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I posted a fairly length post today on my blog where I write up an editorial on the new Dark Angels codex. You can check out the full post at Pensacola Warhammer

The basic summary is that the new codex is okay, but there are just so many small issues and flaws that prevent this codex from being something really great and special. Here's a quick run down on the first part of my editorial that will probably end up being at least one more post.

Warlord Traits and Dark Angels Special rules - Honestly not much to really complain about here. I would like my special characters to have something other than the Hunt, and I think there could have be a few of the warlord traits dropped for more "fluffy" and useful ones.
HQ selection - The HQ selection is alright. Again, I would have liked to see at least one of the HQ choices a bit better in close combat, but if GW is moving away from close combat, which I doubt, then it is a pointless issue. I don't understand why Azrael, the Grand Master and leader of the whole Dark Angels chapter, is not an Eternal Warrior, but Sammael, a company master, is. I also don't understand why the three grand masters' swords that were created at the same time from the same piece of rock all have different stats.
The Command Squads - I love the idea of the command squads, and adding in the speical banners makes me really like them even more. However, how big of a target and the points cost of the banner coupled with the advent of Precision Shot make it hard to take a banner. Toss in the almost comical screw up that is the company champion with his Blade of Caliban, the only sword that is Unwieldy and only adds +1 strength, and there is little reason to take a command squad.

As I state in my post, this is not me bashing or calling the codex horrible. It's merely me pointing out flaws that I see and wondering why in the world they are there and what could be done to fix them. Again, there are moments where this codex could have really been something great, but there are some many small flaws that stack up that end up hurting the codex This is especially true with how easy it is to fix many of these errors, flaws, or oversights.

Isn't this a pretty old review?

Honestly, I think the DA Codex was extremely poorly conceived.
DWK: Can't shoot in a shooting edition
Chapter Relics: Bad
Flyers: Terribad
Land Speeder Vengeance: Horribad
Asmodai, Ezekiel: Worse

How can a codex a year in development have all of its new additions be unplayable?

Here's probably the most brutally honest review of it, which I mostly agree with:
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2013/02/dark-angels-final-requiem/

This always happens though, the DA codex comes out first in the new edition, it's considered balanced, and

I guess after 14 years things don't really change DA always get shafted in the end

text removed.
Reds8n

Yeah... Ouch.

The op linked article is terrible. First, his punctuation and grammar are lacking. Second, he drops way too many f bombs and other curses. Makes him look childish and immature. Third, he does not explain WHY some unit is bad. Just " x unit f-ing garbage! This unit, overpriced!" And so on. If your going to so fiercely call out something, provide some support to your argument.

Needless to say, I think the article was not useful, and was an ill conceived rant by a guy who wanted some OP BS like BA or WHFB daemons, has probally played perhaps 10 games in his life, and stomps his feet and cries each time he lost.

Dark Angels is by and large a poor Codex.

CSM is kinda wonky and odd too.

Games Workshop really needs to put their top writers to 40K again, not the 2nd tier Skaven/Dreadfleet fail-crew.

From my moniker, you can guess that i am first and formost a Dark Angel Player... My impression of the new codex is it is not unbalanced but neither is it OP.

Synergy force multipliers: This is the biggest strength of the codex. The relic banners, dark shrouds and divination psykers make for numerous combinations that can work and lead to different types of builds to the army and at that not at a high cost to model.

Interesting - Special characters - limited use but still interesting options and situational reasons.
Black Knights - TL Plasma and Grenade launchers as well as rending attacks make for some interesting options.
Deathwing - I don't think this has been fully thought through but between 6th ed and the new codex I feel that the DW has been restored to being a great option for anyone and the DW is restored to a preeminent place as the best terminator army.

Fails - Both flyers... Sorry but S6 missiles and a TL HB just don't cut it for an air superiority fighter at 150+ cost. Same for the bomber with nothing bigger than a blast template at S5. Especially when compared to the CSM mecha-dragon not to mention the Vendetta.

Overall I like it because of the options it allows for but it is not the uber codex. Overall it is good but that is with the caveat that it is an early codex in 6th ed. Now if the IG comes out with major cost reductions or SM end up with all the goodies that DA have with their new release (as is the history of GW codex creep) then all bets are off.

Well, the analysis made by the one whose name is not being spoken here is disillusioning.

When in the hell did Ezkiel become bad? He's a ML 3 psyker, with an anti character/teq ability, gives you a stark advantage in, close combat over most units, is ws 6 himself and has a 2+ (this is big this edition) he's a bargain and a half at 145

As far as the rest of the codex it is solid, is it gk or necrons? No but by the standards of 40k those armies are flawed balance wise, with no sort of internal balance they are a poor bar to measure dexes.

I think people are just butthurt they didn't get the I win button that gk and necrons were, I absolutely love the dex, their is tons of cool and competitve things going on with it, for those that have actual game skills and don't require the internet to tell them to spam one unit.

I have seen atleast 5 different competitve builds so far outta this dex in the form of blackknight dual deahstars, 120 power armored boots on the table, ravenwing /guard (which I play), Deathwing, pure ravenwing, list really goes on and these lists win games

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Isn't this a pretty old review?

Honestly, I think the DA Codex was extremely poorly conceived.
DWK: Can't shoot in a shooting edition
Chapter Relics: Bad
Flyers: Terribad
Land Speeder Vengeance: Horribad
Asmodai, Ezekiel: Worse

How can a codex a year in development have all of its new additions be unplayable?

Here's probably the most brutally honest review of it, which I mostly agree with:
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2013/02/dark-angels-final-requiem/

This always happens though, the DA codex comes out first in the new edition, it's considered balanced, and

I guess after 14 years things don't really change DA always get shafted in the end

You clearly have no idea what your talking about.

Deathwing knights are cheaper than th/ss termies with the same survivability, they are significantly better vs everything short of teq, hit at I order, and are str.10 for a round....yeah terribad, just like th/ss termies eh?

Chapter relics. Are you mad?? 30pts for str7 hit at I order ap3/2, this can become str 8 with furious charge, shroud and fnp on a bike chaplain to go everything hunting.... Sweet, the only naff one is the monster slayer.

Flyers, bad? No not even close, the fact.you think the nephilim is a anti flyer unit shows you have no clue, its anti light vehicle/infantry, the talon is also a force multiplyer, drop the bomb on a giant mob of orks and charge them with a tac squad.. Try it

Vengeance.. I agree

Ezekial..you think he sucks? Are you serial? Let's start with mind worm, a focussed witchfire, if your super characters get wounded by this say bye bye to your stats, mastery 3 means that he can go telepathy or divination to mess with your day, mastery 3 and mind worm plus ws6 means you again show that you have no idea what your talking about.

 DarthSpader wrote:
The op linked article is terrible. First, his punctuation and grammar are lacking. Second, he drops way too many f bombs and other curses. Makes him look childish and immature. Third, he does not explain WHY some unit is bad. Just " x unit f-ing garbage! This unit, overpriced!" And so on. If your going to so fiercely call out something, provide some support to your argument.

Needless to say, I think the article was not useful, and was an ill conceived rant by a guy who wanted some OP BS like BA or WHFB daemons, has probally played perhaps 10 games in his life, and stomps his feet and cries each time he lost.

The OP linked article is completely different from the one I linked. The article I linked is by Stelek, a tourney player with extensive experience and a good record, if somewhat aggravating personality.
It's the 21st century, swearing is commonplace.

Calm down, Formosa. There are certainly different angles to view this codex. If you play in a very competitive meta like me, it will be hard to pull it off.

DA Flyers are not the best ones in the game.
Special characters usually suck and Ezekiel is no exception.
DW Knights are generally hard to pull off since they are rather slow and are non-shooty. They die from small-arms fire like any other Termie unit.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the analysis made by the one whose name is not being spoken here is disillusioning.

The truth usually is, yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arthas367 wrote:
When in the hell did Ezkiel become bad? He's a ML 3 psyker, with an anti character/teq ability, gives you a stark advantage in, close combat over most units, is ws 6 himself and has a 2+ (this is big this edition) he's a bargain and a half at 145

As far as the rest of the codex it is solid, is it gk or necrons? No but by the standards of 40k those armies are flawed balance wise, with no sort of internal balance they are a poor bar to measure dexes.

I think people are just butthurt they didn't get the I win button that gk and necrons were, I absolutely love the dex, their is tons of cool and competitve things going on with it, for those that have actual game skills and don't require the internet to tell them to spam one unit.

I have seen atleast 5 different competitve builds so far outta this dex in the form of blackknight dual deahstars, 120 power armored boots on the table, ravenwing /guard (which I play), Deathwing, pure ravenwing, list really goes on and these lists win games

He has no anti Char/ TEQ ability, he has no invuln save and an AP3 sword. WS 6 is pretty useless. Arguably at 145 he's okay, but you can't put him in a bike or in termi armour for deepstriking, so he's not okay.

I agree it's the best dex we've had in ever, which isn't saying much. It's still filled to the brim with useless crap.

No, competitive DA have about two builds: Pure Ravenwing, which gets eaten hard by airforce/helldrakes, and Allied IG. Everything else isn't cost efficient.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

You clearly have no idea what your talking about.

Deathwing knights are cheaper than th/ss termies with the same survivability, they are significantly better vs everything short of teq, hit at I order, and are str.10 for a round....yeah terribad, just like th/ss termies eh?

Chapter relics. Are you mad?? 30pts for str7 hit at I order ap3/2, this can become str 8 with furious charge, shroud and fnp on a bike chaplain to go everything hunting.... Sweet, the only naff one is the monster slayer.

Flyers, bad? No not even close, the fact.you think the nephilim is a anti flyer unit shows you have no clue, its anti light vehicle/infantry, the talon is also a force multiplyer, drop the bomb on a giant mob of orks and charge them with a tac squad.. Try it

Vengeance.. I agree

Ezekial..you think he sucks? Are you serial? Let's start with mind worm, a focussed witchfire, if your super characters get wounded by this say bye bye to your stats, mastery 3 means that he can go telepathy or divination to mess with your day, mastery 3 and mind worm plus ws6 means you again show that you have no idea what your talking about.

No, TH/SS termies get a heavy weapon, which makes them better than Deathwing Knights automatically because you're doing damage in more than one phase. I love the models and the concept, however in this edition they're a points sink unless you base your list around them. If they could shoot, they would be competitive.

Chapter Relics: Lets see: Foe-Smiter: No. Lion's Roar: No. Mace of Redemption: for 30 points, not AP2. Monster Slayer: A joke. Shroud: 50points? Might as well buy a Darkshroud and shroud everyone else at the same time.

Said bike Interrogator Chaplain (Chaplains can not take Chapter Relics) costs as much as a Land Raider and is a single model with 3 wounds.

Nephilim: Overcosted and bad. Dark Talon: Str 5 no ap blast is a bad joke. Hurricanes are only good with the Dakka banner, and once you hover you're dead. Why would you ever charge orks with tactical marines when you can just shoot them? Even with -3WS and -3I (not that it matters, they were striking last anyway) the marines will still probably lose.

Ezekiel sucks because a Librarian costs half his points and accomplishes the same function, being a divination bot. The short range of his abilities means he'll use them once, maybe twice in a game.

Arguments from emotion aren't helpful, Formosa. Crunch the numbers, it's readily apparent how poorly thought out the DA codex was: only one of the new additions is actually fieldable (BKs) the rest are junk.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The OP linked article is completely different from the one I linked. The article I linked is by Stelek, a tourney player with extensive experience and a good record, if somewhat aggravating personality.
It's the 21st century, swearing is commonplace.

I lol'd.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion of Stelek, but wow.

Wow, in a few short hours, there is a lot to cover.
First

@Asmodia Asmodean
Ezkiel actually has a 2+ armor save. Small point to clarify.

Everyone else:
My article, the one that doesn't have swearing, I don't lash out against the codex. I don't believe it is a horrible codex. The points I'm pointing out are things that could have made this codex something really awesome without it being over powered while at the same time being easy fixes.

Azerael having Eternal Warrior - I just feel the Grand Master of the entire Dark Angels Chapter should be immune to Instant Death.

Ezekiel having an invul save - He's the Grand Master of the Librarians. Why doesn't he have and Iron Halo or something?

Asmodai - At the very least give him a gun.

The Three Grand Masters' swords - Why are the three swords that where created at the same time from the same chunk of rock have three different stat values? I would like to standardize them.

More named characters - Most of these I would like to see as squad upgrades similar to Lukus from the Space Wolves codex or Sergeant Telion from the Codex: Space Marines

Command Squad Banner - Either make him a character or allow a member of the command squad to pick up the banner. This way my 25+ point banner isn't taken out before I get to use my said banner.

Blade of Caliban - In all seriousness, who thought this up? Why is a +1 strength AP 3 sword Unwieldy? Just make it a Relic Blade or plan old power sword.

Company Masters on bike - Why? Is this GW forcing me to take Sammael? I have a sinking feeling it is.

Regular Chaplains - I would like to have seen them as elite choices a la the Blood Angels' Sanguinary Priests, but that is a wish list point.

Deathwing Knights - I would have liked to see weapon options like swords and halberts. I wouldn't give them hammers though.

Company Veterans having Jump Packs - I just think it would be cool for company veterans to have jump packs, and it does fit the fluff.

Veteran Sergeants having access to Special Issue Wargear - I think this would give me more of a reason to take a veteran sergeant.

Ravenwing Attack Squadron - Oddly enough, I would like to see different weapon options. Maybe the Attack bike can get a heavy flamer or plasma cannon. The bikers could get a regular gernade launcher. Just something to make them different from other space marine bikers. Again, this is more of a wish list idea.

Black Knights - The whole squad could upgrade to power swords. Wish list thought.

Dark Talon and Nephillim - Honestly, more weapon options. Can I have just a regular bomb on my Dark Talon? What about replacing the Rift Cannon with something? Can the Nephilim have different missiles? I personally think that ALL 40k armies should have two different fliers: one an air support/fighter and the other a gunship/transport. Basically, every space marine army would have the Storm Talon or something similar and the Storm Raven or something similar

Land Speeder Vengence - Just a horrible looking model. With that aside, I would like it to have something that would prevent it from blowing itself up. Maybe internal cooling that takes away the Gets Hot, an extra hull point?

I hope that you can see that I have no issue with point cost or even unit selection. The points I'm trying to make are really just small issue that don't break the codex in a good or bad way. I also feel that none of the points I just listed would push the codex into the realm of cheese or over power, but then again, my mind really just doesn't think like that. Some of you I have no doubts will point out how something in this list could be turned into cheese.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:


The OP linked article is completely different from the one I linked. The article I linked is by Stelek, a tourney player with extensive experience and a good record, if somewhat aggravating personality.

Some people aren't necessarily appreciated here. Generally the ones with "aggravating personalities".

It's the 21st century, swearing is commonplace.

I'm guilty of doing this frequently too, but there's a difference between being colorful and perpetually acting like the 14 year old who just learned a new word, and simply because something is commonplace doesn't make it always acceptable. Not saying you need Scotch and Monocles, but raise the bar a little.

On topic, I don't think the codex is bad. I think it's quite good, really.

So, it has a lot of things that are "underpowered" or "overcosted", but it also has a lot of powerful things. Knights are reasonably decent, if not great. The Dakkabanner, cheap Librarians, and just about everything else everyone has mentioned.

Yeah Stelek is clueless please don't listen to him. I've played against him. With my 4 edition DA Codex and beat his grey knights. Don't feed that troll ignore him.

Also the codex is not bad. What it is, is reasonable and balanced something that GW has seeming been doing in fantasy as the new 8th edition army books all seem to be of a similar power level. Whereas the Old 7th Edition books have cheese all over.

The New writing style at GW is much more even however we will probably be able to deduce more after the demons book reaches us in 8 days.

460 points for 10 knights, 490 for 10 th/ss termies + 25 for cyclone thats 540 for a tooled up unit, 80 points can get me plenty more.
Dw knights are better than th/ss termies vs everything short of teq, hitting at I order, being able to place wounds on any wound of a 6 and having the exact same survivability makes them worth the cost.

Ezekial is a back field force multiplyer, always having prescience is a great buff, also mind worm, the other power you roll for is entirely up to you, he is ok at combat which is fair enough, 2+ save is also great, he can gain an invun if you get the power.
He is a steal at 145 points.

Interrogator chaplains DO have access to relics, and its only 185 to get shroud and melta bombs, I.have used him and he hunts vehicles very well and is handy in combat too, land raider cost? Nope not sure where you got that.

Nephilim overcosted.. Never said it wasn't, I said your useing it wrong, it's not an anti flyer platform, it's an anti medium/light infantry and transport killer, and at this it excels, 7 str 6 and 3 str5 shots a turn normally hitting on 2+... Not useless at all.
Also being able to imobilise vehicles rather than weapon destroyed then is also good.
Dark talons are ok, but as I said they are usefull force multiplyers, I use mine In conjunction with ravenwing knights to make sure what ever I hit dies, with the aid of this thing you can effectively take down any character in the game, not bad.

Relics: ok here is what I think if each
Foe smiter, love it, 4 shots on the move, master crafted and ap4... Not bad for the cost, gets me more chances at precision shot.
Lions roar, a combi plasma cannon, sweet, I normally put this on my liby on a bike with my ravenwing knights, rad grenade a unit then hit it with the plasma talons and the roar, it's nasty.
Mace of redemption: str 7 ap3 at I 5!! Hell yes, ap2 vs chaos sweet, concussion and blind! Only 30 pts... I'm having that.
Monter slayer... I totally agree with you
Shroud of heroes, I like it, overcosted to be sure, but it is a good bit of wargear, put this guy on a bike and roll around with a 3+ cover save, put him near a darkshroud and it's a 2+, throw in feel no pain and you have a very survivable model for relatively cheap.

In short this codex is well thought out with only one stinker in the whole dex, nothing is broken or too op, I like the direction this book has taken alongside the chaos book by being fairly balanced

You can't change what's written. Why didn't you bother putting any effort into analyzing the many good things to come out of the Codex?

CSM and DA are the two first codex of the 6th ed. I got the CSM but I can't speak for the DA. What I want to said (sorry for my poor english) is I think people don't know what they wanted in a codex. After reading a few times, the CSM go to a gakky codex to a not so bad with stupid stuff (Warp Talon, what the phoque when a CC unit cannot charge when it deap strike). I didn't find what I what to create my own little Iron Warrior warband, but is a vanilla codex, I must learn to use it.

The DA codex is a theme army codex. I know that will not be competitive, overpower or it will be overpower. DA's Codex is to play DA as we see it in the books, novels, 40k world... If you wanted other thing than the DA, the Vanilla Marine is a better choice. If you are a DA player and find the Codex full of crap, may be is time to change.

Just read that truth hurts link... Wow...just wow, he has so much wrong there it's amazing, I suggest no one takes any notice of such a person, the things he picks out are not actually a problem and he believes deathwing termies got nerfed haha, skip that read

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The OP linked article is completely different from the one I linked. The article I linked is by Stelek, a tourney player with extensive experience and a good record, if somewhat aggravating personality.
It's the 21st century, swearing is commonplace.

He might be a good tournament player but as a writer his signal to noise ratio is awful. There's a bit of wisdom buried somewhere in the giant zero-content "here's a spam list with no explanation of how it works" posts and the rants about how every single unit in the game is terrible and the rules are broken and playing the game is just a miserable waste of time. Add in an incredibly condescending attitude towards anyone who doesn't immediately bow in awe before the wisdom he generously offers to us lesser mortals and reading anything he has to say is just a waste of time. Other people can give you all the same useful information without having to filter through the 95% garbage.

Also, all you need to know about the usefulness of his review is summed up in one thing: 5-point Rhinos. That's his idea of an acceptable unit.

 Formosa wrote:
Flyers, bad? No not even close, the fact.you think the nephilim is a anti flyer unit shows you have no clue, its anti light vehicle/infantry, the talon is also a force multiplyer, drop the bomb on a giant mob of orks and charge them with a tac squad.. Try it

The Nephilim is awful. It doesn't have the volume of fire or AP to be an anti-infantry unit, it doesn't have the STR to be a meaningful threat to vehicles, and it is a joke against other flyers. Just ally in a Vendetta/Avenger/etc and get a real flyer.

The Dark Talon is mediocre at best. It has decent volume of fire against light infantry, but the stasis bomb is worthless and it's really not doing all that much that you can't do with better units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
he believes deathwing termies got nerfed haha

Because they did. TH/SS got more expensive, the mandatory point sink to unlock deathwing got more expensive, and you can't take them as allies anymore.

The new dw assault, split fire, fearless, cheaper assault cannon and can still mix units weapons, 10 man squads, vengeful strike, that is not a nerf it's a buff, the only nerf that can be argued is paying for th/ss, but we all knew that was coming.

Belial also got buffed and priced accordingly, termies as troops is a big thing in 6th, 190 for no scatter, dw troops, custom weapons, iron halo ( meh) fleshbane pw, fearless... Yep thats fair, he was far far too cheap before.

The nephilim will almost always be hitting side armour, 2+ to hit, thats usually going to be 6 out of 7 hits, unusually on av10/11, usually 2 glance and a pen, seems worth it to me.
Infantry wise thats again 6 or 7 hits and 3 hits from the hb, 4 or 5 wounds from the guns and from the hb, anything short of meq have lost 7 models so far, meq 2/3, and then the pinning test ( meh)
Not bad at all

I'm sorry but I just don't think it's a valid complaint to say you didn't get a codex as powerful as necrons GK or SW. You don't get to complain about certain dexs being OP and then complain when yours isn't. You either are against OP flexes on principal or your actually TFG that really only cares about point and click armies. When GW screws up and releases 3 OP codexes the answer is not to make every other codex more and more powerful. The answer is to take the nerf bat to these codexes at their next release. I don't want 15 codexes like SW or Necorns. I want codexes like DA and chaos with good internal balance (some stronger and weaker units) and options for several interesting builds.

If the Deamon codex follows through on this trend I'll be happy with where GW is going (I know it will mean certain armies will be top tier for a while because GW is slow in updating but eventually things will get in line).

 Formosa wrote:
The new dw assault

Who cares. Reserves are on a 3+ anyway so this isn't adding much.

split fire

Not really all that relevant when you're talking about a unit with TH/SS except for one weapon.

10 man squads

Useless because two units of five is always better.

vengeful strike

Pretty minimal improvement when it forces you to deep strike and you're only twin-linking a single heavy weapon that's already BS 4.

Belial also got buffed and priced accordingly, termies as troops is a big thing in 6th, 190 for no scatter, dw troops, custom weapons, iron halo ( meh) fleshbane pw, fearless... Yep thats fair, he was far far too cheap before.

Who cares. Killy characters are just a waste of points. The only thing that matters is that he makes deathwing troops, anything else is just a point sink.

The nephilim will almost always be hitting side armour, 2+ to hit, thats usually going to be 6 out of 7 hits, unusually on av10/11, usually 2 glance and a pen, seems worth it to me.

Except that:

1) It's only AP 4, so your chances of rolling "explodes" are not impressive and you're probably stuck glancing everything to death.

2) It's only effective against AV 10/11, while other anti-tank units can effectively deal with tougher targets as well as AV 10/11.

3) It's not a Vendetta. A Vendetta does better against AV 10/11, costs significantly less, can actually deal with things that are tougher than AV 11, has better armor and more HP, and is even a transport.

4) It's not a Vulture/Avenger/Thunderbolt/etc. Even the rejected "not as good as a Vendetta, never going to use it" flyers are much better than a Nephilim.

4 or 5 wounds from the guns and from the hb, anything short of meq have lost 7 models so far, meq 2/3

Err, what? How are you inflicting 4-5 wounds and killing 7 models, or 2-3 models with a 3+ save?

I don't think the new codex's are bad. They are just not made to be better than whatever came before them, like they used to be. Which is a good thing.

Ah now we get to the Crux of why you think the nephilim sucks, it's not a op broken super cheap flyer.

Dw assault, are you seriously trying to say that a unit that is.guaranteed to come in on a set turn is worse than rolling for it...cos well.. Yeah

Split fire, 10 termies, 3 th/ss up front, 2 assault cannons deep strike in with belial, hit rear or side armour, thats 2 dead tanks, yeah split fire... Who cares

Vengeful strike, so you think bs4 is better than bs4 twin linked??

Belial skills and stats are not a point sink, he will see combat, if he doesn't deep strike your useing him wrong, put him into whatever unit is the most important to get close and voila! Enemy must deal or get smashed.

Nephilim, you didn't take into account the heavy bolter.

Sorry peregrin, but it seems that your just pissed this isn't a uber dex like crons or has clearly broken units like the vendetta, this book has alot of options that are fun to play and do well, it has good internal balance and will hold up well against most lists

 Formosa wrote:
Ah now we get to the Crux of why you think the nephilim sucks, it's not a op broken super cheap flyer.

Well yeah, but when the game has overpowered cheap flyers then those are the standard for comparison. I don't care if it's "better" than a bad unit, I care if it's better than the best units I'd otherwise take.

Dw assault, are you seriously trying to say that a unit that is.guaranteed to come in on a set turn is worse than rolling for it...cos well.. Yeah

No, I'm saying it's a situational ability that doesn't really add all that much.

Split fire, 10 termies, 3 th/ss up front, 2 assault cannons deep strike in with belial, hit rear or side armour, thats 2 dead tanks, yeah split fire... Who cares

Or, I know, I could just take two units of five models each, remove split fire, and save some points. Or I could use a suicide melta unit that costs less than 700 points to kill two tanks (which cost significantly less than the 700 points spent to kill them) and has a much better chance of killing them thanks to AP 1 vs. AP 4.

Anyway, if we're talking about bad players who know they're facing deep striking deathwing and still leave rear armor exposed then you're going to win the game no matter what you take. So I don't really see the point in spending 700 points on a unit dedicated to (inefficiently) beating bad players.

Vengeful strike, so you think bs4 is better than bs4 twin linked??

No, I'm saying that BS 4 is already fairly accurate, so making it twin-linked isn't as important as, say, making IG weapons twin-linked.

Belial skills and stats are not a point sink, he will see combat, if he doesn't deep strike your useing him wrong, put him into whatever unit is the most important to get close and voila! Enemy must deal or get smashed.

5-man TH/SS squads already smash anything that I'd send a deathwing unit against. Adding a 200 point character just makes the squad more expensive.

Nephilim, you didn't take into account the heavy bolter.

Yes I did. I'm using your quote of "4-5 wounds", which according to you includes the HB.

Didn't you get enough on Bolter and chainsword, OP? O.o it's a fine codex. It's fun. I had a lot more fun with it than vanilla, even with losing.


I like your articles on the HH, but seriously...

Dw assault is not situational, it's an ability to build an army around, being able to dw assault your whole force to drop turn 1, then alpha strike the hell out of things is very usefull, combine it with twin linked and some ravenwing bikes it is very powerfull.