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Or you can read the rulebook and see that wounds can be allocated to any model in a unit, regardless of whether it is engaged or not. You just have to start with the closest model and you can't inflict wounds if you aren't engaged.

As for falling out of combat, it happens, but is extremely rare since you have to kill enough models in one go to open up either a 9+" gap if you swing first or a 6+" gap if you swing last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

somerandomdude wrote:
So Snapshot's quote of page 25 above was completely fabricated?

No. If it was fabricated, then it was fabricated by Mat Ward because the same quote is in both the hardcover rulebook and the pocket edition from Dark Vengeance. Nothing in the rulebook FAQ contradicts this portion of the main rules either.

Ailarios makes a good argument. The only problem tactically is that spreading out to max coherency makes it hard to gain cover and have effective sightlines on opponents. My thunderwolf deathstar runs into problems with beating itself out of combat range. This can be partially mitigated by 12" move speed the cavalry has and the effect of fleet in assault ranges allowing me to base more models. I also go for multi-assaults in many cases trying to tag into as many units as possible. I eat some overwatch doing this, but a little overwatch is nothing compared to the amount of firepower i will be hit with if I don't multi-assault.

I think what it comes down to is this, initiative has not been nerfed in CC. Swinging first means less hits back, if you were going to kill your way out of combat it is harder to do if you swing first, you are better at sweeping advance. The only slight nerf it has taken is if you are unable to become engaged at your initiative step. If this is the case you lose your attacks, and then the enemy gets to hit you.

Wow, for some reason I thought you could only kill engaged models in close combat. That's actually sort of cool.

 Ailaros wrote:
So, let's look at page 22 of the rulebook.

In the charge phase, all you do is move the attacking models by the amount they rolled to get into close combat. Pile-in doesn't happen until the fight sub-phase.

In the fight sub-phase, everything happens in initiative order. So, let's say you've got some I5 guys that for some reason haven't made it into 2" of something. They get a 3" move at the beginning of their fight phase.

Then, said I5 guys kill a bunch of guardsmen. Let's say that it's a bit over 6" of them. This is actually pretty easy to achieve against properly displaced units. It could be (and I've seen it be) literally as few as three infantry models killed.

Then, we go to I3, where those guardsmen get to make their pile-in move. But now scoot just down the page to this little gem:

If both players' Pile In moves combined would be insufficient to bring any combatants back together, the assault comes to an end. All remaining Initiative steps are lost.

Can the guardsmen's 3" pile in move bring them into contact? No. If both the guardsmen and the enemy unit piled in, could they make contact? No.

Therefore, the assault just ends, right there and then. Both sides consolidate.

GW does say that it's "very unlikely" that units are going to be killed in assault in such a way where models will be more than 6" apart in any initiative step, but clearly they lacked creativity, because I've seen this on multiple occasions now.

LIke others have mentioned in this thread the page 22 reference does not say consolidate it says see page 26 to see how to work out the results. And in the case of passed morale checks/fearless units then both sides again consolidate 3". So basically its near impossible to happen, in fact the only times Ive done it is with a death company dreadnought with blood talons, which is a single model rather then a unit which makes it easier since he stops when he hits the first model. For multi model units I feel like it would be even harder. Even for a one model unit that doesnt make consolidate moves it would have to kill all the models in a 9" radius from itself.


For the most part high initiative is a big bonus in 6th. You can kill a bunch of things around you and limit the number of attacks you can take back. With super high initiative characters and the new interaction of sweeping assaults you can keep yourself from getting swept or make it easier to sweep or lock others(marines). I use Vect and with i8 he auto catches anything i3 or lower, catches marines on a 2 and most characters on a 3... and thats with all those categories rolling 6's. This is great because especially with marines it means they wont flee and I can stay nice and safe in combat with them.

Yup, it is not very common, the only time I have had it happen is in multi-assaults, where one of my units ties up the opponent and my pile in does not move me into range.

Sidetracking a little bit from this very interesting conversation here, but...if you wanna know how important Initiative is in close combat...ask any Blood Angel player how hard the Furious Charge nerf hit us.

...no don't, I'll tell you. It SUCKS. Big time.

The entire argument against High Initiative stems from not knowing when failed consolidates end combat and not knowing how wounds are allocated in Assault. If you actually know he the game works, it is obvious how important Iniative is.

There is a slight advantage to slow initiative as well. If you pile in last you can occasionally pick what models take the wounds dealt.

I play about 4-6 games a week and I've only seen the failed consolidate twice since 6th started. It's 100% from the combination of high inti opponenet assaulting into a conga line. You just get merc'd by bullets the next turn. It's just one more tactic you have to keep in mind. You just can't just MAIM! KILL! BURN! through the lines.

Nevermind me, found it!

 Goat wrote:
I play about 4-6 games a week and I've only seen the failed consolidate twice since 6th started. It's 100% from the combination of high inti opponenet assaulting into a conga line. You just get merc'd by bullets the next turn. It's just one more tactic you have to keep in mind. You just can't just MAIM! KILL! BURN! through the lines.

In 6th you hardly get to MAIM!KILL!BURN! at all, given the ban on assaulting out of unmoving vehicles, overwatch (a factor if you play DE, Eldar or Daemons), random charges through terrain and other obstacles. adding another way to fail at getting (or staying) in CC certainly doesn't help.