Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello dakkanauts,

Next weekend I will play with my Orks vs CSM @ 1500pts (mix of PlagueMarines and Noise Marines).
At the moment, I really don't know what to use against such a opponent.

Challenges are a big challenge lol. With Orks Init and PK, I am not sure they can survive any.
Like other SM, 3+ save is a pain, but here I have to deal with T5 and FnP. Eeek!

I usually play green tide, but I don't know how to deal vs such versatile army.

Big Boss vs Big Mek (KFF makes sense vs any SM/CSM imo)
SAG vs Plaguemarines?
Kanons for AP3 are a good idea I think, as well as the usual Lootas spamm. Maybe a Looted vehicle.
I don't know if I have to keep it simple (mass basic Orks) or use special uints as MANZ.

Well, as you notice, I need your guidance. Would be very appreciated!

Take care

If you're worried about challenges picking of your nobs, either don't pay the points for PK nobs in your boyz squad or attach a warboss to the squad so the warboss's PK attacks can ID the plague marines. ID= no FNP.

Noise marine range is meh, and they're a lot less effective if they move. Stay out of range of them and blast them with big shootas or kannons.

I'd skip the KFF mek and do warboss on bike or mega armored boss. Lootas are a must, they should throw enough dice around to make the 3+ armor fail enough.

And never underestimate a battlewagon with deffrolla or outflanking deffkoptas.

Outflanking deffkoptas are nastier than people give them credit for. Everyone uses the scout trick to get up and take somethin out. I prefer my koptas to come in turn 3 on the outflank because 9 out of 10 what i REALLY want them to take out is completely exposed now, vs being totally bubblewrapped or hidden at the start. Theyre a reasonably cheap kill-team, im not sending them at random junk because mymain target is out of sight one turn.

Personally i dislike the deffrolla against any race that has a standard good armor save (necrons or any MEQ) because for some stupid reason a massive spiky ball plowing into you doesnt cause any armor or cover damage (da feth?). Starting to not like them at all unless im against someone i know likes armor units.

Lootas are a must. I always take 20, and if i can i'll squeeze another 10 (be it elite slot open or free points...i'll sac a few boyz for another 10 lootas if i have to theyre that nasty). Just never use 11+ groups, they seriously need that going to ground capability. Unless CSM noise marines have a way to drop in on your lootas (i never play against CSM, oddly enough) they wouldnt get there before getting torn to shreds by 30-90 shots a turn that wound on a 2+.

As sad as it sounds ive been playing better with the campout trick rather than frontal assault. Which is annoying since orks are suppose to be da chargin' mofos that zerg you before you can think. If terrain permits, i'll camp my boyz middle of the table out of sight and just have the lootas goto town and the boyz cut them off halfway.

@Wingeds

If you're worried about challenges picking of your nobs, either don't pay the points for PK nobs in your boyz squad or attach a warboss to the squad so the warboss's PK attacks can ID the plague marines. ID= no FNP.

Or maybe no Nobz at all with my Shootas?
I did not play to use a warboss and my Shootas as they will walk and a mega armor won’t let me sprint.

Noise marine range is meh, and they're a lot less effective if they move. Stay out of range of them and blast them with big shootas or kannons.

Agreed

I'd skip the KFF mek and do warboss on bike or mega armored boss.

The idea of the KFF was maybe to cover a battlewagon full of tankbustas and to cover my Boyz on turn 1 at least. I can feel 2 squads of Havocs in my opponent’s choice.

@Vineheart01

Outflanking deffkoptas are nastier than people give them credit for. Everyone uses the scout trick to get up and take somethin out. I prefer my koptas to come in turn 3 on the outflank because 9 out of 10 what i REALLY want them to take out is completely exposed now, vs being totally bubblewrapped or hidden at the start. Theyre a reasonably cheap kill-team, im not sending them at random junk because mymain target is out of sight one turn.

I love deffkoptas, but in the buzz configuration. Then they become expensive and strike last. Still good vs Chaos you think?
Outflanking is great, but you can’t be sure they come at turn 3. They can even never come, and at 60pts/buzzkopta, that hurts.

Personally i dislike the deffrolla against any race that has a standard good armor save (necrons or any MEQ) because for some stupid reason a massive spiky ball plowing into you doesnt cause any armor or cover damage (da feth?). Starting to not like them at all unless im against someone i know likes armor units.

Same for me. I like deffrolla, but depends on the army I am dealing with. Armored armies are a pain.


What about the idea to use a mek with SAG vs CSM? In one of the Lootas squad.
And tankbustas to spam S8 AP3?

I usually have a SAG if i got spare points, unless im running a trukk rush (which is like..never) i dont take 2 warbosses. With just the sag and ammo runt its 98pts, not bad for a table pi plate that can potentially vaporize an army lol. Usually people put a bubble of grots around him, which is another 40pts so again nice and cheap.

tankbustas are the same cost as lootas unless you get some squig bombz (remember, they ONLY target vehicles, so you may not even want them) but unlike lootas they demand a BW to run them around, they lack range and volumn of fire. Ive dabbled with them a few times....they can hurt but theyre too easy to shut down and usually runs me 350pts including the BW, so thats a lot of squishyness to put up close to the enemy.

Yea i know its not guaranteed to have them come in on turn 3, i just prefer it. Current rules basically want the game to be in full swing on turn 2, since reserves are a 3+ with no modifiers. Probably the only unit i ever put in reserves that i dont go "FML!" when it doesnt come in turn 2 lol.

As for the KFF, if your opponent is known for noise marines definitely just skip it. Noise marines ignore cover, dont forget that. And taking it for a single vehicle is usually not worth it since thats a precious HQ slot....you want atleast 2 to make it an option.

Also you want the nobz even if you arent taking a pklaw unless you need to shave 10pts somewhere. Yea, he isnt THAT much stronger, but now hes a throwaway unit you can go "I CHALLENGE YOU!" with against someone's HQ or big bad character making that model useless for a turn. Oooo he killed my nob...so what my boyz ravaged the rest of his group rofl

My thought on KFF was that the Noise Marines would make it worthless. So you'd go with warboss for HQ. A nob biker unit with a kombiflamer or two, painboy, and a PK should give you a very nice unit to counter quite a few things chaos can throw at you.

You could exploit the warboss on a bike outflanking with the deffkoptas as well.

I usually have a SAG if i got spare points, unless im running a trukk rush (which is like..never) i dont take 2 warbosses. With just the sag and ammo runt its 98pts, not bad for a table pi plate that can potentially vaporize an army lol. Usually people put a bubble of grots around him, which is another 40pts so again nice and cheap.

I will try the SAG for the first time I think. Question: if I give the Mek+SAG some ammo runts, that means I can reroll ALL the scatter dice, right?

tankbustas are the same cost as lootas unless you get some squig bombz (remember, they ONLY target vehicles, so you may not even want them) but unlike lootas they demand a BW to run them around, they lack range and volumn of fire. Ive dabbled with them a few times....they can hurt but theyre too easy to shut down and usually runs me 350pts including the BW, so thats a lot of squishyness to put up close to the enemy.

Holy words, you are completely right

Yea i know its not guaranteed to have them come in on turn 3, i just prefer it. Current rules basically want the game to be in full swing on turn 2, since reserves are a 3+ with no modifiers. Probably the only unit i ever put in reserves that i dont go "FML!" when it doesnt come in turn 2 lol.

FML?

Also you want the nobz even if you arent taking a pklaw unless you need to shave 10pts somewhere. Yea, he isnt THAT much stronger, but now hes a throwaway unit you can go "I CHALLENGE YOU!" with against someone's HQ or big bad character making that model useless for a turn. Oooo he killed my nob...so what my boyz ravaged the rest of his group rofl

If I try with only one HQ (Mek SAG), I can maybe skip the Nobz, so the challenge thing will become totally useless. I don’t want his champions to get new chaos rewards during the game!

I am not sure he will use vehicles, but I can expect Helldrake (Lootas 4tw), Plaguemarines, Havocs and lot of cultists (maybe with Typhus).

FML = Feth my life (Feth being dakkaforums for F**K)

The SAG can only be accompanied by one ammo runt for basically free, i never have issues giving it to him. Its a one-use only and per rules you reroll ALL the dice (scatter and distance) but NOT the strength. So if you get a good strength or that damn AWESOME double 6 effect and you miss, you better freakin use that ammo runt lol

Yea, hellchickens are hard for orks. Its another thing about 6th orks thats urking me. All the new fancy rules n such are only really dealt with by lootas, hence why i always take so many. But it also forces us into a bit of a camping line...which is NOT ORKY DAMN IT

Well, obviously the best way to deal with CSM is with an Ork shooty army...

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Yea, hellchickens are hard for orks. Its another thing about 6th orks thats urking me. All the new fancy rules n such are only really dealt with by lootas, hence why i always take so many. But it also forces us into a bit of a camping line...which is NOT ORKY DAMN IT

That indeed sucks,... i want my orks to smash faces up close,.. now,... it makes me very happy,.... to imagine,... or sometimes even say, DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA out loud when i shoot,...

though i'd rather yell SMASH BASH STOMP!! WAAGH!

I'm afraid we just have to hold on untill new Codex,.. they better make it Dead Stompy!

If afraid for challenge,.. put your nob in line 3 or 4 when you assault,.. you can only challenge or accept,.. if blows can/could be dealt,.. which cannot happen in line 3 or 4 since you will be further away then 2'' from a model in base contact,.. pray some die,.. cause when you pile in,.. your nob can smash!

I will go full DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA and see how it goes...

My objective will be to avoid cc... what a shame!