Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been looking at historical gaming in general, and looking over Warlord Games' stuff got me interested in WW2 historical games. I was wondering if I could get some clarity as to how these two systems in particular function:

1) How much should I expect to spend for an average force?
2) What is the die system? (d6?)
3) How deep and strategic are the rules? (Cover mechanics, return fire, reactions, etc)
4) How do they play? (brief descriptions or good youtube videos would help)

Thank you for your time.

 Surtur wrote:
I've been looking at historical gaming in general, and looking over Warlord Games' stuff got me interested in WW2 historical games. I was wondering if I could get some clarity as to how these two systems in particular function:

1) How much should I expect to spend for an average force?
2) What is the die system? (d6?)
3) How deep and strategic are the rules? (Cover mechanics, return fire, reactions, etc)
4) How do they play? (brief descriptions or good youtube videos would help)

Thank you for your time.

1. My infantry list for Bolt Action will cost me £60-70 for 1000 points. FoW lists vary tremendously depending on exactly what it is you are fielding but you can get a German Panzer army for about £50 depending on support options.

2. Both use D6

3. Both have cover mechanics (both use to hit modifiers) and return fire is really defensive fire in assaults. BA has overwatch and it also has an interesting inititive system, basically the turn is concurrent for boths players and the current active player is chosen based upon drawing a token when then gets to take an action with one of his units and then another token is drawn until all units have taken an action that turn.

4. Fow is quite a simple but can be a tactically complex game depending on the forces involved. Its one of those games where combined arms are (usually) required. I am still building my BA army so I can't really tell you how it plays

Thank you for responding! What do you mean by token system for boltaction?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thank you for responding! What do you mean by token system for boltaction?

Each unit for both players gets a token and they are all pooled in a cup or something similar. They are then drawn blind and the player whose token is drawn chooses one of his units to active. Once it has done so another token is drawn and the process continues until all units have acted and the turn ends.

I think its quite an interesting way of dividing up the turn which produces quite a stong element of uncertainty while still allowing players to play tactically..

If you can find players for BA then thats the one that I would suggest that you start with, aside from anything else its usually cheaper. FoW tends to be a lot more popular though so finding opponents is ususally quite straight forward.

What role do airplanes have in Bolt Action? Do they have a battle field presence for the models? Does FoW have air combat? Are there artillery rules in either game?

Aircraft do play a role in BA, Its basically a once per game ability which is quite random but which can do a lot of damage. Artillery can be similar to aircraft but it can also be taken on table which is able to provide indirect fire every turn to a lesser effect. Some missions also provide preliminary bombardments.

The artillery rules in FoW are quite simple. They can either fire a barrage which tends to be fairly weak or they can fire directly and they tend to have quite good anti tank ratings in direct fire which pushes up their points cost significantly.
Aircraft are basically artillery that can be shot down and which can only be used at targets a fair distance from your on troops.

So what is the point of the aircraft models then? To look good? (and they do) A little disappointing, but reasonable from a simulation stand point.

In FoW the aircraft model, or rather its base, is used to determine if it is in range of AA guns and if it is far enough away from friendly troops to attack.

There is no air combat (well there is but it is a simple dice roll to attempt to intercept).

The only game that I know of with air to air combat is Epic, and 40K now I suppose.

Ok, I think I get the gist of that. How does moral function in the games? And is there pinning?

Morale checks are taken on 2D6 in BA but only 1 D6 in FoW. Boht games have quite simple morale systems, although FoW is a bit more complex as the assault phase usually involves at least a couple of morale checks.

Pinning is central to BA, pin markers are built up through enemy fire and effect shooting accuracy and the chance that a unit will obey an order. If a unit gets a lot of pin markers they may even be automatically destroyed.

Pinning in FoW is quite abstract, infantry are pinned down if they take 5 hits (or 1 artillery hit) and need to pass a morale check on 1 D6 the following turn to unpin. Armour can't be pinned at all.

Very interesting. I believe I may continue to peek at both for some time, but I thank you very much for your help and responsiveness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, just thought of another! Commanders/command staff. How do they interact with the game?

 Surtur wrote:
Ok, I think I get the gist of that. How does moral function in the games? And is there pinning?

Morale and pinning has a huge part in Bolt Action.

Every time a unit gets shot at, if a hit is scored (doesn't matter how many) the unit takes a pin marker. No models need to be killed, only a hit (represents a near miss or a light wound). Each pin marker lowers a units LD by 1. This is important because the moment you start taking pins, you have to take an order test to carry out orders (movement, firing, assaulting, etc.) Vets have a high leadership and as a result keep cool under fire, but a green or inexperienced unit can be taken out of the fight without a single model being killed. What makes pinning really scary is that if the unit takes as many pins as its leadership value, it's routed. Basically that unit is taking so much fire, its morale collapses and the unit breaks. You can destroy entire units without killing a single model.

Leadership also functions into getting your units to flank or arrive from reserves. After all, you don't want to trust a crucial flanking maneuver to an inexperienced squad of recruits who have no idea when the right moment to shoot is.

As for the turn sequence, it works like this.

1. Each side has a certain amount of units depending on their list. A unit can be a tank, a squad of infantry, a commander, an artillery piece, etc. Basically a model or group of models that acts independent from others.
2. You get one "order die" for each unit you have. For example, lets say I have 8 units and you have 10. I get 8 order dice and you get 10.
3. We take our combined order dice and put them in a cup. We then randomly draw a die from the cup. Whoever's die it is then gets to activate one unit under his control.
4. Regardless of whether the unit successfully carries out its order (for example, a unit under fire can panic and refuse to leave cover) once that unit is done you leave the die next to the unit to show what it's status is. Then you repeat steps 3 and 4 until all dice are drawn and used.

It encourages an interesting uncertainty to the game, as you're never sure if you'll get the first shot or not. You also have to weigh which units to use first. Do you have the sniper shoot first to kill his commander and have his troops panic, or do you kill that machine gun nest before it wipes out your vets holding the objective, or then again, maybe you should shoot that panzershreck team that managed to sneak around your tank. I really like it and would love to see it in more games.