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So i was wandering if anyone has played with 3 talons and 3 ravens in a space marine force. Or have played against it. Im looking to invest in the ravens but i want to avoid just having another dust collector on my shelf.

Haven't seen it yet, I'd imagine its because SM has only had access to ravens for a week or so now. For the 6 flyers you'd be looking at 930 points base so its doable, I don't know if it would be as powerful as a necron flier list though. What would you run with the rest of the list? The ravens would give you nasty dread drop potential.

Iv got the talons and 3 mortis pattern dreads. Maybe combat squad 5 tacs in each raven and on the ground in razorbacks. Haven't done the math on it yet though codex is the other room and im in ultra lazy mode at the moment

Can you deploy a squad in a rback and have the other half deploy in the raven?
I've never fielded an air transport so I'm not sure at all how deploying in a vehicle that is not a dedicated transport works.

You know im not sure either, if so this may be a tactic ill try. Maybe through some scouts in or something. Im not sure.

I dont think you can do that. If you combat squad both squads have to be on the table or at least come on at the same time (Via deep strike for instance where they combat squad when they deploy.) Having 1 squad in a Raven off the table i think would break this rule

Than you for the sorting that out sir. Some things are just too good to be true i suppose

Well there's always this for a lark...

Master of the Forge - 100
5 Scouts - 75
5 Scouts - 75
Stormtalon - 110
Stormtalon - 110
Stormtalon - 110
-all vanilla-
Stormraven - 200
Stormraven - 200
Stormraven - 200
-all multi-melta and assault cannon-

Allies
Coteaz - 100
3 Warrior Acolytes - 12
Stormraven - 205

=I= 1497 =I=

You would have 15 models at most on the table turn one and at best a 3up cover save in one piece of terrain with that list. Youd be leaving yourself open to being tabled in the first turn and if not that youd have no real way to hold stuff.

UncleGlock wrote:
You would have 15 models at most on the table turn one and at best a 3up cover save in one piece of terrain with that list. Youd be leaving yourself open to being tabled in the first turn and if not that youd have no real way to hold stuff.

While my list was kind of a joke list, I would be intrigued at what could table this in a single turn. Pods could I suppose, but you do still have 5 x 2+ armour save wounds to get through and bolstered terrain. You just stay out of sight. The only challenge would be drop pod armies and even then some smart deploying would be fine.

If you were really that fussed, you could just dump the grey knight bit and swap the techmarine and scouts with a librarian (divination rolls to pray for scryer's gaze) and tactical marines.

I tought the raven was fast attack these days with that book.

 Messy0 wrote:
I dont think you can do that. If you combat squad both squads have to be on the table or at least come on at the same time (Via deep strike for instance where they combat squad when they deploy.) Having 1 squad in a Raven off the table i think would break this rule

Please give a BRB citation for what you're saying. Once squads are split into combat squads, they are treated as separate units and can therefore deploy however/wherever they like.

You want one half in its Razorback and one half in a SR? Done. One half in reserve and one half in a LR? Done. One half in reserve walking on and one half in its Rhino? Why couldn't you do any of these?

The thing, with all these tiny squads, that you'll have to watch out for is how many units you can have in reserve. You can have up to half your units in reserve. (Flyers, as they must start in reserve, don't count toward this.) But all the squads inside the SR do count.

If you ran the 6 flyer (3x talons with Skyhammer and 3x Ravens with AC/MM and Hurricane Bolters) and then put 3 10 man tacs on the board in rhinos turn 1 with a libby and ADL with Comms relay....yep. Good luck killing 30 marines turn 1.....and thats at 1910 with a PW, specials, and heavys in the tacs.

From experiance. Never put anything in a stormraven. When they get popped its is too devestating.

Edited to add List

HQ:
Libby

Troops:
Tac Squad x10
PW
Flamer
HB
Rhino

Tac Squad x10
PW
Plasma gun
HB
Rhino

Tac Squad x10
PW
Meltagun
ML
Rhino

Scout Squad x5
Camo Cloaks

Fast Attack:
Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer ML

Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer ML

Stormtalon w/ Skyhammer ML

Heavy Support:
Stormraven w/ AC, MM, and Hurricane Bolters

Stormraven w/ AC, MM, and Hurricane Bolters

Stormraven w/ AC, MM, and Hurricane Bolters

Fortification:
ADL w/ Comms Relay

2000 on the nose.

Yeah holding objectives could be a problem and being tabled by drop pod lists as well. What if i thew in some blobs of ig on the table,to have boots on the ground.

rossatdi wrote:

UncleGlock wrote:
You would have 15 models at most on the table turn one and at best a 3up cover save in one piece of terrain with that list. Youd be leaving yourself open to being tabled in the first turn and if not that youd have no real way to hold stuff.

While my list was kind of a joke list, I would be intrigued at what could table this in a single turn. Pods could I suppose, but you do still have 5 x 2+ armour save wounds to get through and bolstered terrain. You just stay out of sight. The only challenge would be drop pod armies and even then some smart deploying would be fine.

If you were really that fussed, you could just dump the grey knight bit and swap the techmarine and scouts with a librarian (divination rolls to pray for scryer's gaze) and tactical marines.

Where in your list are you getting +2 armor saves? Your scouts dont have no camo cloaks for 75 points so they have at best a +3 cover save from bolstered ruins. Coteaz is your only +2 armor save and one las cannon or melta and he fails his cover hes gone. I run drop pods and baal preds in most my lists, i can easily get 3 baal preds with scout move over to you, i can prob even get the flamer over to you on turn one also. I also run furiosos with the frag cannon in drop pods alot so your cover save is gone and with the heavy flamer your armor save is gone. The idea of 6 flyers sounds cool but i run Stormravens with my BAs and they take up alot of space on the table and having 4 of them and trying to place 3 Talons is gonna be fun each turn.

 Messy0 wrote:
I dont think you can do that. If you combat squad both squads have to be on the table or at least come on at the same time (Via deep strike for instance where they combat squad when they deploy.) Having 1 squad in a Raven off the table i think would break this rule

This has changed. Now combat squading comes just before deployment, so you can choose to put half in reserve and half on the table if you want, so half could go into a SR and half in a razor.

UncleGlock wrote:

rossatdi wrote:

UncleGlock wrote:
You would have 15 models at most on the table turn one and at best a 3up cover save in one piece of terrain with that list. Youd be leaving yourself open to being tabled in the first turn and if not that youd have no real way to hold stuff.

While my list was kind of a joke list, I would be intrigued at what could table this in a single turn. Pods could I suppose, but you do still have 5 x 2+ armour save wounds to get through and bolstered terrain. You just stay out of sight. The only challenge would be drop pod armies and even then some smart deploying would be fine.

If you were really that fussed, you could just dump the grey knight bit and swap the techmarine and scouts with a librarian (divination rolls to pray for scryer's gaze) and tactical marines.

Where in your list are you getting +2 armor saves? Your scouts dont have no camo cloaks for 75 points so they have at best a +3 cover save from bolstered ruins. Coteaz is your only +2 armor save and one las cannon or melta and he fails his cover hes gone. I run drop pods and baal preds in most my lists, i can easily get 3 baal preds with scout move over to you, i can prob even get the flamer over to you on turn one also. I also run furiosos with the frag cannon in drop pods alot so your cover save is gone and with the heavy flamer your armor save is gone. The idea of 6 flyers sounds cool but i run Stormravens with my BAs and they take up alot of space on the table and having 4 of them and trying to place 3 Talons is gonna be fun each turn.

The Master of the Forge has artificer armour. You seem to be getting quite worked up about a thought experiment list.

Why on earth would you run this silly list and deploy any of your ground troops within los of lascannons etc? Unless you're playing on specifically themed boards or open tables, there's normally a good few pieces of los breaking terrain. Pods are great, and are a great way of kicking flyer heavy lists in the arse, but it'd would be also be very terrain dependent for get into a position to shoot to death Coteaz + squad and Master of the Forge + squad.

You've kind of jumped on trying to prove that a silly list is beatable - I applaud you, yes it, of course it is. I just think its kind of funny - especially against the large number of armies that can't reach squads hiding out of sight in the far corner of a deployment zone.

So the general consensus is that 3 talons and 3 ravens would not be a start to a solid sm build.

Hmmm, well it could be a stout list. I personally wouldn't make a list that worries about specialist armies. I mean that would have to take into account way too many forces.

Don't Storm Talons have the Escort special rule? Wouldn't that mean if you took a tac squad in a drop pod and brought them in turn one, a storm talon could "escort" them in on turn one as well? Being a DA player I don't know all that much about the Talon.

So drop the razorbacks in favor of drop pods?