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2013/03/11 11:14:09
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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I do not think Straken is a good example of capabilities of average Catachan of any gender...
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2013/03/11 20:41:50
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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A work of fiction doesn't somehow reach out and affect the real world
I suppose "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair was just in my imagination, then.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2013/03/11 21:52:01
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
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 Crimson wrote:I do not think Straken is a good example of capabilities of average Catachan of any gender...
you're right there - but I bet a Catachan lady would come pretty close some days...
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{url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675142.page]{img]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/11/8/429237_md-.jpg{/img]{/url] |
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2013/03/12 00:58:31
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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No, that's you. You want a special privilege you can keep from everyone else, while everyone else is saying "that's cool, can I be a part of that, too?"
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/12 00:59:25
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2013/03/12 05:28:18
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Krazed Killa Kan
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 Melissia wrote:No, that's you. You want a special privilege you can keep from everyone else, while everyone else is saying "that's cool, can I be a part of that, too?"
Believe it or not, you absolutely can play 40k. I can also dress up like a woman and play with dollies.
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 Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. |
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2013/03/12 07:09:08
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dangerous Outrider
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 TedNugent wrote: Melissia wrote:No, that's you. You want a special privilege you can keep from everyone else, while everyone else is saying "that's cool, can I be a part of that, too?"
Believe it or not, you absolutely can play 40k. I can also dress up like a woman and play with dollies.
go ahead, I just want some official lady imperial fighter miniatures who aren't super sexy. too much to ask for?
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2013/03/12 07:15:57
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dakka Veteran
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 Lotet wrote: TedNugent wrote: Melissia wrote:No, that's you. You want a special privilege you can keep from everyone else, while everyone else is saying "that's cool, can I be a part of that, too?"
Believe it or not, you absolutely can play 40k. I can also dress up like a woman and play with dollies.
go ahead, I just want some official lady imperial fighter miniatures who aren't super sexy. too much to ask for?
Its the fault of GW and even FFG. In-universe, the Imperium ain't sexist. It doesn't care.
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Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2013/03/12 09:06:36
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dangerous Outrider
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Corporal_Reznov wrote: Lotet wrote: TedNugent wrote: Melissia wrote:No, that's you. You want a special privilege you can keep from everyone else, while everyone else is saying "that's cool, can I be a part of that, too?"
Believe it or not, you absolutely can play 40k. I can also dress up like a woman and play with dollies.
go ahead, I just want some official lady imperial fighter miniatures who aren't super sexy. too much to ask for?
Its the fault of GW and even FFG. In-universe, the Imperium ain't sexist. It doesn't care.
well, FFG did have this picture in 'Only War' so they're not all bad. I need to go and actually buy the book, I wonder if there's more.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/429505-.html?m=2
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 09:07:27
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2013/03/12 19:43:17
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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FFG is much, MUCH better than GW in this regard.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2013/03/12 19:48:37
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dakka Veteran
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Lotet wrote:Corporal_Reznov wrote: Lotet wrote: TedNugent wrote: Melissia wrote:No, that's you. You want a special privilege you can keep from everyone else, while everyone else is saying "that's cool, can I be a part of that, too?"
Believe it or not, you absolutely can play 40k. I can also dress up like a woman and play with dollies.
go ahead, I just want some official lady imperial fighter miniatures who aren't super sexy. too much to ask for?
Its the fault of GW and even FFG. In-universe, the Imperium ain't sexist. It doesn't care.
well, FFG did have this picture in 'Only War' so they're not all bad. I need to go and actually buy the book, I wonder if there's more.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/429505-.html?m=2
Melissia wrote:FFG is much, MUCH better than GW in this regard.
Agreed! FFG is better than GW in this regard but they still do stupid things like the below:
These two pics from FFG are what irritate me  .
Anyway, hello Melissia, still playing 40k TT? What are your armies? Just curious.
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Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2013/03/12 20:12:08
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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The Commissar in the uniform with the power-fist isn't really that bad. Considering the real-world basis for the Commissariat, on top of the sci-fi-Gothic vibe of 40K in general, the corset-top is not really that out of place.
The heels on her boots? Maybe... but maybe she's the Commissar to an artillery regiment, and spends most of her time riding around on a truck or walking around in a camp. She's not necessarily an infantry soldier.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2013/03/12 20:13:30
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Nope. Heels are impractical in any military scenario. Cleavage can be forgiven somewhat. Men have fought bare chested. It's still dumb though.
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Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
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2013/03/12 20:23:46
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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No problem with the corset, but the heels are what made me grimace too as I saw that pic. 
It's not even heels per se - in real life, there actually was a time when even military men or male pirates etc sported rather pronounced heels. But here they're just way too thin, modern-day-style.
That being said, I'm fairly sure that character 's supposed to be /tg/s Commissar Raege, anyways. FFG 40k books are full of 4chan memes these days.
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2013/03/12 20:29:25
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dakka Veteran
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Psienesis wrote:The Commissar in the uniform with the power-fist isn't really that bad. Considering the real-world basis for the Commissariat, on top of the sci-fi-Gothic vibe of 40K in general, the corset-top is not really that out of place.
The heels on her boots? Maybe... but maybe she's the Commissar to an artillery regiment, and spends most of her time riding around on a truck or walking around in a camp. She's not necessarily an infantry soldier.
It irritates me because of the below:
No cleavage and no probably no heels.
Amaya wrote:Nope. Heels are impractical in any military scenario. Cleavage can be forgiven somewhat. Men have fought bare chested. It's still dumb though.
Agreed.
Lynata wrote:No problem with the corset, but the heels are what made me grimace too as I saw that pic.
It's not even heels per se - in real life, there actually was a time when even military men or male pirates etc sported rather pronounced heels. But here they're just way too thin, modern-day-style.
That being said, I'm fairly sure that character 's supposed to be /tg/s Commissar Raege, anyways. FFG 40k books are full of 4chan memes these days.
Nope. Its
Playing Zara Harper
Zara holds the stern demeanour typical of a Commissar,
however she is deceptively charming and charismatic.
She can command, motivate, and persuade even the most
stubborn Guardsmen without ever even reaching for her
bolt pistol. The Guardsmen she serves alongside treat her as
one of their own, gladly obeying every command.
She's a commissar for a Catachan regiment.
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Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2013/03/12 20:44:07
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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o.0
I thought the Catachans killed any Commissar sent to them?
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2013/03/12 20:50:42
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dakka Veteran
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They still do. Its probable that this Commissar earned their respect and such.
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Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2013/03/12 20:58:49
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
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Corporal_Reznov wrote:Psienesis wrote:The Commissar in the uniform with the power-fist isn't really that bad. Considering the real-world basis for the Commissariat, on top of the sci-fi-Gothic vibe of 40K in general, the corset-top is not really that out of place.
The heels on her boots? Maybe... but maybe she's the Commissar to an artillery regiment, and spends most of her time riding around on a truck or walking around in a camp. She's not necessarily an infantry soldier.
It irritates me because of the below:
No cleavage and no probably no heels.
Amaya wrote:Nope. Heels are impractical in any military scenario. Cleavage can be forgiven somewhat. Men have fought bare chested. It's still dumb though.
Agreed.
Lynata wrote:No problem with the corset, but the heels are what made me grimace too as I saw that pic.
It's not even heels per se - in real life, there actually was a time when even military men or male pirates etc sported rather pronounced heels. But here they're just way too thin, modern-day-style.
That being said, I'm fairly sure that character 's supposed to be /tg/s Commissar Raege, anyways. FFG 40k books are full of 4chan memes these days.
Nope. Its
Playing Zara Harper
Zara holds the stern demeanour typical of a Commissar,
however she is deceptively charming and charismatic.
She can command, motivate, and persuade even the most
stubborn Guardsmen without ever even reaching for her
bolt pistol. The Guardsmen she serves alongside treat her as
one of their own, gladly obeying every command.
She's a commissar for a Catachan regiment.
Heels like this are fine but yes, unless she leads from a orbiting capital ship then those other ones are too much.
There's a reason any commissar wouldn't execute Catachans - they have the same rep as the Canadians in WWII - that they shoot their own officers over harsh discipline.
That's most likely the reason she's so respected - by having as many balls as those under her command. (and no doubt deserving a decent model)
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{url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675142.page]{img]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/11/8/429237_md-.jpg{/img]{/url] |
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2013/03/12 21:09:28
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Asking GW for more, non sexy, minis...
is almost like asking mattel for fat, slovenly, stubbly chinned, lower class pay roll ken dolls for barbie
sure its more realistic, but is it going to appeal to the girls barbie toys are marketed too? do we want the fantasy world to be realistic?
Id like it if the uber muscle maness of the guard and such was toned down to non crazy levels (for non genitcally/warp enhanced stuff ofc)
and I would also like it if the uber sexy few and far between female models became more common, and more practical
so in short, I want both male/female models to be realistic when they are used, not this over done uber extreme form of both genders.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 21:10:27
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2013/03/12 21:16:26
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Corporal_Reznov wrote:Nope. Its Zara Harper [...]
Well, yeah ... duh. 
Of course they'd not make it that obvious.
Maybe I'm also starting to see memes where none exist, but ever since Love Can Bloom popped up in a DH supplement I've started to keep my eyes open. I'm also convinced the girl on the Black Crusade cover is supposed to be Cultist-chan - the "Chaos wheel" on her back is a fairly unique accessory.
Psienesis wrote:I thought the Catachans killed any Commissar sent to them?
Oh come on, it's only 1 out of 6 Commissars, statistically. 
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2013/03/12 21:28:51
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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It also bears noting that, at least when I was still in the service, the dress uniform for female soldiers included a skirt and heels. If Commissars are expected to always be in "Class A" uniform, this could simply be a mandate from the Commissariat.
Also, again, sci-fi-Gothic.
And... true... 1 in 6. The other 5 were "killed in action" by "sudden ambush by Ork Kommandos" when no previous Ork presence had been detected, or "stumbled into a Catachan Devil Nest (while on planet designate: Thracia)" or "drank water he was advised he shouldn't", right?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 21:30:15
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2013/03/12 21:31:54
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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The heels on the female Commissar are silly, yes, but I also don't think it's fair to get fixated on them and then forget the rest of the book. The Only War book mostly treats the sexes equally and one flawed piece of artwork (even that picture isn't beyond hope, at least she looks quite aggressive rather than pouty and knock-kneed) shouldn't invalidate the many excellent portrayals of Guardswomen in there.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 21:32:44
Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. |
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2013/03/12 22:16:39
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Mighty Vampire Count
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I am still waiting for someone to do a line of miniatures from my current fave TV show Spartacus. You get men and women, fully clothed through to..........soooo not. A kickstarter would be cool - although Hasslefree might do it anyway
At least one of my female friends digs Saxa - who is confident, sexy and also great with her knives. A recent comment was that her limited clothing gave her a distraction edge against males (not quite how she put but you get the idea). Not sure if in reality it makes any sense in combat but I am willing to go along with her and the idea in a fantasy world like 40k
Clothing is like armour, in many wars in history it was limited I would like to see a good mixture in the 40k range - ie more of what we have already and stuff we don't have:
so we have the scantly cald where it makes sense: Dark Eldar wyches, Daemonettes etc - add in specific Guard Regiments
Through to fully armoured women: Eldar Guardians and Sisters: Add in guardswomen and more Sisters, some female warriors for the other Eldar aspects - Farseers and Spirit Seers - Again there is already a female Spirit Seer in previous Eldar Codex- but no model :(
A mixture of the above - I would love to have a Amberely and Cain set - Amberely could be in her usual "imperial noblewoman" cover story but also in her Hv bolter/ powerfist equiped Artificer armour .
Valeria would be an interesting model to create - as there is no picture of her..................lots of options.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/12 22:28:38
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos 
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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2013/03/12 22:17:06
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Psienesis wrote:It also bears noting that, at least when I was still in the service, the dress uniform for female soldiers included a skirt and heels. If Commissars are expected to always be in "Class A" uniform, this could simply be a mandate from the Commissariat.
Well, that thought has merit, but we shouldn't forget that we're still living in a culture that has a long history of having issues accepting women as soldiers, extending into the present day. The Imperium seems different, at least as far as the Schola Progenium is concerned.
Then again, the Femmissar mini produced by GW had heels (albeit a bit thicker) as well, so ... 
Psienesis wrote:And... true... 1 in 6. The other 5 were "killed in action" by "sudden ambush by Ork Kommandos" when no previous Ork presence had been detected, or "stumbled into a Catachan Devil Nest (while on planet designate: Thracia)" or "drank water he was advised he shouldn't", right?
Actually that was just a reference to the 1d6 roll you have to take for Commissars in a Codex Catachans Deathworld army.
Oops, Sorry Sir: Deathworld Veterans resent strangers telling them what to do or threatening their friends, so Commissars have a very difficult time maintaining control. They also suffer a disproportionally high number of ‘accidents’ when serving with Deathworld troops. Roll a D6 for each Commissar before setting them up (roll for models in reserve when they deploy onto the table). On a roll of 1, the Commissar has met with an unfortunate accident and cannot be used.
I take it that's where the unsourced "Catachans kill every Commissar" on their Lexicanum article originates from.
Mr Morden wrote:Clothing is like armour, in many wars in history it was limited
In some cases it can easily explained by cultural habits. There's IG regiments where the men run around half-naked because, well, they're tribals.
Take WoW night elves for example. We all know why they look like they do, but in-universe it even makes sense considering their history and the fact that they much prefer shooting from ambushes atop trees to getting into close combat, hence bikini armour = sufficient.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 22:23:04
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2013/03/12 22:23:53
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dakka Veteran
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Fezman wrote:The heels on the female Commissar are silly, yes, but I also don't think it's fair to get fixated on them and then forget the rest of the book. The Only War book mostly treats the sexes equally and one flawed piece of artwork (even that picture isn't beyond hope, at least she looks quite aggressive rather than pouty and knock-kneed) shouldn't invalidate the many excellent portrayals of Guardswomen in there.
 I'm not really fixating. I was just pointing out that even FFG does stupid things when it comes to 40k females. But majority of the time women are portrayed excellently. GW on the other hand is just . Only War and all of the 40k rpg's put death to the thought that the Imperium is sexist.
Lynata wrote:Psienesis wrote:It also bears noting that, at least when I was still in the service, the dress uniform for female soldiers included a skirt and heels. If Commissars are expected to always be in "Class A" uniform, this could simply be a mandate from the Commissariat.
Well, that thought has merit, but we shouldn't forget that we're still living in a culture that has a long history of having issues accepting women as soldiers, extending into the present day. The Imperium seems different, at least as far as the Schola Progenium is concerned.
Not only the Schola Progenium. It applies to every instituation other than the SM's. The Imperium has no problem with women in high positions.
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Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2013/03/12 22:39:42
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Corporal_Reznov wrote:GW on the other hand is just
I dunno, GW published some very cool Sisters fluff, including short stories such as this one - and put them on one level with the Space Marines, very much unlike they are portrayed by FFG.
Granted, I have a feeling that's more connected to making Marines more awesome rather than making Sisters less awesome, but still.
Corporal_Reznov wrote:Not only the Schola Progenium. It applies to every instituation other than the SM's. The Imperium has no problem with women in high positions.
Yep. The Imperial Guard might be different, as it is largely influenced by the individual regiments' homeworlds - but the Commissariat recruits differently, tapping the same source of manpower that also trains future Battle Sisters. I just mentioned the Schola as it is easier to "prove", at least if we were to look at GW material.
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2013/03/12 22:43:49
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Mysterious Techpriest
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Amaya wrote:Nope. Heels are impractical in any military scenario. Cleavage can be forgiven somewhat. Men have fought bare chested. It's still dumb though.
The Commissariat has non-combat commissars too: being halfway to an intelligence agency it has plenty of desk jobs and ceremonial officers.
Lynata wrote:Take WoW night elves for example. We all know why they look like they do
Because Warcraft is a shallow, two-bit ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy?
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2013/03/12 23:00:03
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Dakka Veteran
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Lynata wrote:I dunno, GW published some very cool Sisters fluff, including short stories such as this one - and put them on one level with the Space Marines, very much unlike they are portrayed by FFG.
Granted, I have a feeling that's more connected to making Marines more awesome rather than making Sisters less awesome, but still.
I have no problem with this. Sisters don't have all the genetic tinkering SM's get. They overcome such via their faith, magic, training and numbers.
Also, IG do this:
Yep. The Imperial Guard might be different, as it is largely influenced by the individual regiments' homeworlds - but the Commissariat recruits differently, tapping the same source of manpower that also trains future Battle Sisters. I just mentioned the Schola as it is easier to "prove", at least if we were to look at GW material.
It can be proven using any of the materials. Its just you and your usual dance of going on and on about GW and how other sources are bad or not good? cause not made by GW directly.
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
Because Warcraft is a shallow, two-bit ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy?
Did you really have to go there?
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Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
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2013/03/12 23:01:26
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The Commissariat has non-combat commissars too: being halfway to an intelligence agency it has plenty of desk jobs and ceremonial officers.
That sounds like some BL "extension"? The original description indeed only knows one type of Commissar - so much so that they train their cadets on the battlefield.
Not to mention that at least in the case of GW's miniature as well as FFG's character class, both are intended to portray battlefield Commissars, even if such a hypothetical noncom-commissar ("noncommissar"? ) would exist.
Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Because Warcraft is a shallow, two-bit ripoff of Warhammer Fantasy?
I was more referring to the "sex sells" fanservice.
Unfortunately, this aspect has gotten a lot stronger over the years. WC3 feral amazons > WoW girly cheerleaders who dropped their xenophobia and magophobia overnight
Corporal_Reznov wrote: It can be proven using any of the materials. Its just you and your usual dance of going on and on about GW and how other sources are bad or not good? cause not made by GW directly.
There's quite a lot of material that doesn't even touch the subject with a ten foot pole - which is what presumably led quite a number of dakkanauts in this thread to proclaim the Imperium as sexist as they got the impression from whatever they read.
As for GW material, I just regard it as a sort of common basis. You'll find more people agreeing on, say, a Codex than you will on a particular Black Library novel - which makes it less controversial and thus more useful for a discussion. (not to mention that it is at least possible that some novel also portrays a sexist Imperium)
At least that's how I see it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 23:08:04
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2013/03/12 23:12:09
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Mighty Vampire Count
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"You'll find more people agreeing on, say, a Codex than you will on a particular Black Library novel "
Not always - opinion is pretty divided about the changes in the information in the recent Necron and Grey Knights Codex's and often gets a little inflamed.............
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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2013/03/12 23:14:13
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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And, again, we're not arguing that the IoM, or the 40K universe, in its fluff, is sexist or misogynistic. In fact, I think we have fairly established that, by the fluff, it isn't.
The problem then comes down to real-world products available for portraying what we know to be the case from the fluff. As I said 20 pages ago, I *can* buy third-party miniatures to fill the table-top roles that my IG or =I= armies may have females taking, I simply can't really do it with a GW product.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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