you can get the Kommandos within 12" (out of LOS) of the enemy. You can get a bottom of Turn 1 assault, assuming he doesn't move back or simply shoot them off the board. Just some food for thought.
I like including "wild cards" in an army list. They might not always work and some games they might not do anything, but the option is nice to have on a list. Kind of like, Doom of Malan'tai for Tyranids.
Tyranids are my main army atm and I just reached 2000 points and I've always had a thing for Ork armies and especially Ork Bikers so this is helping me a lot. I know Orks thrive off of number of models and horde, etc. But being a Tyranid player, I know what horde looks like and I try to lean away from it as much as possible. I run a 10 TMC list and only have 2 Tervigons and 20 Gants on my starting list. If you are unfamiliar to Tyranids tactics, that's pretty much the least about of infantry you can run while still keeping your list as competitive as possible! I understand Ork biker lists will take a lot of practicing at keeping specific models closest to enemy shooting and positioning, but that's what makes the game so exciting! The fact that you can hurt yourself with poor planning and positioning, almost worse than a few unlucky rolls of the dice!
EDIT:
Appreciate you labeling everything! Must of taken you much longer to do, sorry! Even got page numbers in there for me! haha. Thanks!
No problem... as a bug lover, you should'nt have any issues with Orks... and I can't take credit for the labeling... that actually came from Army Builder, which is an AWESOME tool to create lists.
Let me know if you get anymore idea! You think it might be worth it to up the numbers of Bikers per squad and drop down to 3 squads of bikers? From what I hear/see, 5 bikes isn't a lot to do any real damage.
You think it might be worth it to up the numbers of Bikers per squad and drop down to 3 squads of bikers? From what I hear/see, 5 bikes isn't a lot to do any real damage.
YMMV...
3 squads I've found is awfully low in objective based games.
The trick with smaller squads/more units is simply fire discipline... that is, pick one target and have ALL the bikes fire at it.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
