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2013/02/28 06:24:50
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) 3rd Character funded!
If you havent heard Skullgirls is running an Indiegogo campaign to create more characters for its fighting game. Its already successfully funded in one day and then some, and is now working towards getting more characters created including the anticipated first male character
However while there has been a great many supporters, many people balked at the original goal of $150,000 to create just one character. Lab Zero Games tries to explain the process.
Interesting read I suppose from someone on the inside
Iron Galaxy Studios has worked closely with Capcom, and is responsible for the upcoming Darkstalkers Resurrection, Marvel vs. Capcom Origins, and others. It knows fighting games. Additionally, the company is building a proper version of the cult hit, Divekick. When I tossed the $150,000 number at Iron Galaxy CEO Dave Lang, here’s what he told me:
“I don’t have any particular insights as to how the Skullgirls team works, but I can tell you if we were doing a similar game there would be two major time sinks: new frames of animation and time required to balance the game.
The frames of animation are very expensive for a couple reasons, but at the end of the day it gets down to volume. Say you need 500 frames of animation per character (arbitrary number, I don’t know what Skullgirls frame count per character is), you actually should budget for 1,000 frames of animation in time and materials because for a 2D fighter the animation is the gameplay, and you will need to rework a lot of the sprites to have the game play the way you want. If you were to outsource that many frames of animation you’d pay $20-$30/hour for that, and at that resolution/complexity each person working on them would get around 4 frames of animation done per day (these are highly involved sprites). That puts the cost of just getting the sprites done anywhere from 40k-60k USD. Keep in mind this will take time, and while you’re waiting for the art to get back from the outsourcer you’re still paying salaries, rent, internet, insurance, etc., so sunk cost for just the art itself is probably gonna net out to 90k USD.
Once you get everything in the game, now you need to balance it. And balancing a fighting game is a “n-squared” problem, meaning each additional fighter you add makes balancing the game much more difficult (and therefore take more time/people) to balance. This takes a long time, even with Skullgirls (now) 9 characters. Every studio has their own cost structure but you can safely assume each individual game developer costs their studio around 10k per month (including rent, insurance, etc.). This number will vary wildly for any given dev, but in the US it’s as good a rule of thumb as you can hope for. Sounds like the Skullgirls crew runs a pretty lean ship so let’s chop that to 7,500k/month for them. If there are 5 people on the team (not sure if this is right, but I can’t imagine doing this with less people so let’s call it 5), that’s 37.5k/month for them. If your budget is 150k, that gives them about 2 months to balance the game, which isn’t really a lot of time.
We haven’t even touched on audio, UI, etc. All that stuff adds up. This is why I think 150k is a bargain.”
That sounds reasonable. Hand-drawn sprite work, especially to the detail that is featured in Skullgirls, requires a lot of time, effort, and skill to create.
And for what it's worth, Skullgirls is a very cool fighter that is seriously underexposed.
2013/02/28 11:54:15
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
Wouldn't be suprised. The amount of testing that goes into a fighting game will probably take hundreds if not more hours of just testing even at minimum wage, you're still looking at 10k just for the testing.
Add in art, sound, programming and actually designing a move list and it should rack up quite quickly.
2013/02/28 15:40:11
Subject: Re:Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
Btw for those who havent checked the indiegogo heres the characters they're funding
Squiggly (already funded)
Big Band $375k (things are gonna get a little loud!)
$600k will have a 3rd character that will be voted on. Unfortunately they have a lot of characters! (they say that all of these characters are planned for up to 3 games or something like that)
I'm between Stanley and Brain Drain, though theres still many more characters to be revealed!
2013/03/01 19:21:24
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Why would there be a male character in a game called Skullgirls?
Isn't the plot centered around a bunch of women trying to get some sort of powerful artifact that works only on women?
Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't have supporting characters being playable. Skullgirls has a lovely artstyle, and it would be a shame to limit it to only certain characters and playstyles for such an arbitrary reason.
2013/05/24 21:04:25
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
I'd vote for Marie or Hive. They look like their gameplay might be a lot of fun. Hope they release it on steam pretty soon.
Poor ignorant guardsmen, it be but one of many of the great miracles of the Emperor! The Emperor is magic, like Harry Potter, but more magic! A most real and true SPACE WIZARD! And for the last time... I'm not a space plumber.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Why would there be a male character in a game called Skullgirls?
Isn't the plot centered around a bunch of women trying to get some sort of powerful artifact that works only on women?
Technically theres only One Skullgirl
And theres nothing stopping male characters from fighting, its not an official tournament like in KoF or SF. Whats wrong with people who just want to fight!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/02 15:36:09
2013/03/02 16:59:59
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2013/03/02 20:51:24
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Why would there be a male character in a game called Skullgirls?
Isn't the plot centered around a bunch of women trying to get some sort of powerful artifact that works only on women?
Technically theres only One Skullgirl
And theres nothing stopping male characters from fighting, its not an official tournament like in KoF or SF. Whats wrong with people who just want to fight!
Fair enough.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2013/03/02 21:06:54
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
It's especially worth noting that the employees they do have aren't exactly getting paid a whole lot either, and they'll probably end up working incredibly hard for what they are getting paid. This isn't like those big name triple-A games where the majority of the money goes to funding lavish advertising campaigns, this is money that goes into allowing people to barely scrape by to even have a chance to put together a quality product that they really, truly care about.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/02 21:33:26
2013/03/03 12:58:12
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo)
Its at $500k, a big push will get to the next goal
Info/speculation has been given on some of the 3rd character candidates
Go Stanley!
Spoiler:
As the younger princess of the Canopy Kingdom, Umbrella is drawn into the current conflict by a familiar presence. Umbrella has grown up sheltered from the full circumstances surrounding her mother’s death. What effect will the truth have on her?
Playstyle Speculation
Umbrella’s living weapon, Hungern, has an insatiable appetite. Choose between using Hungern to end special moves for extra advantage throughout the match, or let his hunger build up for more damage later!
The current Skullgirl who rose from the ashes of the Grand War. Her country of Rommelgrad fell into anarchy, becoming part of the growing No Man’s Land. As she focuses her wrath on those who prey on its victims, the full extent of her power remains unknown…
Playstyle Speculation
Summons undead minions, and can vacuuming up the corpses of enemies to refill her own life.
Lorenzo Medici’s right hand hitwoman who takes thorough enjoyment in her work. Little is known about her outside the carnage left in her wake, which has spanned decades without slowing down. Only two of her targets have walked away so far, which she plans to rectify soon.
Playstyle Speculation
Grenade launchers, tear gas, hidden knives, and giant screen-filling doilies – Black Dahlia isn’t She ain’t goin’ down without a fight… or two!
A strict but caring teacher at St. Theresa High School. When one of her students goes missing under violent circumstances, she takes it upon herself to find her. Most would call such an act reckless, but she seems to know an awful lot about fighting, and old instincts die hard.
Playstyle Speculation
As a teacher, she prides herself on knowing all there is to know about fighting games, and adopts techniques from many of them while adding her own special flair.
A former crime fighter pulled into the web of intrigue woven around the latest Skullgirl. Deciding it was too much for her stuffy civilian identity, she takes up her Living Weapon, the Pazuzu Whip, and dons her alter ego to enter the fray once more.
Playstyle Speculation
She doesn’t just want to win, she wants to be in control. Lick those boots!
As popular figures in nationwide folktales, a children’s television adaptation of Annie and Sagan’s adventures was inevitable. The show’s success lies in its pair of live action hosts, who are as convincing as their cartoon counterparts. Though what the public learns about the real Annie might surprise them.
Playstyle Speculation
Fiercer than she looks, braver than anyone, it’s ANNIE OF THE STARS! Now where’s my cigarette?
The Dagonian scientist prefers to fade into the background at work, not that he is always successful. Following the surprise attack on Lab 8, it becomes clear the ASG needs all the manpower it can afford. Stanley originally helped develop weapons in the now defunct Lab 4. He brings them in to fight alongside the soldiers, as quiet scientists are wont to do.
Playstyle Speculation
Uses a variety of shark-themed attacks and high-tech weaponry. Shark Dive! Shark Knuckle! Science Upper! FEEDING FRENZY! Be sure to check your work.
A flight-capable ASG Soldier implanted with the amorphous Synthetic Parasite, Beezle Bomb. A younger member, she can be brash and irritable at times but has the team’s best interests at heart. After all, they are the family she always wanted.
Playstyle Speculation
Lots of crazy wall dives and weird movement options, stingers. Heavily rushdown-based pixie.
Leduc is a young ASG soldier who joined Lab 8 after the war. Having yet to learn the details of Lab 0′s transgressions, his idealistic image of their organization will be challenged soon. The electricity his body channels is generated by his Synthetic Parasite, the Taranis Generator, which he can use to disable or destroy targets.
Playstyle Speculation
He electrifies you with his electricity and his angst. Wahoo.
The mother figure of Lab 8, she was disfigured during the war before agreeing to be grafted with the Synthetic Parasite, Salamander Shell. Able to squeeze through tight spaces, secrete acid, and wield drills, she is brilliant at infiltration and sabotage. However, the nature of her abilities makes them cruel to use on other human beings. She avoids confrontation when possible, but if pushed to fight she is the scariest member of her team.
Playstyle Speculation
Ranged, poison and area-damage strategic play. Toxic to the touch during her Lv3.
Lab 7′s only successful psychic experiment, most of Brain Drain’s body was destroyed in the disaster which consumed the facility. Soured by the experience and towards human reliability, he has grown into the ruthless and controlling second in command of Lab 0. As far as he is concerned, anybody who falls short of his expectations is to be replaced.
Playstyle Speculation
Stop hitting yourself! No, wait, keep going.
A figment of Peacock’s warped imagination made flesh… or at least something close. One of the unexpected results from Patricia’s use of the Avery Unit, Andy and his buddies are based on her favorite cartoons. What they do when their creator is not around remains a mystery.
Playstyle Speculation
Close-range fighter with some tricks up his…gloves? Punches, dodges, more punches, anvil-to-the-face.
A Dragon Empire migrant showcasing her acrobatic skills at the Cirque des Cartes. The pair of birds perched on her head are an enigma, summoned by a lucky mistake in geomancy. As much as her family in Canopolis depends on her income, she worries what she and her friend will be asked to do in the long run..
Playstyle Speculation
Agility-based moveset including wall jumps/dives, acrobatics, and trap help from her phoenixes. Possibly a command throw combo setup.
A bard who can turn others into musical instruments, Taliesin’s role includes punishing members of the Cirque des Cartes who would defy their contract. He keeps a collection of his favorite victims, eliciting jealousy from his accomplice and Remote Parasite, Muse. Taliesin’s cursed touch stems from trading his hands for her arms.
Playstyle Speculation
Not quite a regular 2D puppet character, because he feels his Muse’s pain. A bit more like the puppet characters from Naruto.
Hubrecht is a good-natured strongman who does not realize the Cirque des Cartes doubles as a talent pool for the mob. Some would call him childishly naive while others say he was just born in the wrong world. But most agree that makes little difference, as even a friendly hug from the big guy earns him his nickname of “Hertz.”
The domineering beast tamer at the Cirque des Cartes, she commands a wide range of creatures including several outlandish specimens. She derives no pleasure from her cruelty as it is simply in her cold nature to control others by any means necessary. The troupe ultimately answers to Regina, not the ringleader.
Playstyle Speculation
Cygers, zombions, spirit bears? Or just regular animals?
The fiercely competitive magician hoping to dethrone Cerebella’s current popularity to replace her, both at the circus and as an agent of the Medicis. Beatrix wears the Cloak of Damocles, allowing her to carry and apply an impossible array of props with some risk. She combines its genuinely supernatural properties with old fashioned sleight of hand for attacks nobody can see coming.
Playstyle Speculation
Now you see her, now she’s pinning you down with a barrage of knives before sawing you in half.
The Medicis’ outwardly refined mechanical henchman piloted by the foul-mouthed Dagonian engineer, Tom. Ottomo may comical, but he is nevertheless a lethal clutter of advanced weapons used to take care of family business.
Playstyle Speculation
Tea time!
A celebrity diva known for her charity, in reality she uses her Parasite Sekhmet to feed off her blood drives and preserve her own beauty. When the Medicis found out, they used it as leverage for business and to call upon her vampiric abilities. Now forced into the pursuit for the Skull Heart, an ancient ambition stirs… one that Samson and Leviathan are all too familiar with.
Playstyle Speculation
The ultimate attack-from-disadvantage character. Because of her kinship with her parasite, Eliza can control her own blood. Each time she is hit, she bleeds MK-style, and the blood stays on the stage, and certain specials and supers can then use it.
A Dagonian from the Dragon Empire who moved his business to the Canopy Kingdom. Outside helping Ms. Fortune get back on her feet, he was hoping to sit back and run a regular business. But with the whole community in a crisis, it might be time to dust off his old skills and teach some young punks some manners.
Playstyle Speculation
He’s a freakin’ fish with cleavers! Rushdown with a side of Player 2, chop chop.
One of the River King’s daughters who works as a waitress at Yu-Wan’s restaurant. She and her sisters were kidnapped under orders by the growingly desperate and ruthless Lorenzo Medici. With a lot of courage and a little luck, Minette just might save herself from a ghastly fate.
Playstyle Speculation
Cute, clumsy waitress. Movements similar to Roll – not sure which one.
New characters without speculation
Spoiler:
Restless in his retirement, Beowulf begins seeking out new challenges with his legendary chair, The Hurting.
Here’s Scythana. She’s a half-gigan ex-convict.
'
And here’s the 24th Mysterious Character, Roxie! She’s the Black Egrets’ ace mechanic.
This is Juju – she’s the Black Egrets’ sniper, and there’s a 1% chance you’ve heard Parasoul call her by name in the game.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/22 05:10:02
2013/03/22 05:26:18
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!
I'd totally vote for Black Dahlia. Eliza seems to have a very interesting playstyle, but it would be hard to develop for. Beowulf looks kind of cool. I'm all for a character that brings on the pain with a folding chair.
2013/03/22 19:30:05
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!
Now I'm not sure if I want to vote for Stanley the Science Shark, or Panzerfaust. They both look so cool!
I love how he has a mini tank on his fist.
Who ever said it wasnt just a regular tank?
Kilkrazy wrote: We moderators often make unwise decisions on Friday afternoons.
kestril wrote: Page 1: New guard topic
Page 2: FW debate
Page 3: Ailaros and Peregrine fight. TO THE DEATH
I swear I think those two have a hate-crush on each other sometimes.
2013/03/25 13:41:15
Subject: Re:Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!
Oh wow its moving pretty fast, only 20k away from 600k
More character reveals
Spoiler:
Adam is a Jack-of-all-trades elite soldier of the Black Egrets. Unfortunately, this does not help him stand out among the team. Being good with kids as well, he is also often tasked with babysitting Umbrella. Will he ever get the chance to prove himself to Princess Parasoul?
Playstyle Speculation
Adam would represent the Black Egret soldiers as a playable group. Their lifebar would be divided into thirds, with each third representing an Egret. Whenever a segment is depleted, that character faints and the next one joins the fray. The first two are faceless Egrets, and the last is Adam himself.
Since in reality Adam is a talented soldier, he would have access to moves that the other two Egrets lack, giving the group some last-ditch power. However, the group would also have techniques that require more soldiers alive, such as sacrificing one of them for a damage or a buff to the next one, or ganging up on the opponent.
In addition to attacks similar to what the Egrets do while assisting Parasoul, Adam is skilled at a variety of other military weapons ranging from close combat to assorted guns, grenades, and bazookas. He might have some sort of ammo meter that he’d need to reload for certain attacks.
The Black Egrets' gung-ho communications officer. While her main job is keeping her team connected, Roxie has continually added features to her field telephone equipment and they are now classified as a weapons system. Though not the kind of information warfare Molly had in mind, she handles the array with her usual finesse and enthusiasm.
Playstyle Speculation
Many of her attacks would be phone themed. Phone rotaries, bells, wires, needles, cans on strings- anything phone themed is fair game. She’d use an office chair and assorted machinery to move around. Despite the image in the lineup, she may pilot Graham-o-Tron, a phone-themed mecha instead. Maybe she can dial-a-combo... interpret that as you will, the pun had to be made.
To reflect her profession, Molly might have the ability to place a series of relay points on the screen, sending an electrical pulse through them. If she switches the points while the pulse is en route, she can keep it going through a series of connections.
In the spirit of switchboard operators assisting soldiers on the field, she could have supportive abilities that give her team bonuses when she’s not on point. For example, she might allow her teammates to gain more meter, heal red life faster, or experience shorter hitstun or blockstun in specific cases. She may even have attacks and supers that can only be performed when she’s not the active character like an air strike, medevac, supply drop, or a damage boost during the point character’s supers.
2013/03/25 18:46:50
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!
12k now. Another character, Isaac, has been revealed.
Isaac is an archaeologist who has made unsettling discoveries below the Canopy Kingdom, only to have the evidence buried. Now hunted, Isaac has been literally buying time using shards of a unique type of Theonite he discovered in his search. The one other person who knows about the dig has been wrongfully imprisoned, but learning the truth would put her in greater danger.
Playstyle Speculation
Isaac’s time travel mechanics aren’t your standard slow/stop fare. For example, a double of Isaac could instantly appear from the future for a lunging punch, and a countdown begins above Isaac’s head. When the countdown reaches zero, Isaac pauses and prepares to travel back in time to deliver the punch. If he is hit during the preparation, the opponent regains any damage they took from the punch since it never happened. If his double is hit during the punch, Isaac himself takes damage when the countdown reaches zero.
Isaac may also have other time related attacks, such as the ability to convert successful special attacks into supers in the past after noticing they connected. He could possibly manipulate the timer, namely knocking off a few seconds to hasten that time-out.
Gameplay Inspiration
Doc Brown (Back to the Future series), Professor Badass (Kevin Stewart), Indiana Jones (Indiana Jones series), Neinhalt Sieger (Samurai Shodown series), Iron Man (Marvel vs. Capcom series), Dio Brando (Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure), Sakuya (Tohou series), Makoto (Street Fighter III: Third Strike), one-frame DHCs (Marvel vs. Capcom 2), Shadow (One Must Fall 2097)
Iron Warriors 442nd Grand Battalion: 10k points
2013/03/25 18:55:31
Subject: Re:Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!
1) Hate how they have male characters in this game for download. While yes, there is nothing preventing them from fighting, I honestly just liked how it was nothing but females in the game. Painwheel had all of my masculine needs XD
2) Black Dahlia or Roxie are the only real choices on this list, though I wouldn't say no to Venus (A Goddess of the Trinity, her gut literally rips open to expose three mouth stalk things).
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2013/03/25 19:26:37
Subject: Re:Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!
Slarg232 wrote: 1) Hate how they have male characters in this game for download. While yes, there is nothing preventing them from fighting, I honestly just liked how it was nothing but females in the game. Painwheel had all of my masculine needs XD
I by no means am saying you're wrong but in an age where many big time developers are completely ignoring fan feedback, having some companies who actually listen is refreshing no?
2013/03/25 19:28:04
Subject: Re:Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!
Slarg232 wrote: 1) Hate how they have male characters in this game for download. While yes, there is nothing preventing them from fighting, I honestly just liked how it was nothing but females in the game. Painwheel had all of my masculine needs XD
I by no means am saying you're wrong but in an age where many big time developers are completely ignoring fan feedback, having some companies who actually listen is refreshing no?
Oh don't get me wrong, I love it.
I just hate how the rest of the fanbase doesn't think the same as me
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2013/03/26 00:09:10
Subject: Does making a whole new character cost $150,000? (Skullgirls Indiegogo) Big Band funded!