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Any news on our next meetup? Also, as a side note, would anyone be interested in playing some escalation? I don't have the book, or any superheavies yet, but I have been thinking about maybe getting a Cobra. Anyone else own any superheavies and/or have any interest in this? I don't want to make the investment if there is no desire to play elscalation.

The next time we meet is Feb. 8th at 1:00 at Manhattan Beach Community Church.

Sorry for being out of touch recently, between the holidays at work and some personal issues I have been rather consumed. I am looking forward to the nids release and bring some bugs on the 8th!

I might be willing to play against Super Heavies every now and then, but I am not currently interested in getting my own.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Any news on our next meetup? Also, as a side note, would anyone be interested in playing some escalation? I don't have the book, or any superheavies yet, but I have been thinking about maybe getting a Cobra. Anyone else own any superheavies and/or have any interest in this? I don't want to make the investment if there is no desire to play elscalation.

The problem with Escalation is that it you really have to discuss with your opponent ahead of time what 'type' of Escalation you guys want to play, and that really makes it hard to just show up to the shop with your Super-heavy and plan to get a game in.

There are really 3 different 'versions' of Escalation that all have their own horrible issues:


1) No-holds barred, anything goes from Escalation/Stronghold. If you're playing this type of game (and both opponents are ready for it), then it really comes down to a D-Weapon vs. Void Shields vs. who gets to go first. Or in other words, it can still be a competitive game, but it is extremely, extremely brutal and if one player isn't prepared to face D-Weapons then the game will be over in a matter of minutes.


2) Anything in Escalation/Stronghold allowed, but D-Weapons nerfed in some way (via houserule), such as just making then S10, AP1, Ordnance, re-roll all successfull saving throws (or something like that). This can totally help make a lot more of the Super-heavies viable, but taking out D-Weapons does mean that sme of the Gargantuan Creatures are a bit brutal to get through (as D-Weapons are kind of the hard counter for some of the bigger Gargantuan Creatures). So with D-weapons nerfed, you also then kind of need to ban some of the bigger Gargantuan Creatures or else they will totally dominate the game.


3) Anything in Escalation/Stronghold, but no D-weapons allowed at all...this again has the same issue as #2 (bigger GCs become really uber).



If I were to play 40K again, I would definitely be interested in playing some Escalation games, but they would have to be heavily controlled so we both had roughly similar armies. As a standalone supplement, Escalation is terribly, terribly out of balance...the points for D-Weapons do not come even close to matching their capabilities, so if one player has D-Weapons and the other doesn't, then the game will be a joke.

I do see your point here. I would be more in it for the "lol" factor than anything else. I am not a very competitive player, and would probably just go for the "no-holds barred" option. Even if the game becomes one sided and ends quickly, there is always the option of putting the Superheavies away and playing again with "standard" lists. I just wanted to see if anyone would be interested in the occasional Escalation game, just to mix it up. I also just really LOVE the Cobra Type II model. Even if I only was able to use it in one game a month, it would be worth paying for such a beautiful model. However, if never used, there is no way i could justify it buying it.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
I do see your point here. I would be more in it for the "lol" factor than anything else. I am not a very competitive player, and would probably just go for the "no-holds barred" option. Even if the game becomes one sided and ends quickly, there is always the option of putting the Superheavies away and playing again with "standard" lists. I just wanted to see if anyone would be interested in the occasional Escalation game, just to mix it up. I also just really LOVE the Cobra Type II model. Even if I only was able to use it in one game a month, it would be worth paying for such a beautiful model. However, if never used, there is no way i could justify it buying it.

If you haven't watched this, it can give you an idea of just how lol bad/quick the games can go:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/566996.page


Since then, they've played a bunch more Escalation games using lists where both sides have void shield generators and unit better tailored to face off against Escalation forces for some fun and exciting games, but you do really need to completely overhaul your army builds to a select few units if you want to allow a 'take all comers' style of Escalation where anyone can bring anything they want.

I have been following those. They are actually the very things that sparked my interest.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
I have been following those. They are actually the very things that sparked my interest.

They're definitely interesting games when the armies are totally designed with Escalation and Stronghold in mind, but playing this way really, really narrows down which models in each codex you can even *think* about bringing to the table lest you show up and see a Revenant facing you down.

The Cobra, for example, suffers from the fact that for only 225 more points you get to fire 4 Strength D blasts a turn (and 2 at a different target), has an amazing LOS (for being so tall) and can move so much further, make stomp attacks in CC, etc. So the Corbra is stuck in that limbo world where if you play someone who doesn't have D-weapons, then your Cobra is going to seem like a god, but if you're playing people in full-on Esclation mode, then taking the Cobra is actually a liability.

yakface wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
I have been following those. They are actually the very things that sparked my interest.

The Cobra, for example, suffers from the fact that for only 225 more points you get to fire 4 Strength D blasts a turn (and 2 at a different target), has an amazing LOS (for being so tall) and can move so much further, make stomp attacks in CC, etc. So the Corbra is stuck in that limbo world where if you play someone who doesn't have D-weapons, then your Cobra is going to seem like a god, but if you're playing people in full-on Esclation mode, then taking the Cobra is actually a liability.

I understand this. I like the model for the Cobra enough to run it regardless of disadvantages. Also, I really like that its cannon ignores void shields, however niche that ability might be.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

I understand this. I like the model for the Cobra enough to run it regardless of disadvantages. Also, I really like that its cannon ignores void shields, however niche that ability might be.

it is definitely a nice ability, especially considering now that every army can buy void shield generators.

Why did you stop playing? (If you don't mind me asking.)

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Why did you stop playing? (If you don't mind me asking.)

This:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/510653.page#6265550


Or in a nutshell, a big part of my enjoyment of the hobby was to own and digest every morsel of rules for 40k. I feel that GW is making it so insanely expensive to own all the rules now, that they've finally broken me from collecting every rules supplement, and that kills so much of my enjoyment that I don't even really have the will to even play at the moment.

I'm certainly not 'done for good' though...just waiting to see how this whole 'glut' of rules eventually pans out. In the past, when GW when nutty on adding tons of rules (3rd edition 'chapter approved' stuff), when they eventually switched to a new edition, they couldn't find the time to keep updating what they had made and ended up dropping all the ancillary stuff (like Kroot Mercs, etc).

Now that they've switched heavily to digital formats, they could theoretically just update some of these codex supplements digitally when a new edition comes out, but even doing that is going to leave all the print-codex owners out in the cold.

So I dunno...it seems like the path they're on with the rules is towards an implosion of just too much STUFF for people to even comprehend, let alone think about owning. If they continue this way, then I might close up shop on playing 40k for good.

Really about the only thing that could restore my faith completely would be some other company buying out GW, which you never know, may happen someday.

Very sorry to hear that. I know how you feel in regards to all the "Stuff." I am just easing my way back into the game after a long break that started back in 4th. I am finding it difficult to learn all the new rules for 6th, let alone all the new dataslates and supplements that are popping up ever so rapidly. Not only has it been a daunting task for my brain, but for my wallet too!

 yakface wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Why did you stop playing? (If you don't mind me asking.)

This:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/510653.page#6265550


Or in a nutshell, a big part of my enjoyment of the hobby was to own and digest every morsel of rules for 40k. I feel that GW is making it so insanely expensive to own all the rules now, that they've finally broken me from collecting every rules supplement, and that kills so much of my enjoyment that I don't even really have the will to even play at the moment.

I'm certainly not 'done for good' though...just waiting to see how this whole 'glut' of rules eventually pans out. In the past, when GW when nutty on adding tons of rules (3rd edition 'chapter approved' stuff), when they eventually switched to a new edition, they couldn't find the time to keep updating what they had made and ended up dropping all the ancillary stuff (like Kroot Mercs, etc).

Now that they've switched heavily to digital formats, they could theoretically just update some of these codex supplements digitally when a new edition comes out, but even doing that is going to leave all the print-codex owners out in the cold.

So I dunno...it seems like the path they're on with the rules is towards an implosion of just too much STUFF for people to even comprehend, let alone think about owning. If they continue this way, then I might close up shop on playing 40k for good.

Really about the only thing that could restore my faith completely would be some other company buying out GW, which you never know, may happen someday.

Unfortunately, I predict this will only get worse, Yakface.

I already see what direction GW is taking their business in. The 3D printing revolution came up faster than anyone thought. They are scrambling to turn themselves into Wizards of the Coast and 40k into Dungeons and Dragons. The writing is already on the wall. Selling miniatures won't be a sustainable business for much longer. It's already started with Shapeways. People will have high quality 3D printers in their homes inside of three years. Selling rules, however, as evidenced by Dungeons and Dragons and numerous other role playing games for many years, will be viable for a long time yet, especially if they can get the means of distribution under control (ie selling direct to consumer via iPad, etc)

I honestly don't think this will change anytime soon. GW is enjoying its last bits of profit from "hardware" sales and is now switching over to selling "software" - that is, their IP - which, if we're honest, has been their business for a long time now.

I'm going to PM you.

To chip in my two cents I will say that while the game may be moving along at a rapid pace, I've never had more fun playing it. I suppose it's almost all about player group and this is a solid group.

 Thokt wrote:
To chip in my two cents I will say that while the game may be moving along at a rapid pace, I've never had more fun playing it. I suppose it's almost all about player group and this is a solid group.

This. I Have only been to one event with you guys, but it was probably the best time I have ever had playing 40k.

I posted in the pick up threads but figured I would here too. Im might be looking for a game at GE in Pasadena on Thursday afternoon around 2 or 3 till we drop. Let me know if anyone is interested.

I can't make it to this next one, but encourage everyone who can to go! It's always a great time. I've got a feature starting up next week that rolls through weekends. Booooooo.

Hey guys, i can finally make it to one of these events! ( baring anything that pops up last minute..)

Anyways aside from regular games i was wondering if anyone would be interested in playing a 2V2 game vs me and extremefreak17??
I still don't have my army completed that i'm working on but i should have enough to scrap something fun together.

If anyone is interested who has a buddy coming or knows others coming let me know so we can come up with some rules ahead of time!

If not no worries, and i look forward to seeing you guys on the 8th.

Connor and I will be down to 2 v 2, and I am sure most folks will be to. Can't wait to get to play next weekend!

How do you guys normally house rule the interaction between allies in a 2v2? Just wondering about things like psychic powers, chacters joining allied squads, warlord traits, and thigs like that.

Normally we consider them friendly units but not allies. You can cast psychic spells on your team mate, but can't join their squads or get in their transports. If the teams have the same number of people on them everyone gets a warlord and traits.

Great, thanks!

What point value would you guys like to play at?

Somewhere between 1000 and 1500 per player, so 2000/3000 per team. Much larger than that and the turns just start taking to long for me.

Yea I agree. I'm good for 1250 per player or something like that?

I plan on being there. I'll bring some 40k stuff. Will also probably be playing Epic. If anyone is interested in a demo game, let me know. I have loaners.

@ the goat man.

Hey do you guys want to do forgeworld units as well?

As long as you can show me the rules for the unit I am pretty cool with most things. If you want to bring like Super Heavies and gak I might be less inclined, but I not completely unwilling

No no no I hate super heavies. And I hate D weapons haha. I just ment forgeworld chapter tactics. I don't actually own any forgeworld units.


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And even that is just if I decided to play marines. I'm not sure what I'm bringing yet I just wanted to see what you guys were cool with

Pumped up for tomorrow!