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i first saw these mini's in my local store, and they looked GREAT! but i'm not sure if i would start with it

It really depends on if you're going to have many opponents or not, they're a decent and robust set of rules that are very easily learnt but if no one else plays it its not worth it.

I'm in the same situation, fallen for the miniature but have no one to face so no point buying the models :(

Well remember that the majority of WHFB armies have clear analogues in KoW, so if you know an Orc player (for example) willing to give it a go it's not like they need to buy anything to try the rules out.

And as an alternative viewpoint, remember that you can buy the Mantic models to play Warhammer with (as long as its not in a store) and keep an eye on crossing over to KoW in the future.

Finally, the basic rules and army lists are completely free and available at this link:

http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html

KoW is a solid game, easy to learn, allows anybody's models to be used, and is a lot of fun. I prefer it over WHFB when I don't want to run over-the-top, ridiculous combos like 7th Ed chosen of tzeentch.

Get folks to try the game with their Warhammer Fantasy armies - the miniatures are compatible.

And, given that the basic rules and all the army lists are free you can print a bunch up and give them to folks.

Me, I like the rules - better than any recent edition of Warhammer. (3e is still my favorite.)

Aside from the siege and campaign rules everything works just about right - I have seen antire rooms filled with players, and no rules arguments!

The Auld Grump

KoW is an excellent game with fast, well written rules.
I've demoed it at several regional stores but can't get anyone to even consider playing a non-GW game (even using the army they already have).

privateer4hire wrote:
KoW is an excellent game with fast, well written rules.
I've demoed it at several regional stores but can't get anyone to even consider playing a non-GW game (even using the army they already have).

I've had the same issue, people just don't seem to be interested in using their GW armies for KoW games even though the majority of the rules are online and Free and they have perfect opportunity to use their models without any purchases.

yeah! i had the same issue when i went over to my gaming club and no one was playing it! i said ' why don't you guys try KoW ? ' they said this : We don't Want to play a sh** game and it s***s' so then i left that club and now i'm looking for another one :( i played a few good GW games there and the boss was always friendly :( but the players :(

TheMadHunterHD wrote:
so then i left that club and now i'm looking for another one

Sadly I'm in a similar situation - spent 2 years playing a wide variety of games with very little wider interest in any of them. Tired now of subsidising other people's GW gaming.

Definitely go for it, you won't regret it.

I'd deffinately have a look at trying out KoW on Vassal games, i have had a few games using Vassal now and love the rules and the game play, even on a slow internet connection it was a fast and fun game

Actually, biggest problem with KoW on Vassal is finding a system to run block-units on a map. The 40K mod works superbly imo for Warpath, but I have yet to find a good module to run a game of KoW/WHFB in...

It may be worth noting that I have seen an entire room full of people just quit Warhammer and start playing KoW instead - they were just that annoyed with 8th edition....

Happy to say that I introduced them to the game....

The Auld Grump

I hadn't realized how much of a joke 40k/fantasy were until I started playing Kings of War/warpath. Just played my first fantasy game in a long time and was thoroughly annoyed with how long it took to resolve what was essentially a skirmish size battle compared to the gigantic battles you can resolve in the same amount of time with Kings of War! The rules are streamlined and abstracted just enough IMO so that you can play a good sized battle quickly and still feel like the details of the battle presented themselves.

The fact that thought was even put into balancing the armies against each other is a refreshing thought after watching the various flavor of the month builds crush people for years. I've found that the streamlined rules still allow for plenty of strategic choice when building an army and commanding it on the field where as with fantasy what army you play and how you build it seems to account for victories more often than actually knowing how to outmaneuver and trap your opponent.

Even if a fellow gamer doesn't have one of the compatible armies try out the fan made lists there are good ones for nearly every WHFB army or even build a list yourself it doesn't take long to convert a GW army into a Mantic one! Just seeing my Bretonnians on the field as a valid choice and not a joke was more than enough for me to switch systems.

Bob The Bobish wrote:
I hadn't realized how much of a joke 40k/fantasy were until I started playing Kings of War/warpath. Just played my first fantasy game in a long time and was thoroughly annoyed with how long it took to resolve what was essentially a skirmish size battle compared to the gigantic battles you can resolve in the same amount of time with Kings of War! The rules are streamlined and abstracted just enough IMO so that you can play a good sized battle quickly and still feel like the details of the battle presented themselves.

The fact that thought was even put into balancing the armies against each other is a refreshing thought after watching the various flavor of the month builds crush people for years. I've found that the streamlined rules still allow for plenty of strategic choice when building an army and commanding it on the field where as with fantasy what army you play and how you build it seems to account for victories more often than actually knowing how to outmaneuver and trap your opponent.

Even if a fellow gamer doesn't have one of the compatible armies try out the fan made lists there are good ones for nearly every WHFB army or even build a list yourself it doesn't take long to convert a GW army into a Mantic one! Just seeing my Bretonnians on the field as a valid choice and not a joke was more than enough for me to switch systems.

Welcome to the fold, brother.

The main thing keeping me from starting Kings of War is the lack of chrome. All of the heroes and leaders feel very bland, ruleswise. One of my favorite things about Warhammer Fantasy is the flexibility you get when building heroes. Of course, that's changed now with the new edition, what with the lack of army-unique items.

Still, every time a new GW release is more expensive than the last, I get ever closer to playing KoW. I love pretty much all the new models (that WoC tentacle beast is 100% AMAZING), I can't justify paying so much ($85 for the tentacle beast = insane). Mantic's sculpting quality is definitely going up, however. The 3-ups I've seen of their new Trolls are lovely.

Really, if I could find people that'd give the game a try, I start it...I probably wouldn't sell my GW Orcs, just us the Mantic list, but I'd be tempted to start a second, all-or-mostly Mantic force.

~Tim?

Heroes can be 'chromed' a couple of ways.
-Give them magic items.
-Take a solid unit of allies that has a hero whos stats you like or would like if you magic item 'em up. Reskin that allied hero into the model you like.

For example - maybe your Orcs have princess who is headstrong, slow but tought (a Dwarf hero's stats) or a goblin wizard with a lot of ranged magic but who is frail (elf queen)?

I have a feeling it's going to be nigh impossible for me to find a KoW game myself =/ (San Diego if any of you wanna play!)

Sounds like it is much the same in a lot of places, where the GW fanbois hold sway. Anything not GW is crud, any rules not WHFB are crud and so on. Then they sit down to play, argue over their chosen rules and proceed to bitch how GW does not support their chosen army.

I am lucky in so much I do not often play n stores and generally our small group will have a go at anything. KoW has gone down a storm.

Mantic stuff is cheap and most hadveold WHFB armies gathering dust anyway (does anyone like 8th ed soon to be 9th) the rules are free and best of all you can play a big game without reference to page 27 para3 Line 4, as amended by the faq 2/2/13.

Go on you know you want to - dive in and have a blast

wilycoyote wrote:
Sounds like it is much the same in a lot of places, where the GW fanbois hold sway. Anything not GW is crud, any rules not WHFB are crud and so on. Then they sit down to play, argue over their chosen rules and proceed to bitch how GW does not support their chosen army.

I am lucky in so much I do not often play n stores and generally our small group will have a go at anything. KoW has gone down a storm.

Mantic stuff is cheap and most hadveold WHFB armies gathering dust anyway (does anyone like 8th ed soon to be 9th) the rules are free and best of all you can play a big game without reference to page 27 para3 Line 4, as amended by the faq 2/2/13.

Go on you know you want to - dive in and have a blast

Being able to have four large games going, with no rules arguments, was very nice.

Being able to finish all four games in three hours, with a pizza intermission? Priceless.

The Auld Grump

Agreed AuldGrump. Unfortunately, being unable to get anyone to do more than play a demo is also priceless.

Some markets are harder to break into than others.
In Rockville, MD - if it ain't GW or Privateer Press it ain't getting touched.

Hmmm, I had no problem with that in South Portland, Maine.

Mostly, just having a space to run the game and a time for folks to meet.

But then we also have a lot of folks that do not like the current edition of Warhammer, but wanted to use their armies.

The Auld Grump

Around here there's been a revival of LURVE for WFB's current edition. Nobody was doing anything with their armies then all of a sudden they broke 'em out.

I've demoed at the LGS a couple of times and never get more than a compliment about the models and that they generally like KoW rules----and then they go back to 40k, WFB or WarMachine.

I'm about done with the Game Prophet schtick.

Sure. Why not?

I switched to KoW because of price, playability and responsiveness to gamers' preferences and concerns. I have been satisfied so far and now my brother has started building his first fantasy army, Lizardmen, and he will be playing KoW in a couple of weeks.