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Someone Please tell me there is a un—rule abiding part in this army list and its use—my friend uses it and always wins

HQ
Overlord—90
Lord—35
Lord—35
Troops
5 Warriors—65
Night Scythe—100
5 Warriors—65
Night Scythe—100
5 Warriors—65
Night Scythe—100
5 Warriors—65
Night Scythe—100
5 Warriors—65
Night Scythe—100
5 Warriors—65
Night Scythe—100
Heavy Support
Doom Scythe—175
Doom Scythe—175

Total—1500

He puts the lords with necron warrior units, then the overlod with a different one, and each turn the flyers come in from reserves and move 36" across the board, then go flat out and leave combat airspace. on the last turn, he drops off the squads of necron warriors to contest/capture all the objectives, and if he goes last, then he auto wins (even if it is a kill point battle, he drops all the necron warriors on the 2nd half of turn 6 and they shoot up one of my squads, winning him the game 1-0)

I play tyranids, so I cannot use the Aegis defence lines due to the new FaQ.

If there is not something that makes this list's tactics illegal in the rules, can I please have a bit of advice on how to beat it

All Help is Appreciated!

He loses turn 1 with no models on the board.

He has no models on the board. flyers cannot come on until turn 2 therefore, He loses everytime.

^ That.

Of course, this is easily fixed by having him ditch a transport and walk some robots onto the field. If you're playing Nids, I suggest trying to get up into the grills of the Warriors he's walking on as quickly as possible with as many bugs as possible. Warriors aren't *great* in CC, though with RP they might be something of a tar-pit, depending on how the dice go (unless you can destroy the entire squad... no squad, no RP).

I haven't played Nids in forever, but your gaunts should be able to shoot at his transports once they're in range, no? Sure, chances aren't great, but, hey, 6s happen.

THANK YOU SO MUCh!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I knew there was something fishy about it

And even if he does deploy something, if you can kill what he deploys he will still lose.

So if he deployed one lord in a corner, if you could shoot him off the board on turn 1 he'd lose.

If you play nids, take shooty bugs. As many as you can to deal with that. A flyrant with 2 TL devourers would blow up a 5 man warrior unit. That list is vey glass cannon. Also, cover the board with models. Field 200 termigaunts and spread them out over the whole board. If he has no place to fit his base.....

 Gunnvulcan wrote:
If you play nids, take shooty bugs. As many as you can to deal with that. A flyrant with 2 TL devourers would blow up a 5 man warrior unit. That list is vey glass cannon. Also, cover the board with models. Field 200 termigaunts and spread them out over the whole board. If he has no place to fit his base.....

This. While scythes are close to untouchable in the air, they can't take much down per turn either. Flood the board with cheap gants, make sure you have big nasty synapses to go around and make sure they don't fall back, then simply sit on the objectives.

And i don't think he can even leave all his units in reserve, since the warriors don't have to start the game in reserves (Or aboard the dedicated transport), flyers do.
So he would have to put some of the warriors on the table and all flyers in reserve, so that it would meet the 50% requirement.

No because the warriors are embarked on dedicated Flying transports they don't count toward reserves. This allows them to get around this rule. This also works for Deamons (for two more days at least.), drop pod armies and, Deathwing (at least it does IMHO.)

Also as has been stated as a tyranid player you have lots of cheap troops and troop spawners just make movement a bloody pain in his backside

First of all only half of your army can be reserved. In addition, HQ's count as a unit whether in reserves or on the table. Not sure of the lords, I assume they are like homonculi and that each one count as a unit.
Not sure about the models on transports not counting towards reserves, unless its in the Necron FAQ, IMHO I would say that the transports are still flyers and must start in reserve regardless.
If your opponent is reserving EVERYTHING then they are obvioulsy cheating, and I would say intentionally.
I would just camp the objectives and spawn gaunts....

flyers CANNOT leave combat airspace on the turn they arrived from reserves,

check out the BRB FAQ

SpiritOfPlatypus wrote:
First of all only half of your army can be reserved. In addition, HQ's count as a unit whether in reserves or on the table. Not sure of the lords, I assume they are like homonculi and that each one count as a unit.
Not sure about the models on transports not counting towards reserves, unless its in the Necron FAQ, IMHO I would say that the transports are still flyers and must start in reserve regardless.
If your opponent is reserving EVERYTHING then they are obvioulsy cheating, and I would say intentionally.
I would just camp the objectives and spawn gaunts....

Go read the flyers rules they specifically allow you to get around this. There are specific builds that ignore that rule in the FAQ and rulebook. It is a circukar way around that rule but it is legal.

also even if they are allowed to reserve their whole army (flyers or whatever) if they have nothing on the table because its all in reserve, they lose,

also in the FAQ

easysauce wrote:
also even if they are allowed to reserve their whole army (flyers or whatever) if they have nothing on the table because its all in reserve, they lose,

also in the FAQ

True as i pointed out in the second post.

Yes, if you are forced into reserves as Flyers are you can start the game with nothing on the table. drop pods are another example.

Of course, you will autolose unless you somehow get guys onto the board turn 1(like Drop Pods)


the list in the OP is legal, albiet stupid.

The annoying thing about this kind of list, is that if something has to start in reserve, it doesnt count for minimum 50% reserve rules, including the content's of a flying transport.

But as said, if there is ever a turn where he has nothing on the board, he auto-loses. So, he will put something small down, and hide it. Kill it. Then if all his flyers fly off the table, he just loses. So he has to then keep them on the table.

How to beat it? Kill his anchor unit (The unit he has to have on the board to not lose) and/or, flood the objectives with your own scoring unit's, or denial unit's so he can't get on them.

But it doesn't HAVE to start in reserve, he Chose to put them in a flying transport, the troop choice is the concern, if you CHOOSE to put them in a flyer, they count.
If you give a demon prince wings and you reserve him, he counts towards the total right?

If your opponent is playing necron by starting all his warriors on the board and then reserving his fliers, you shouldn't need our help to beat him.

In any case, as mentioned, there are restrictions on how much can go into reserves, and there is serious liability towards getting tabled before fliers have a chance to arrive. Note that that counts later into the game as well, if your opponent has all of his fliers off the board in ongoing reserves, and you kill off his ground units, you still win.

I don't play tyranid, so I can't help you directly, but I was under the impression that you had dakkafexes, etc. that could put down huge clouds of mid-strength firepower. Those fliers are only AV11. They may be tough to hit, but throw enough shots at them and you'll get a few. Once you hit, they're no more difficult to kill than a rhino.

K and here is why GW is confusing, from the BRB FAQ;s......
Q: If all of my units are either Flyers or embarked upon Flyers,
will I automatically lose the game as there are none of my
models on the gaming board at the end of Turn 1? (p122)
A: Yes.

And then...right below it......
Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start
in reserve count towards the number of units that can be
placed in Reserves? For example , must I count the units in a
Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50%of units I can place in
Reserves? (p124)
A: No.

So I would say that you could put all but one flyer in reserve, or all in reserve and some troops on the table, but if you choose to place them all in reserve, regardless of how they count towards your limit, you would lose at the beginning of your opponents turn.

SpiritOfPlatypus wrote:
K and here is why GW is confusing, from the BRB FAQ;s......
Q: If all of my units are either Flyers or embarked upon Flyers,
will I automatically lose the game as there are none of my
models on the gaming board at the end of Turn 1? (p122)
A: Yes.

And then...right below it......
Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start
in reserve count towards the number of units that can be
placed in Reserves? For example , must I count the units in a
Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50%of units I can place in
Reserves? (p124)
A: No.

So I would say that you could put all but one flyer in reserve, or all in reserve and some troops on the table, but if you choose to place them all in reserve, regardless of how they count towards your limit, you would lose at the beginning of your opponents turn.

That is correct this is why most necron flyer lists have an anchor unit that can survive a turn one barrage and allow all the fliers to come in.

 captain collius wrote:
No because the warriors are embarked on dedicated Flying transports they don't count toward reserves. This allows them to get around this rule. This also works for Deamons (for two more days at least.), drop pod armies and, Deathwing (at least it does IMHO.)

Also as has been stated as a tyranid player you have lots of cheap troops and troop spawners just make movement a bloody pain in his backside

Thats nice, he has no models on the table at the end of turn one, he loses the game.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
No because the warriors are embarked on dedicated Flying transports they don't count toward reserves. This allows them to get around this rule. This also works for Deamons (for two more days at least.), drop pod armies and, Deathwing (at least it does IMHO.)

Also as has been stated as a tyranid player you have lots of cheap troops and troop spawners just make movement a bloody pain in his backside

Thats nice, he has no models on the table at the end of turn one, he loses the game.

Read above he was saying that Croissant bakery is illegal. It is not he just need to put a unit on the field.

The list is not illegal. There are no rules stating that you can't take nothing but Warriors in Night Scythes and Doom Scythes.

A unit and its Dedicated Transport must be deployed together - you can't put the transport in reserve and the unit on the field. They don't have to be right next to each other, but they both have to be in the same deployment 'zone' (deployed, deep strike, infiltrating, reserved or outflanking).

Therefore, it IS illegal to deploy the Warrior squads if they all have Night Scythes.

The only models he can actually legitimately deploy are his Overlord and his Royal Court if he plays that list as you have written it.

However, as has been stated, any game turn (not player turn) that ends with no models on the board belonging to one player counts as an automatic annihilation victory for their opponent.

No, you can deploy the squad and the DT seperatly. The rules are that ONLY the squad may start in its DT. You can't have another unit in the DT at the start of the game.

But if the squad is in the Flyer, they don't count for the number of units that can go in reserves. So all the units can start in the flyers and be off the table(they don't HAVE to be in the flyers)

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The list is not illegal. There are no rules stating that you can't take nothing but Warriors in Night Scythes and Doom Scythes.

A unit and its Dedicated Transport must be deployed together - you can't put the transport in reserve and the unit on the field. They don't have to be right next to each other, but they both have to be in the same deployment 'zone' (deployed, deep strike, infiltrating, reserved or outflanking).

Therefore, it IS illegal to deploy the Warrior squads if they all have Night Scythes.

The only models he can actually legitimately deploy are his Overlord and his Royal Court if he plays that list as you have written it.

However, as has been stated, any game turn (not player turn) that ends with no models on the board belonging to one player counts as an automatic annihilation victory for their opponent.

Is that a Necron thing? I can deploy empty pods with my Marines should I wish. There is no requirement to fill it.

Maybe it's a hangover from the previous edition and it's only true with Guard Platoons now?

I think with Guard it is that if you keep the platoon in reserve you must roll for it to arrive as one unit and not its individual squads. They are not forced to be embarked in their Chimeras either.

I still get muddled all the time with new and old rules so I wouldn't worry about it!

Page 121 deals with deploying transport vehicles. There's nothing restricting you from deploying the transport and its unit separately.

Basically, it's not an illegal list, but the way he's playing it will make him auto lose turn 1. As a Tyranid player I have two main strategies to deal with flyer spam. The first is to rely on heavy reserves yourself, deepstriking in your opponent's deployment where they won't be able to shoot at your units the turn they arrive, then you shoot their croissants down with devilgants, dakkafex, pods with T/L deathspitters and dakka flyrants. The second way to beat the Necron bakery is with durability, multiple monstrous creatures with psychic buffs like Endurance/Catalyst and Iron Arm can simply outlast their shooting, you just weather the firepower and camp on objectives.

Thanks a lot everyone for your help