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I'm building a 1000 point list and my main question is if a 1000 point list can be viable with only 2 grey hunter squads rather the typical 3 I've seen posted. If so, what is the best way to round it out? For the Long Fangs, I'm going for some variety. My Lamenters list (BA codex) already has missile spam. I can get to 751 with no problem, but I don't know how to finish it. I'm considering 2 predators and a lone wolf (after dropping a long fang), 3 land speeders with missiles or assault cannons (again, after dropping a long fang), or dropping the priest and long fangs for a Lord on a thunderwolf and 5 TWC. I might like some scouts if I can find a place eventually. I know this isn't a full list so it may not fit this board, but I didn't see this topic fitting in any other board better than this. Thanks for your time.

HQ
Rune Priest with master of runes
150

elites
2x wolf guard with combi weapons
46

troops
9x grey hunters with plasma gun, wolf standard, and mark of the wulfen in rhino
205

8x grey hunters with plasma gun, wolf standard, and mark of the wulfen in rhino
190

heavy support
6x long fangs with 2 missile launchers, lascannon, heavy bolter, plasma cannon
160

total so far: 751

You need three wolf guard to make a full squad. IMO you need to decide what to dew with your long fangs. Are they infantry killers? Are they tank hunters? My wolves have a set of Long Fangs for each. As far as what to add... The world is your oyster but I think your points could be better spent on something other than a lone wolf.

^^^^ Everything he said. ^^^^

The wolf guard are pointless in the configuration your going for, they dont add any close combat prowess and there combi-weapons are one shot job's if you add an extra hunter to each squad instead then your special weapon can be shot every turn and is free as you have a 10th man.

Rune Priest - master of runes is a waste of points for 50 points, either naked or with a chooser of the slain is the way to go.

Long fangs i find best way to fit long fang packs is either 2 lascannons and 3 missile launchers or 5 heavy bolters for anti infantry, or the classic 5 missile launchers.

If you make the changes i suggest you overall would be perhaps saving aroundf 40 points off what you have now.

That leaves you with quite a bit to play with, personally i like TWC but any tournament player will tell you not to take them, so you have a couple of options - take another grey hunter squad, or a long fang pack with heavy bolters and a lone wolf?

You could probably afford a pack of wolf guard terminators if that's more your style too

How are predators for Space Wolves? Would I be better off with speeders for delivering heavy weapons?
Thanks again, everyone.

IMHO Predators are meh. The big problem is that they eat up a heavy support slot that would be better filled by MOAR LONG FANGS!

This goes for pretty much all of the vehicles in the heavy support section - although some people will mix them in just for fun and flavor.

Here's the breakdown as I see it.

Predator : For what you pay, you get less firepower than an equally priced Long Fang squad and the predator can be destroyed with one shot. Unless you have some special plan where you need a metal box to move AND shoot, I'd say skip it.

Whirlwind : Same as above, except you can't move the WW if it wants to shoot. The worst heavy support choice IMO.

Vindicator : Who doesn't like S10 AP2 Templates of doom? The thing is, that if you take one you should really take 3. But then you can't have any long fangs. I'm not saying you can't pull it off, I'm just saying you have to make a decision.

Land Raider : Only if it's going to be filled with wild eyed killers. But that means it's really too expensive to have more than one, so you still have slots for a pair of LF squads.

I think you could work in some land speeders, but I would avoid buying any models until you have built up your core first. In my opinion, if you're gonna rock land speeders, you should bring more than one and they should have multi-meltas. But buying - say 3 land speeders will run you about $100 and 180 points. For the money, two boxes of Grey Hunters is a better choice to expand up to and beyond 1000 points.

Yeah that was my concern about heavy support. I plan on a core of about 700 to 750 with the remainder of the 1000 for flavor. Predators could work out, but I'm always worried about those lucky hits. Vindicators are out because I don't have the points to run more than one fire magnet. IMO, Land Raiders never seem worth taking unless the list is built around them and their passengers. Whirlwinds?
Speeders and TWC, while not heavy support, are what I'm leaning to right now. I'd probably switch from speeders to TWC depending on my mood. 3 speeders would be cheaper than 2 preds ($) and I get my new 40k plastic kits at a good discount so it's not a terrible pill to swallow for them. Does anyone know if it's typically best to squadron or have 3 units of individual speeders in a 1000 point game?

The ONLY advantage that speeders have over TWC is that they are easier to paint. (and I guess they move faster too). But consider this

0) A box of 3 TWC costs $54, while 3 land speeders costs $90.

1) Each speeder must be customized as anti-tank or anti-infantry. For a squadron of 3 speeders, it costs 30 points for 3 multi-melta shots. On the other hand, TWC, are awesome anti-infantry in CC without any wargear. To make them AT also, it costs 5 pts per model for meltabombs and for 25 - 30 points more you can have a S10 powerfist or Thunderhammer with 5 atttacks on the charge. Devastating to armor.

2) Speeders cannot claim or deny an objective because they're vehicles. TWC cannot claim, but can deny.

3) Both TWC and speeders are vulnerable to massed bolter fire. With enough shots, you'll eventually kill them all. But consider krak missiles. It is possible to kill a land speeder with one krak missile. But a TWC will just take a wound (T5 vs. S8 = no instant death).

4) A land speeder can have a free 4+ invulnerable 'jink' save, but it has to move flat out to get it and so you can't have it if you want to shoot. TWC can have as many 3+ invulnerable stormshields as it has models - for 30 points each.

I find uses for just about everything here, other than whirlwinds (and Land Raiders). Predators are cheap and can take some fire off an advancing force. Right now, I'm running two Long Fang packs (one all missile launchers, one with missiles and lascannons) and apredator with autocannon and sponson heavy bolters. For 85 points, it's a great anti-infantry platform. It pushes forward with my 2 Rhinos and my 2 Thunderwolf Cavalry packs run close behind. I drop pod 3 more units of Grey Hunters for additional cover. The Long Fangs take cover in an Aegis Defense Line, joined by a Rune Priest, who mans the quad-gun. It works out pretty well. If people shoot the predator, great! It's the cheapest weakest thing I have on board. If they don't kill it ASAP, it'll pay for itself in a couple turns.

Also, I think Vindicators are great, but only in a mid-field gun-line army. You don't want to run them with a drop podding or extremely aggressive force, because you run the risk of dropping that template on your own Grey Hunters. (I also think if you take 1, you should take at least 1 more. They will get targeted, so it's best to have a couple)

Erik the Red wrote:
Predators are cheap and can take some fire off an advancing force. Right now, I'm running two Long Fang packs (one all missile launchers, one with missiles and lascannons) and apredator with autocannon and sponson heavy bolters. For 85 points, it's a great anti-infantry platform. It pushes forward with my 2 Rhinos and my 2 Thunderwolf Cavalry packs run close behind.

But this is what I mean by having a special tactic that only the predator can use. If your predator was not simultaneously (1) shooting infantry, (2) providing cover for your TWC, (3) moving forward and (4) drawing fire, then almost any other heavy support choice would be better. For example, if you only need to accomplish #1, #2 and #4 take a vindicator instead. Just need #1,#2 and #3? Take a Razorback. Just #2 and #3? A Rhino is fine. How about just #1 and #4? Then you want Long Fangs.

See what I mean? The predator fits Erik's army because of a specific tactic. A good tactic, yes, but one that is tailored to his army.

How many stormshields would you say is good for TWC? If I take a 5 man TWC squad, I may have 3 shields on TWC with a special weapon and two vanilla TWC. That's a lot of points, however.

 dario wrote:
How many stormshields would you say is good for TWC? If I take a 5 man TWC squad, I may have 3 shields on TWC with a special weapon and two vanilla TWC. That's a lot of points, however.

Depends on the list really. Don't worry about that now though, because we're still talking about a 1000 point army. Instead, if you really want to buy and build some TWC, then make sure to magnetize all of the arms so that you can load them out however you want later.

That was one of the variants of the list I was thinking of. It's quite a deviation though. It would basically have the same troops and long fangs, dropping the priest for a lord on a mount and adding 5 TWC. I was thinking of just marching the TWC up behind the rhinos.

Take a look at these lists...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/502757.page

and

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/510074.page

I think this is what you're getting at.

I dig it. Those are sort of like scaled up versions of what I'm interested in, with some key differences. I guess my final question is if 20 grey hunters is enough in a 1000 point game? I'm sure they're killy enough, but if I got two up front, it would be hard to backtrack and get up objective depending on the board setup.
Also, I'm curious to know how those blood claws worked out for you. I've always thought they looked fun and I've fantasized about spamming as many as possible.

As a general rule of thumb for space wolves, you should have, minimum, 1 troop unit per 500 points of army. So yes, 20 Grey hunters in a 1000 point army is enough, but yes, 30 or 40 would be better.

You could allways take 2 full 10 man packs and a 5 min to sit back and objective grab....

Quick anecdote on Long Fangs versus other HS. I played Wolves vs Wolves in a tournament, he had two Vindis and a Pred. I had three LF packs (13 ML and 2LC).

Turn 1 both Vindicators are dead, turn 3 the Predator goes down. Turn 3 I have lost two LF SGTs.

I know this isn't a long term statistical analysis, but when used correctly LFs are more durable for the points than the armored options.


On TWC, I generally run two SSs. One at the front, one on the Thunderhammer (which should probably be a PF, but TH looks so much cooler)

If I run Wolf Lords (one has a shield, one has a belt of russ) it shifts a bit, I like to have one SS next to each Wolf Lord in case they go low on wounds and are out of Wolves.