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Hi folks.

So, new daemon book, my nurgling bases no longer have eternal warrior. So, I need to figure out exactly how instant death will work.

Say, they take 2 hit's and wound's from a power fist, which is strength 8 vs their tougness 3. Does that mean one base takes both attacks, but is instantly killed in the process, or 2 bases take one each, and both are instantly killed?

Also, what about the double wound's to templates weakness of swarms? IF the nurgling's get hit by a vindicator shell, and 2 of them are hit and wounded, does this mean that it's doubled, and 4 whole bases die from 2 hits? What would be the equivalent of 16 wound's, from 2 hit's on a scattered blast? o.o

First, calculate the number of total wounds, and then distribute.
Double this from a blast weapon

Power fist: 4 wounds = four instant deaths = four bases removed.

Blast weapon: 4 Bases hit with a blast = 4 wounds = 8 wounds (doubled for blast) = Four bases removed.
(^ If they're 2 wounds each ^)

If it's an insta-kill blast weapon. They take double the instant kill wounds.

Instant Kill Blast: 4 bases hit = 8 wounds = 8 instant kills = 8 bases removed.


Edit: This is my understanding, if anyone can confirm or deny this, it would be great.

Rustgob wrote:
First, calculate the number of total wounds, and then distribute.
Double this from a blast weapon

Power fist: 4 wounds = four instant deaths = four bases removed.

Blast weapon: 4 Bases hit with a blast = 4 wounds = 8 wounds (doubled for blast) = Four bases removed.
(^ If they're 2 wounds each ^)

If it's an insta-kill blast weapon. They take double the instant kill wounds.

Instant Kill Blast: 4 bases hit = 8 wounds = 8 instant kills = 8 bases removed.


Edit: This is my understanding, if anyone can confirm or deny this, it would be great.

This makes me sad :( Any template of strength 6 or higher, is gonna take off the whole squad now most times. Bleeeh,

Evileyes wrote:

Rustgob wrote:
First, calculate the number of total wounds, and then distribute.
Double this from a blast weapon

Power fist: 4 wounds = four instant deaths = four bases removed.

Blast weapon: 4 Bases hit with a blast = 4 wounds = 8 wounds (doubled for blast) = Four bases removed.
(^ If they're 2 wounds each ^)

If it's an insta-kill blast weapon. They take double the instant kill wounds.

Instant Kill Blast: 4 bases hit = 8 wounds = 8 instant kills = 8 bases removed.


Edit: This is my understanding, if anyone can confirm or deny this, it would be great.

This makes me sad :( Any template of strength 6 or higher, is gonna take off the whole squad now most times. Bleeeh,

Well, just think; that template that was used against the Nurglings wasn't used on anything more valuable. Personally, I would never use a vindicator against nurglings (for example) unless I really needed to. It's overkill and the power could be used elsewhere. Flamers however...

There is a whole thread about this just down the list. It is largely disputed about this. Due to the wording of Swarm USR many people agree that the wound must be allocated before they are doubled and therefor you would only loose the number of bases equal to the number of wounds rolled.

This thread is just a little bit further down. Additionally a similarthread was just locked.

Whoops, sorry I missed that then. I got the answer I needed anyway, and if they change it, i'm sure they will FAQ

Thanks all

the arguement that, unlike other editions, and contrary to estrablished rules for wound allocation, that you dont suffer full casualties from ID templates is false,

extra wounds are not wasted,
you cannot allocated multiple wounds at once,
and not to a model that can only take one ID wound

you will lose two bases for one template/blast ID wound

easysauce wrote:
the arguement that, unlike other editions, and contrary to estrablished rules for wound allocation, that you dont suffer full casualties from ID templates is false,

extra wounds are not wasted,
you cannot allocated multiple wounds at once,
and not to a model that can only take one ID wound

you will lose two bases for one template/blast ID wound

However, can you pull an allocated wound back off a model and put it on another model? I think that is the basis for the other side's argument.

You have 1 Str 8 blast (or template) wound, you allocate it to a Toughness 4 model with the swarm rule, the model fails the save so the unsaved wound doubles so now you have 2 unsaved wounds allocated to the model but the first wound ID the model, can you pull the second wound back? If you pull it back, is it still unsaved? What if the next closest model is Toughness 5? What if the next model has a better save?

the 2nd wound has not been through the allocation process, so it has not been allocated in the first place,
that is what I mean by you assuming the 2nd wound is allocated to the same model as the first, this cannot be, you cannot allocate two wounds at once, the 2nd wound from swarms is caused, and must be allocated as normal.
nor can you allocate more wounds to a model then it actually has

no need to "un" allocate it at all,

no need to put it back into the wound pool either, this is a new unsaved wound, all wounds go into pool before allocation

even in mixed saves, wounds are allocated one at a time, and you cannot put more wounds on a model then it has on its profile,

the 2nd wound must follow the normal allocation that all wounds follow, we cannot assume that a wound that has NOT been through the allocation process is allocated to a particular model, let alone assume we are allowed to allocate 2 wounds at once, or assume that we are allowed to allocate more wounds to a model then it has on its profile.

Perhaps I'm failing to explain it well enough. In my defense, it's not my argument, simply the one I have had explained to me.

Let me try again, with a good example, but this may not be exactly what the argument is.

Lets say there is a string of models conga-line-style like this.

XXXXXXXOX E

Where E is the enemy, X models are T4 swarm models with 3 wounds each and a 5+ save and O is a T5 model with 1 wound and a 2+ save. E fires a Str 8 AP- blast but do to bad luck, it only hits the closest X model. All models are in range, but only 1 is hit. What happens now?

I think that would be 1 wound, which then must be allocated to the closest model, an X (T4, W3, 5+). If it fails it's save, then that is an unsaved wound on the closest model, however X is vulnerable to blasts. What happens now?

I have not heard anyone argue that the closest model would be dead, since the blast is double it's toughness. However, it should double the unsaved wounds, does it take the 2nd unsaved wound with it when it dies or does that second unsaved wound hit the T5 2+ save guy. Does he get a save? (Can you save on a wound twice?) Does it just hit another of the swarm models?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/510418.page
"Let's not have a discussion in two threads at once."

The big thread about it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/390/497144.page#5335886

Kangodo wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/510418.page
"Let's not have a discussion in two threads at once."

The big thread about it is: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/390/497144.page#5335886

Didn't realize there was a big one going on about this (again), but I didn't search either. I have copied/pasted my post to the other thread. (Which is at 14 pages, in my experience threads that long have devolved to shouting matches with neither side listening, so I doubt I will participate.)

Thanks for letting us know.