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Made in br
Winter Guard




Brazil

In a recent game I played, my friend wanted to assault my tacticals that were on the second floor of a ruin, but his charging bike was on the floor.

Are bikes (or walkers) allowed to "climb" floors like regular infantry?

Another question: The rulebook mentions the first model to move into the charge must make the shortest route to its target. But nothing is mentioned about the rest of his squad. On several occasions, my first model could move into the charge by the shortest route avoiding difficult terrain, but other models on his unit could only avoid the difficult terrain by going around it a bit - thus making a somewhat different route. Is it legal or are all models required to make the shortest route to the target?

Last, am I required to declare a multiple charge before rolling the distance or can I choose to multiple charge after checking the result of the roll and realizing I am able to reach more than one target? If I can delcare multiple charges after the roll, then what do I do with the distance rolled if the second target requires me to pass through difficult terrain? Do I take the result already rolled or do I have to roll the distance again, this time with 3 dice and picking up the lowest 2?

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Regular bikes cannot go up to second+ level ruins. Only jet bikes can.

I believe there is mention in the rulebook about moving directly towards the closest unengaged model (in a straight line). If any member of your squad has terrain between them and the enemy squad you need to roll 3D6 and take the two lowest for charge range, this is before you move any models.
   
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Out of my Mind

You have to declare a multiple charge before you roll the distance for a few reasons.
1) You need to allow your opponent the opportunity to Overwatch with all units being charged.
2) You're supposed to remove casualties from Overwatch before rolling the distance, since these models could potentially prevent the unit from charging.
3) You can't claim the bonus attack for charging if the distance rolled is only enough to bring you into base contact with the primary unit being charged. It would literally be a case of 'Oh I didn't make it, so Im gonna take the extra attack against the one unit I hit.'

A bad habit has developed among some players where they declare the charge, roll the distance and start moving models before even allowing his opponent to Overwatch, When this gets pointed out to them, they'll just remove Overwatch casualties from wherever and move on. It's not always intentional as players are just used to moving models after declaring the assault, and most of the time it makes little difference. There is an order to it though, and we all just need to get in the habit of slowing down a bit. Depending on the situation, crafty players (usually with the Power that allows Overwatch at BS) will Focus Fire, and force you charge through difficult terrain. Rare that this happens, but how can he do that, if you've already rolled the distance?

In a somewhat related situation, several players I've played are still in the habit of piling-in after being charged. Again, not intentional and not really an issue most of the time, unless they try to also try to take the pile-in at the initiative step.

*****
EDIT: The part I put in about charging through terrain didn't get added...


The first model does have to be the closest, by the shortest route, and if this takes him through cover. The remaining models are moved as the assaulting player wishes with the restriction that they end in coherency with any of the models that have moved, etc.The problem that has come up is the rule that mentions if any of the models have to move through cover, then the test is made on the 3D6". Often times we won't know this till after the test is rolled, so there are two sides to how to resolve this, and I think you'll find that people will often pick what suits them best in the situation, rather than be consistent.

1) If any models in the charging unit within the max potential assault range before rolling would go over terrain, then you take the test on 3D6". Since models are forced to get into base contact when possible, any model that can do so if the max distance is rolled it forces the Terrain test, even if the closest model isn't in or affected by terrain.

2) Players aren't forced to move every model by the shortest distance, only the first one. So they will use the part where if a model can't make base contact it must remain try to get as close as possible. They will use this to say that it's because of the terrain that they can't make base contact. So there is a conflict within the rules as to which one has the clear precedent. This is the minority argument. It's relevant to what you posted since that's what it appears someone tried to do to you, or tell you that you can do.

Refer them to the FAQ if they bring this up, it's been resolved. They have to test.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/02/14 14:48:26


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Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Good summary on declaring charges. Remember also that if you fail to reach your primary target, you don't get to assault at all.

 Akar wrote:
The first model does have to be the closest, by the shortest route, and if this takes him through cover. The remaining models are moved as the assaulting player wishes with the restriction that they end in coherency with any of the models that have moved, etc.The problem that has come up is the rule that mentions if any of the models have to move through cover, then the test is made on the 3D6". Often times we won't know this till after the test is rolled, so there are two sides to how to resolve this, and I think you'll find that people will often pick what suits them best in the situation, rather than be consistent.

1) If any models in the charging unit within the max potential assault range before rolling would go over terrain, then you take the test on 3D6". Since models are forced to get into base contact when possible, any model that can do so if the max distance is rolled it forces the Terrain test, even if the closest model isn't in or affected by terrain.

2) Players aren't forced to move every model by the shortest distance, only the first one. So they will use the part where if a model can't make base contact it must remain try to get as close as possible. They will use this to say that it's because of the terrain that they can't make base contact. So there is a conflict within the rules as to which one has the clear precedent. This is the minority argument. It's relevant to what you posted since that's what it appears someone tried to do to you, or tell you that you can do.

Refer them to the FAQ if they bring this up, it's been resolved. They have to test.

I actually play by an even stricter version of 1. If ANY possible roll (from 2 to 12) would result in models passing through difficult terrain to maximize contact, you need to roll 3d6. Sometimes a 12" move would enable models to move around terrain and maximize contact, but a 6" (for example) move would mean models would need to pass through that same terrain to actually make contact or get within 2" of a friendly model in base contact.

Generally speaking, when in doubt, you need to eat the 3d6.

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 Mannahnin wrote:
Good summary on declaring charges. Remember also that if you fail to reach your primary target, you don't get to assault at all.

Thanks for bringing that part up, I have seen players attempt to charge the Secondary unit without being able to reach the Primary!

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 Mannahnin wrote:
I actually play by an even stricter version of 1. If ANY possible roll (from 2 to 12) would result in models passing through difficult terrain to maximize contact, you need to roll 3d6. Sometimes a 12" move would enable models to move around terrain and maximize contact, but a 6" (for example) move would mean models would need to pass through that same terrain to actually make contact or get within 2" of a friendly model in base contact.
It's a good point that using the maximum range fails to guarantee that no models will go through terrain, but there's not really any rule support for the "worst-case scenario" interpretation; forcing the roll to go through terrain when they're not is actually against the rules, strictly speaking. I prefer the "roll 2 dice and an extra, factor in the third die if the result of the first two puts you in terrain" interpretation, as it satisfies all the relevant rules and isn't so draconian.
   
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I think the most restrictive interpretation is most in line with the rules. While your suggested way to play it makes a lot of sense, it doesn't match the rules as described.

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More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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Out of my Mind

Pyrian wrote:
It's a good point that using the maximum range fails to guarantee that no models will go through terrain, but there's not really any rule support for the "worst-case scenario" interpretation; forcing the roll to go through terrain when they're not is actually against the rules, strictly speaking. I prefer the "roll 2 dice and an extra, factor in the third die if the result of the first two puts you in terrain" interpretation, as it satisfies all the relevant rules and isn't so draconian.


The FAQ changed so to 'One or more models... by the shortest route'. So before you charge, wouldn't this mean that you check to see if any/all of the models in the charging unit can hit the first (closest) model, and see if any of them cross Difficult Terrain? There is nothing stating that the assaulting unit has to move through Difficult Terrain, but we're actually talking about before you roll dice. I think your 2+1 method would work in the rare cases that the closest model would happen to be the shortest distance to every model in the charging unit, but I don't see that happening too often (but it is possible.)

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