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I'm getting close to finishing painting my vampire counts and am looking for something new. I don't really know any of the intricacies of the army but my understanding is you don't want to make a stationary gunline, you want to take advantage of the fact you can move and shoot with no penalties and make a gunline that marches backwards while shooting then redirects opponents away.

So my list:

Lords
Highborn (233pts)
- Armour of destiny, shield, bow of loren

Spellwaver (350pts)
- Lore of Life, level 4
- Talisman of preservation, wand of wych elm

Heroes
Branchwraith (115pts)
- A cluster of radiants, a murder of sprites

Noble (140pts)
- BSB
- Oaken armour

Core
11 Glade guard (132pts)

11 Glade guard (132pts)

11 Glade guard (132pts)

5 Glade riders (120pts)

5 Glade riders (120pts)

5 Glade riders (120pts)

Special
5 Tree kin (325pts)

3 Warhawk riders (120pts)

3 Warhawk riders (120pts)

Rare
Great eagle (50pts)

Great eagle (50pts)

10 Waywatchers (240pts)

Highborn, Spellweaver and Noble all get their own unit of glade guard to hide in, branchwraith goes in with the tree kin. The idea is to dance around the enemy while shooting at the enemy, using the riders and the flyers to keep them away from the archers. I'm not entirely sure how I'd deal with hordes but anything below 40 men should hopefully be able to be thinned out by shooting before the tree kin charge in and break them.

Also I realize I've got no commands on anything, I am wondering just how important they are and what the best thing to drop to fit them in would be.

Typically with Wood Elves you do not want to take a Highborn unless you have a specific build in mind for him, specifically Dragon Riders.

With the Branchwraith the Murder of Sprites is pretty redundant as the unit (Wraith + Dryads) already has magical attacks (Forest Spirit) so really you are paying for a random amount of s2 poisoned attacks which I do not think is worth it.

The BSB build is ok, a very good build for the BSB is Light Armour, Asyendi's Bane, Dragonhelm and Hail of Doom Arrow. Asyendi's bane is taken as the BSB upgrade removes the longbow (for some strange reason) the HoDA is a great purchase for a one use item 3D6 magical S4 arrows while still retaining some protection with a 5+/2++ to fire

With your core ideally you want one largish unit of Glade Guard with Musician, Standard and Banner of Eternal Flame so that this unit can peg the odd wound or two off of a regnerating unit before the rest of your Glade guard open fire. Typically I take one unit of 16-18 (with above mus, std, boef) and a couple of units of 10 with musician so that you can swift reform.

I don't like running Glade Riders, they just don't seemt o work for me and I love fast cavalry normally. in their place I'd run a few more units of 10 Glade Guard or a couple units of Dryads for the Branchwraith to hang out in, as they really are a great skirmishing unit that can do well in combat

I'm not a huge fan of the Treekin personally, you either like them or don't and I'm one of those that doesn't like them.

Warhawk Riders on the other hand I love and I always run with two units of 3 for redirection (as I cannot afford more than a single Eagle with my rare selection)

Eagles are a great choice to take

Waywatchers are brilliant for psychological warfare, usually just saying that they have killing blow on their shooting attacks is enough for someone to make a rash decision to send a large proportion of their army (in points) after the unit.

As for your Command Comment, Musicians are a must in Wood Elf units as you're likely to flee with your Glade Guard units if endangered by an enemy so you really want the musician for the benefit to the rally roll and also so you can swift reform to face a new direction for wood elves they're invaluable.

Banners not so much, typically I take a BSB and 1 other banner in the army which makes a low fortitude army for Blood and Glory but in those game I just hide my banners and focus on taking out my enemies

Good luck with the Asrai

Alright, lose the highborn, got it. Do I want to replace him with a treeman ancient thingy or is this just an army that goes light on lords and heroes?

I like the look of Hail of Doom Arrow but isn't Asyendi's Bane a really dumb choice for a BSB since it can end up hurting him?

Treekin and glade riders both seem like units I'd want to proxy before buying but for now I think I'll keep them in the list and see what happens.


After dropping the highborn and the murder sprites then reshuffling the glade guard to 10 with muso/10 with muso/18 with banner, muso and flaming banner I have 160 points to play with, any suggestions?

Looks good if you take the advice from jono, is this meant to be friendly or competitive? This list needs a little work to get it to tournament level but for friendly games its great.

At the moment it is more a friendly thing. I wouldn't mind getting them there eventually but my VC are still my tourney list, all I want right now is something that can hold its own.

It depends really, in my 2.5k Tourney list I run 3 Treemen (well 1 Ancient and 2 Treemen) as I like to be able to throw them into units and halt the advance for a while, this buys me time to find a work around for a really powerful unit.

Asyendi's Bane is a bit of a gamble, however you do not need to re roll your misses as the wording is "MAY re roll" its only those re rolls that miss that inflict a S3 hit.

Treekin are definately a personal choice I feel, I ran them for a while in combination with Wild Riders as a hammer and anvil tactic which works well, however it leads the army to being very one dimensional.

160 Points? I think a suicide noble would be great.
Noble, Waradancer Kindred, Blades of Loec, Other Tricksters Shard - 155 points. Kindred choice gives him access to shadow dances, ItP and a Ward Save from the Talismanic Tattoos. Shadow Dances can give him Killing Blow, +1 Attack, 4++ or ASF (at thecost of 1A) his magic weapon gives him re rolls t0wound making Killing Blow more likely and Other Tricksters Shard obviously to force your opponent to re roll. I tend to either issue a challange or target a mage/bsb with killing Blow, then switch the noble to have a 4++ ward save if he survive to retailiating attacks and smash a Treeman into the unit

There's nothing wrong with the foot Highborn as a choice, you just have to know what you want him to do- as it stands, your item loadout doesn't really do anything. Drop the Armour of Destiny (he doesn't need a ward save) and give him instead the Charmed Shield, Annoyance of Nettlings and Arcane Bodkins- without this last item, the Bow of Loren is utterly worthless.

The level 4 equally doesn't need a ward save, MR3 would be a much better item to take on her. I personally prefer the Dispel Scroll over the Wand. If you're happy with just MR2, she can also get the Moonstone.

The Branchwraith doesn't need A Murder of Spites, it won't do anything. Without Treemen, you're not very weak to magic, so I wouldn't bother with her at all.

The BSB currently does nothing with his items, he doesn't need regen. Give him Asyendi's Bane and the Hail of Doom Arrow.

All of the Glade Guard units need musicians. Also, make one unit bigger and put in the flaming banner.

Glade Riders are utterly awful, one of the worst units in the entire game hands down. YIf you're building a list specifically designed to double flee, then drop 2 units and get a 3rd unit of hawks. Otherwise, just drop them outright and get more Glade Guard instead.

Treekin are pretty divisive, some people love them some people hate them. I think they're utter garbage.

Warhawks aren't very good. They double flee very well, but do absolutely nothing beyond that. As above, if you're not designing the list for double fleeing, drop them and get more Glade Guard.

Those 10 Waywatchers are in 2 units right? Please?

Alright so if warhawks, gale riders and treekin are no good what would you suggest to replace them (in addition to more glade guard)?

At least 2 unit of 8 Dryads would be a good start, maybe a Noble on an eagle.

I'm not sure why you'd bother with Asyendi's Bane. It doesn't combo the Hail of doom arrow, if that's what people are hoping for, and other than that it's just a slightly better bow. That can kill you. Why waste 10 points?

I wouldn't discount the treekin entirely- they're pretty heavy hitting and pretty tough to boot, so long as you're not facing a lot of fire.
apart from that, good advice so far!


Az

jonolikespie wrote:I'm getting close to finishing painting my vampire counts and am looking for something new. I don't really know any of the intricacies of the army but my understanding is you don't want to make a stationary gunline, you want to take advantage of the fact you can move and shoot with no penalties and make a gunline that marches backwards while shooting then redirects opponents away.

So my list:

Lords
Highborn (233pts)
- Armour of destiny, shield, bow of loren
This dude isn't really doing to much, if you are going to take the bow of loren, arcane bodkins are a must, additionally WE characters never see combat long enough to need a save, so don't worry about it.

Spellwaver (350pts)
- Lore of Life, level 4
- Talisman of preservation, wand of wych elm
See above about the save, otherwise pretty solid

Heroes
Branchwraith (115pts)
- A cluster of radiants, a murder of sprites
Branchwraiths are pretty bad, not in of themselves, but because the only unit they can really join is a chaff unit.

Noble (140pts)
- BSB
- Oaken armour
If you take a BSB, make sure you give him Asyendi's Bane (cheapest magic bow) and the Hail of Doom Arrow

Core
11 Glade guard (132pts)

11 Glade guard (132pts)

11 Glade guard (132pts)
These guys need a musician for rally attempts and swift reforms, additionally, one unit should be about 16 - 20 strong with at least musician and flaming banner

5 Glade riders (120pts)

5 Glade riders (120pts)

5 Glade riders (120pts)
Glade riders are fun, kinda and they aren't bad persay, its just, paying 24/model with only a 5+ save and T3 is not good, its not good at all, drop them in favour of 2x8 dryads

Special
5 Tree kin (325pts)
Tree kin are solid because they allow you to permenatley hold in combat that which you can't kill with shooting + combined charges later, I run 2x3 quite a number of games and the amount of hydras and hellpits they've held up for me is invaluable, although some people have gotten a block of 6 in 3x2 formation to work. Tree kin are a unit that you either hate or you don't, some people like me, some don't *glares at tmarichards*

3 Warhawk riders (120pts)

3 Warhawk riders (120pts)
no experience with these guys, although they appear on the face to be more competent glade riders.
Rare
Great eagle (50pts)

Great eagle (50pts)
Eagles are hands down the best unit for their points cost, brining high mobility, even for a chaff unit.

10 Waywatchers (240pts)
I don't like big units of waywatchers, but if you can make a large unit work then more power to you

Highborn, Spellweaver and Noble all get their own unit of glade guard to hide in, branchwraith goes in with the tree kin. The idea is to dance around the enemy while shooting at the enemy, using the riders and the flyers to keep them away from the archers. I'm not entirely sure how I'd deal with hordes but anything below 40 men should hopefully be able to be thinned out by shooting before the tree kin charge in and break them.

Also I realize I've got no commands on anything, I am wondering just how important they are and what the best thing to drop to fit them in would be.

Aben Zin wrote:I'm not sure why you'd bother with Asyendi's Bane. It doesn't combo the Hail of doom arrow, if that's what people are hoping for, and other than that it's just a slightly better bow. That can kill you. Why waste 10 points?

I wouldn't discount the treekin entirely- they're pretty heavy hitting and pretty tough to boot, so long as you're not facing a lot of fire.
apart from that, good advice so far!


Az

Because the BSB loses his longbow and asyendi's bane is the cheapest of the magic bows in the magic items section.

I.. don't know why I assumed the branchwraith was monstrous infantry like the tree kin, I totally get why people are saying it's pointless now.

Out of curiosity is it worth trying to get in another lvl 1 or 2? My understanding of the WE lore is it's gak so hero level wizards that can only take it are pointless but is it worth it to get a dispell scroll and extra channel in?

Branchwraiths have a sense if you want more eagles. They play in a similar way and are relatively cheap, provided you don't give them anything.

Dryads are a great screen to use when you want to cover the fleeing glade guards.

Wardancers are another good unit. Just remember that, as with all WE units, except the treeman and the treekin, they'll have a hard time dealing with any enemy unit that hasn't been weakened by shooting and magic cirst. WDs also make for great mage bodyguards.

As for command groups, don't bother with the glade guard champion. Always give them a musician, since they'll be fleeing and reforming a lot, and give a few some banners specifically for blood and glory.

I've seen a guy take a level 2 mage with Calaingor's staff; it's a mean thing to have on board, but you have to be able to plan ahead its use. Personally, I don't play it. What I do play (in addition to the mandatory weaver) are the sisters on eagle (important). AFAIK the community is divided on them. Try them out, see if you like the extra eagle and the harrassment.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I.. don't know why I assumed the branchwraith was monstrous infantry like the tree kin, I totally get why people are saying it's pointless now.

Out of curiosity is it worth trying to get in another lvl 1 or 2? My understanding of the WE lore is it's gak so hero level wizards that can only take it are pointless but is it worth it to get a dispell scroll and extra channel in?

Personally I don't think it'll be worth it, a Branchwraith with Cluster is useful to gain an additional dispel dice or having Divination Orb on a spell weaver (my favourite) but it's really personal choice and knowing your meta (i.e. do you have a LOT of targets for tree singing?)

 jonolikespie wrote:
I.. don't know why I assumed the branchwraith was monstrous infantry like the tree kin, I totally get why people are saying it's pointless now.

Out of curiosity is it worth trying to get in another lvl 1 or 2? My understanding of the WE lore is it's gak so hero level wizards that can only take it are pointless but is it worth it to get a dispell scroll and extra channel in?

The WE lore is kinda eh, but it is currently the only way to charge outside of the movement phase which can catch people off guard and the number two spell is pretty funny on a blood forest

It might be boring in terms of units, but here is the list I won the Rock Wars GT with in September 2012.

Highborn with Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins (LD 10 bubble)

Spellweaver (LVL 4), Lore of Life, Wand of Wyche Elm

Noble with Asendi's Bane, Hail of Doom Arrow, BSB

Spellsinger (LVL 1), Divination Orb (extra DD)

20 Glade Guard, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame

10 Glade Guard, Musician

10 Glade Guard, Musician

10 Glade Guard, Musician

10 Glade Guard, Musician

6 Treekin (Good for wearing down hordes with S3/4)

2x Treeman

Lots of shooting, decent close combat from the treekin/treemen. Demands alot of patience to do well.

Aben Zin wrote:
I'm not sure why you'd bother with Asyendi's Bane. It doesn't combo the Hail of doom arrow, if that's what people are hoping for, and other than that it's just a slightly better bow. That can kill you. Why waste 10 points?

Why? the WE BSB loses his bow when he becomes the BSB.