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Hello,

Could someone spell out which portions of the Death from the Skies are rules legal without , and try not to get bent out of shape by my meaning, opponents permission? Now let me say that I totally understand your opponent's permission is kind of the point about playing with your opponent.

I am more of talking about listbuilding and when I build the list I know the rules from the back for the existing flyers are the actual rules for those flyers now. But what about the Dogfighting (I think it says opponents permission)? Or the Ace Pilot Upgrades? Could I take Ace Pilot Upgraded Flyer to a generic run of the mill tourney and be reasonably expected to be allowed to participate?

Its really hard to explain what I am asking, without trying to sound like a d-bag who is trying to bend rules or something. I assure you that is not the case. I run games out of my garage alot, and we allow Imperial Armour and Apoc models often.

I'll try it from another angle. Editions update, most of us transfers over with the rules to the next edition. Where does DFTS fall into as far as edition updates. What, per DFTS is legit GW 6th edition?

Thanks for trying to read through my question and I appreciate any info given.

I would consider it a lot more legal for tournament use than a Forge World book. I wouldn't see the problem in using it at all.

I haven't personally seen the new book, but as I recall in Crusade of Fire, it's suggested that the whole "Burning Skies" section is something that's optional and needs to be agreed upon, which would include the Ace upgrades.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
I haven't personally seen the new book, but as I recall in Crusade of Fire, it's suggested that the whole "Burning Skies" section is something that's optional and needs to be agreed upon, which would include the Ace upgrades.

DFtS states that the dogfighting rules are optional, but only says that "fighter aces are upgrades to flyers in Warhammer 40,000". There is nothing said about them being optional rules.

I think in answer to the OP's question, Stormravens are now available to Space Marines and Black Templars (as well as Stormtalons). These two Codex, along with Blood Angels and the Grey Knight now all use the rules for Stormravens from the DFtS book. Pretty much the same. Grey Knights are forced to switch out weapons to match the one in their codex, and both will still have their relevant gear and options. Pretty sure all 4 will have to take it as a Heavy Support choice, which changes if it's different in the BA/GK books.

The Dogfight rules are optional, but there is some shenanigan thing where if one player does and the other doesn't, then a dice off makes it legal or some such nonsense. The 'Fighter Aces' falls under this section, but they way it's laid out leaves it ambiguous and open to interpretation. Even if the 'Aces' thing is official, there is nothing gamebreaking in the Aces, and they didn't take the opportunity to change it from the WD printing. (Seriously, re-rolling 1's to hit with shooting weapons on Necron flyers, where the only weapons that would benefit from it are already twin-linked...)

The limited availability means that it will either not be accepted, or just take a while for everyone to accept the changes. TO's will have the final say obviously. I see the Dogfight rules not being used, but the Stormraven/Stormtalon will eventually become 'Official'. I do not own the book, but was able to read a friends copy, and will be borrowing hopefully this week, so take what's posted here as only from memory. Most of it Im pretty sure about, others Im not so clear on, since I plan on getting the book for a good read.

-Hope this helps in the meantime.

EDIT: Just saw the DFtS FAQ, Grey Knight Stormravens are still FA

I paged through a friends book yesterday and saw SW aces... but I don't remember them having flyers.... what did I miss?

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:
I haven't personally seen the new book, but as I recall in Crusade of Fire, it's suggested that the whole "Burning Skies" section is something that's optional and needs to be agreed upon, which would include the Ace upgrades.

DFtS states that the dogfighting rules are optional, but only says that "fighter aces are upgrades to flyers in Warhammer 40,000". There is nothing said about them being optional rules.

But since most of the Fighter Aces upgrades specifically mention the dogfighting rules, where does that leave you?

 kronk wrote:

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:
I haven't personally seen the new book, but as I recall in Crusade of Fire, it's suggested that the whole "Burning Skies" section is something that's optional and needs to be agreed upon, which would include the Ace upgrades.

DFtS states that the dogfighting rules are optional, but only says that "fighter aces are upgrades to flyers in Warhammer 40,000". There is nothing said about them being optional rules.

But since most of the Fighter Aces upgrades specifically mention the dogfighting rules, where does that leave you?

I'd see it as no different than rules that refer to night fighting... sometimes it just doesn't apply, so no benefit is derived

Again, help me folks, why do we have Space Wolf aces? Is it for StormEagles?