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Heya everybody,

I have been a long time fan of the Thousand Sons and thought it was time to start getting an army together.
Since, at least it appears to me that, Thousand Sons aren't exactly the most competitive army out there, it doesn't have to be a "win at all cost" list, but some effectiveness would be nice.
So without further ado:

*************** 2 HQ ***************
Ahriman
- - - > 230 Points

Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Mastery level 2, Terminator armor
+ 1 x Kombi-bolter, 1 x Force axe
- - - > 125 Points

*************** 1 Elite ***************
6 Chaos Terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, 1 x Power sword, 2 x Power axe, 1 x Power maul, 1x Chain fist, 1 x Kombi-Flamer, 2 x Kombi-Plasma, 2x Kombi-melta 1 x Reaper Autocannon
+ Champion, 1 x Kombi-Melta, 1 x Power maul
- - - > 282 Points

*************** 3 Troops ***************
6 Thousand Sons
+ Aspiring Sorcerer, Force weapon, Bolt pistol
- - - > 173 Points

6 Thousand Sons
+ Aspiring Sorcerer, Force weapon, Bolt pistol
+ Rhino
- - - > 208 Points

6 Thousand Sons
+ Aspiring Sorcerer, Force weapon, Bolt pistol
+ Rhino
- - - > 208 Points

*************** 2 Heavy Support ***************
5 Havocs, 4 x Autocannons
+ Champion
- - - > 115 Points

5 Havocs, 4 x Rocket launcher, 2 x Flakk missiles
+ Champion
- - - > 155 Points

=> Total Points: 1496

So the general tactic would be the following. Havocs stay behind cover and do their thing, killing stuff that needs to be killed. The TS squad without a Rhino tries to hold the home objective, should there be one. Ahriman, for lack of there being a unit he could be useful in, joins one of the two remaining TS squads, that will dash forward and open a can of psychic whoop-ass on my enemy... and capture objectives. And last but not least, the terminator squad, joined by the sorcerer, will deepstrike and unload some kombi goodness and psychic ass kicking on what ever needs to go, all the while screaming "Come at me bro". The hope is that given it's diverse weaponry and good saves, the terminator squad should be good enough of a distraction to keep the pressure of the relatively few other units I actually have.
All in all I actually do not see this list succeeding against... pretty much anything, given how unpredictable sorcerers can be and me bringing 5 of them along, with barely anything else that's really threatening.
So tell me dakka, is this list "good" as it is or can it be bettered without changing the core concept?

Peace n' Love
FFE

If you really want more units try out cultists with MoT. They normally have a 6+ armor save, but MoT will give them a 5++ invul save, for 1 point per model.

If you do not plan on infiltrating then drop ahriman to take more units.

 Filch wrote:
If you really want more units try out cultists with MoT. They normally have a 6+ armor save, but MoT will give them a 5++ invul save, for 1 point per model.

If you do not plan on infiltrating then drop ahriman to take more units.

You're sure about this? The MoT increases the inv save by 1, so I guess they would get an 6++ save, not an 5++ save.

The army seems okay but skip a squad of thousand sons and put in a helldrake in the list

@Filch I'm kind of with Anatholos regarding the invul save. Are you sure they don't simply have a 6++ save with the MoT?
I would like to keep Ahriman, simply because I find him pretty bad-ass, but putting him in a group of 30 cultists and infiltrating said squad might be somewhat effective.

@Anatholos I'm not too fond of the helldrake. Not because it's bad, because it surely isn't. I guess it's more the aestetics (which admittedly can be changed) and the fact that I don't want to cut too many troops. Would it be worth exchanging a squad of havocs for the drake?

MoT only gives a 6++ to any models that do not already have an invuln save. That being said, on to list critique...

Taking Ahriman AND a Tzeentch sorc in 1500 pts is far too many points in HQ's. They both will unlock TS's as troops, so they are redundant & @ this pts level unnecessary. Take one or the other, but not both. I would suggest the Sorc to go w/ the Termies. That being said...

You have too many termies & an unnecessary weapon on them - the Reaper. It's not synergistic w/ the rest of the squad (& IMO, our worst termy weapon). Take the heavy flamer instead. Cheaper & more inline w/ the 'come @ me bro' thinking behind them. At this pts level I would suggest no more than 4. Not sure the reasonings behind the power mauls either, unless you're just using the weapons from the box. As it stands, in six models, you only have two weapons in the squad capable of penetrating 2+ armor in melee. If they get caught in combat w/ another termy squad they're gonna get it handed to them, simply because they can't dish the wounds. Powerfists & axes are the order of the day.

You need more models in your TS squads. TS's die to concentrated bolter fire just like any other marine, so you need to bump the numbers. I would suggest 9 simply as it's the sacred number of Tzeentch. This is especially true in the footslogging unit. Ditching Ahriman & those two termies should free up the pts for this. I also think that anything over two squads of TS's limit you a bit, simply because they carry no special/heavy weapons. I would honestly change the on foot TS squad to a squad of standard CSM w/ an ML or AC, since your intent is for it to be sitting on a home obj. Maybe even a lascannon since you have no way of popping anything AV14. Gives you just a bit more long range punch.

The Havocs are solid, I would personally drop the Flakk missiles, but my meta is surprisingly low flier. The AC's should be more than up to the task for fliers anyway, especially since you only took two Flakk upgrades; statisticly eight AC shots hitting on 6's should hit just about the same amt of times that two flakk missiles will - and they're both S7.

TS's can be incredibly competetive in anything but the most competetive environments or tourney scenes. Obviously they're far from the best unit in our book, but they have a place & when used correctly & w/ a bit of thought they're really a fun unit. You just have to make sure you give them the special weapon support they need.

~Vryce

@Vryce Thanks for the input. Given what has been said, I've updated the army list.
IMHO this list is actually not half bad. Thoughts?
(Btw. please excuse any mistakes in the army list, I'm translating this stuff from german and some things might have slipped through the translation )

*************** 1 HQ ***************
Sorcerer, Mark of Tzeentch, Mastery level 2, Terminator armor
+ 1 x Kombi-bolter, 1 x Force axe
- - - > 125 Points

*************** 2 Elite ***************
5 Chaos Terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, 1 x Power sword, 2 x Power axe, 1 x Chain-fist, 1 x Kombi-Flamer, 2 x Kombi-Plasma, 1 x Heavy Flamer
+ Champion, 1 x Kombibolter, 1 x Power axe
- - - > 219 Points

4 Chaos Terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, 2 x Power axe, 1 x Power sword, 3 x Kombi-Melta
+ Champion, 1 x Kombibolter, 1 x Power-fist
- - - > 171 Points

*************** 3 Troops ***************
10 Chaos Space Marines, Plasmagun, Lasercannon
+ Champion -> 10 Pkt.
- - - > 175 Points

9 Thousand Sons
+ Sorcerer, Force weapon, Bolt pistol -> 35 Pkt.
+ Rhino -> 35 Pkt.
- - - > 277 Points

9 Thousand Sons
+ Sorcerer, Force weapon, Bolt pistol -> 35 Pkt.
+ Rhino -> 35 Pkt.
- - - > 277 Points

*************** 2 Heavy Support ***************

5 Havocs, 4 x Autocannons
+ Champion
- - - > 115 Points

5 Havocs, 3 x Rocket launcher, 1x Laser cannon
+ Champion
- - - > 140 Points

EDIT: that should be a total of 1499 points

I still feel you have too many points invested in your Elite section. I can see no real reason for a CSM army to be fielding 10 terminators in a 1500pt game. Our terminators really aren't all that fantastic & the points could be better spent elsewhere - ditching the 5 man squad would free up the points for a full three man squad of Obliterators which over the course of the game would probably be more cost effecitive. Or even another squad of CSM. 2/3 of the scenarios involve capturing objectives & the more squads you have that are capable of capturing & holding them, the better off you're generally going to be. The mix of a Lascannon + ML's in a Havoc squad, also kind of puzzles me - simply because if you're shooting @ AV14, the best you can hope for w/ the ML's is a glancing hit & only a 16% chance to boot. Or, if you're using the frag missiles to foot troops, the lascannon ends up being a bit of a waste. We're not Space Wolves, we don't get to split fire w/ our Havocs. IMO, when kitting out Havocs, go for all of the same weapon; you're never going to want to shoot a lascannon @ the same target you're gonna bring an AC against, for example. One or the other is either wasted or ineffective. On VERY rare occasions, I might have a mix of AC's & ML's in one squad, but by & large, you're always going to be better off w/ all of the same weapons.

If you get rid of the 5 man terminator squad you should have the pts left to give the 2nd Havoc squad all lascannons & then give both squads the Icon of Vengeance for Fearless, which could come in handy once you start taking heavy fire on them.

~Vryce

I disagree with the above. The reaper and the Terminators synergise very well with thousand sons. The power swords however do not.

The thousand sons have great AP3 and are weak to massed light fire. So you either take stuff that's good against light fire (i.e. Vehicles) or something that distracts attention from the TS Terminators fall into the later category. They also lack special weapons so you need good fire support vehicles or units with lots of special weapons.

So that means units that would synergise well with TS are:

Chosen - but the accentuate the weakness to light arms by again being expensive 3+ save models.
Fire support vehicles - unfortunately chaos don't have great options here. Forgefiends are good but really expensive in an TS army so low on model count. Dreads have no good fire support option. That leaves preds as the only viable option.
Oblits - 2+ saves and equipped to deal with any situation great options.
Terminators - again 2+ save and be equipped with combi-spam power mauls and axes. Another great option.

Id take oblits over the havocs and possibly a pair of preds.

Id take multiple units of 3-5 terminators equipped for a specific role like anti light vehicle and TEQ but giving them combiplasmas and power mauls. Anti heavy vehicle with combi-melta and power/chain fists. Or counter assault with power axes combiplasmas and reaper.

The helldrake is also a great addition.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I disagree with the above. The reaper and the Terminators synergise very well with thousand sons. The power swords however do not.

I never said the Terminators didn't synergize w/ the TS's, what I said was that the Reaper didn't synergize w/ the weapon loadout the Terminators were carrying. Combi-weapon spam is fantastic on termies, but again, having 10 terminators in 1500 pts is entirely too much.

I would also agree that the Oblits would be the prefered HS option & I failed to ask if the OP actually had any models for them, but I was more concerned w/ critiquing what he had listed.

~Vryce

I think you have to drop arhiman, he is just not effective enough for his points.

I'd use the points for some MoN oblits they are just too good not to have.

I disagree Ahriman isn't worth his points but I agree he should be dropped. Points are too tight in TS list at 1500 for him to be justified. 1750 is the minimum he should be considered for.

125 points gets you a LvL2 Tzeentch sorcerer in terminator armour this would be my choice to lead the army at 1500.

I am A Thousand Sons player since 5th. As soon as 6th hit TS became extremely slow and Rhinos became a lot less durable. Then new chaos codex came and did nothing to TS at all besides weaken the attached sorcerer.

The traditional TS army is dead, there is no possibility of it being effective against any other army.

This is the only TS list i can think of that will be even slightly fun to play with. No, never mind, this list is horrible...

Sorcerer level 3 spell familiar 125

5 units of 10 cultists with five point flamer?

3 units of 10 TS inside rhinos

3 units of 2 obliterators with mark of whatever

UGGGGGggggg.... there is so much ap3 in the chaos book that the TS are extremely redundant. A three drake list would be cheaper points and more effective, and that pisses me off.