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HQ:

Chaos Lord-
MoS, VotLW, Sigil of Corruption, Lightning Claw, Melta bombs, Bike

Elites:
3 Terminators with 3 Combi Melta & Power Sword

TROOP:
Noise Marines x10
x2 Blastmaster, x3 sonic Weapons, Icon of Excess, Power sword on Champ
Rhino

Noise Marines x10
x2 Blastmaster, x3 Sonic Weapons, Icon of Excess, Power sword on Champ
Rhino

Noise Marines x9
BP & CS, Icon of Excess, Doom siren & Power sword on Champ
Rhino W/Dirge Caster

FAST:
Heldrake w/bale

Bikers x3, 2 melta guns

Raptors x6, MoS, 2 melta guns, x2 Lightning Claw on Champ

HEAVY:

Vindicator

was thinking of dropping the Power Sword on the 2 champs that would save 30 pts. to use elsewhere
I was also thinking I should some plasma Guns too.

I'd keep the PS's. Remeber you HAVE to accept challenges, so those PS's will come in handy.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
I'd keep the PS's. Remeber you HAVE to accept challenges, so those PS's will come in handy.

The thing of it is, just because they have high initiative doesn't mean that you need to kit them out for close combat. The biggest benefit that noise marines have in my opinion is that they are the cheapest fearless troop choice in the codex and they have access to blast masters and sonic blasters. So the main job for them will be shooting, if they are getting into close combat you're already in trouble. Spending points on making them better at combat will not help the problem.

My other suggestion would be to turn the raptors into more bikers. Beef up the lord's friends to keep the lord safe. If you cut the power weapons from two of the noise marine squads you can get another blast master to put into the squad that's currently lacking one.

You can also try to fit in fortifications into the list. I think the benefit of that is that you can sit behind a line and shoot right through it with the sonic weapons while making it more difficult for the enemy to get to you.

On the large noise marine squads I am not sure I would go 2 Blastmasters and sonic blasters. I like my blastmasters to shoot from far away whereas the sonic blasters are more up close and personal.

I am running a noise marine list as well, but am going the route of 5 man squads with 1 blastmaster.. Granted, I am giving up feel no pain, but I am adding multiple scoring units that can sit on the back edge with no worry of running away.

I do run one bigger squad of sonic blasters. This is where I add my icon of excess and doom siren.

Also, and this has been said to death on this board, 1 vindicator is a target. You should really try to squeeze in one more or switch to havocs.

What is the role of the terminators? They're aren't enough of them to be truly scary. I am guessing they are there to deep strike in and kill one vehicle before they get shot to death?

Just some random thoughts. And, think about a defense line for this list. You could put it as far up as you want. Sonic weapons ignore cover. So your opponent will think he is quite safe behind your ADL only to discover it only provides cover one way!!

Yeah, a ADL will give you additional AA if youg et a gun... or for 50pts cover. And I agree... two heavies so one will live long enough to do the job. I actually prefer the Las-sponson Pred. Get two of those and you could switch up the melta guns on the bikes to Plasma.

Personally, as cool as the new models look, I don't like the Raptors for what your getting for 174pts. I mean, compair them to your Bikers for nearly half the cost...or get a second HellTurkey. Either will be better.

See how you loaded out your Lord? If your going to give Champs gear, that is what you should give them... a LC and Melta bomb or go naked.

I also have to agree with droping troops in Rhinos down to 5-6 guys with a single Blastmaster and otherwise naked. If they are on foot, a Icon and 10 man with 2 Blastmasters works fine. If you want, kit them out with Blasters for anything that DSs to close to them. Put the Dirge Casters on the two heavy support vehicles in your rear and run your attacking Rhinos with Combi-meltas.
If you do this suggestion, you will have 4 attacking troop choices in Rhinos and a blob of 10 holding your rear for 5 Troop choices for nearly the same points vs 3 troop choices. Just saying...

If you are considering a 2nd Bike squad or more bikes, have you considered a Sorc on a Bike? If you make him lvl 3, you get 3 powers. I will note Biomancy is a beast and the Slannesh powers have the only buff power. Since the Chaos powers are 33% chance for each power on a roll, going 1-2 rolls on the Slannesh table and then the rest on Biomancy might be the way to do it. I will note I do like the Primary Slannesh power and not the Biomancy if you prefer a shooty/attack power over buffs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord - 150pts
MoS, VotLW, Sigil of Corruption, Lightning Claw, Melta bombs, Bike

Sorc - 145pts
MoS, +2 Mastery Levels, Bike

5x Noise Marines - 160pts
Blastmaster, Rhino

5x Noise Marines - 160pts
Blastmaster, Rhino

5x Noise Marines - 160pts
Blastmaster, Rhino

10x Noise Marines - 295pts
2x Blastmasters, Doom Siren, IoE, 5x Blasters

Heldrake - 170pts
Baleflamer

Heldrake - 170pts
Baleflamer

3x Bikers - 100pts
2x Plasma guns

Predator - 120pts
Dirge Caster, LC Sponsons

Predator - 120pts
Dirge Caster, LC Sponsons

1750pts

I had to lie and cut it down to 4 troop choices so I could fit on the Sorc and double Pred/Turkeys. I also had to cut out the combi-meltas on the Rhinos, LC+MB for the Bike Champ. It was funny, I was at 1750 before I added in the Preds and went, 'Oh crap, now I have to ditch 240pts of stuff.' IF I were to go to 1850pts for this list, I would add two bikers (and give them all MoS), 3x Combi-Meltas for the Rhinos, and Bike Champ gear. Giving them a IoE would be tempting, but it is hella expensive. Could skip out on the Combi-Meltas and the MB on the bike Champ (the Lord would have the bomb I guess). Would be a heck of a unit though, but that is what Deathstars are, something that can smash anything.

Many thanks for the list BlkTom. I like it.

What is a good way to incorporate Lucius? Maybe with Terminators in a Landraider. I have 4 JUSTAERIN TERMINATORS that I put 4 combi plasma or melta . 3 power sword and one LC.

Should I put a LC on the Doom Siren Champ?

Not sure why he decided to attach a Doom Siren to that squad but I would invest in a LC or PW.

Really I have come to the conclusion to just run a basic lord or a lord on mount for the outflank. I was running a similar list except Nurgle; Lord on bike, sorcerer level 3 and 5 bikers. It is so many points that it just wasn't worth it to me. For the 395 points you could run a basic lord, or a lord on steed, add another troop and an ADL

From your original list, I'd say the bike squad needs to be sized up, especiallly if that's where your lord will hide out. Try reaching 6 bikers with an icon of excess. This also grants FNP to your Lord, remember..!

T free the points, I'd drop a rhino from one of the NM squads and icon of excess seems better put on your bikers squad.

I'd remove the power weapons from the NM aspiring champions too, as they should avoid combat. Fearless shooty, ignore cover save troops is what they are. Use your terminators, raptors and bikers for assault.

So a better option maybe:

Doom Siren w/ LC, 7x Blasters, Rhino w/Dirge Caster

Are there any good Tactic Articles on noise marines I should read?

 BlkTom wrote:

Predator - 120pts
Dirge Caster, LC Sponsons

Predator - 120pts
Dirge Caster, LC Sponsons

Not understanding the use of Dirge casters on the preds. Waste of points.

I have had a lot of success running full kitted 10 man squads (2 BM, IoE, 7 blasters, PW on the champ)
They are a hard nut to crack for anything without str 8 and or ap 3 or better.

I usually run 2 of those squads in rhinos, on my first turn the rhinos advance and they hop out, usually into cover. I sacrifice 1 turn of the ap3 blast to get the blasters in range, but it is worth it.
The big drawback is how expensive that unit is, including the rhino they are over 340 points. Durable yes, can out shoot almost anything within 24 inches besides GKs, but expensive.
When you run them in tandem with a Level 3 Sorc with 2 slaaneshi powers (hopefully symphony of pain) they are deadly.

You have to present more immediate threats than the Noise Marines for them to work though, a big cultist blob with Lucius/Lord works, as does a NM unit with BP/CCW in a LR with Lucius or your lord. Bike unit with a Biker lord as already mentioned. Spawn unit with a lord on steed is always a fun option too. Personally, I Like the CCW NM unit in the LR, give them a doom siren and an icon. With Lucius that's 2 ap3 templates from that unit and they will strike before most MEQs have a chance to do anything.
A DP with wings and the Mace goes a long way to taking pressure off your noise marines also. It can't be ignored or it will just go apeshit.

Lucius's problem is a 3+ armor save and ap3. For only 35 points more in the vanilla codex you can get a 4 wound, EW, 2+/3++ in lysander that lucius has absolutely zero chance against.
The key with Lucius is to avoid 2+ armor saves and get him into challenges.

Don't overlook allied Demons either. Seekers are a very good FA unit. Better than raptors IMO and cheaper. A Herald on a steed with a unit of seekers will do tons of damage.

Rather than predators or vindicators, I would max out my HW slots with individual obliterators... No mark or MoN. These can either be set up in the back to shoot the crap out of stuff or deep striked in to shoot stuff up. Another thought would be termicide groups to deep strike in and go for tanks or combi-flamer/heavy flamer up and use it for hoard control.

I agree rather than 2 shooty Noise Marines of 10 perhaps 3 shooty squads of 5. Perhaps add a havoc launcher to the rhino.

Maybe add VotLW to the assaulty noise marines. Hatred for marines just seems to payoff quite a bit.

VotLW on the bikers too. If you go with Sorcerer, go with 1 Slannesh power and 2 Divination or 2 Biomancy... Nothing sweeter than FNP bikers or Invisible bikes.

I have never been a fan of individual oblits, if i run them, i use two squads of 2 or one of 3, leaving some room for other Heavy choices.

Ztryder wrote:
I have never been a fan of individual oblits, if i run them, i use two squads of 2 or one of 3, leaving some room for other Heavy choices.

240 points can be turned into 3 oblits... While I agree I would rather have 3 x 2man or 2 x 3man squads, I think it is debatable to run
1x 3man or 3x1 man squads.

This is an odd list in that it is not FOC Heavy slot dependent. So he has a lot of flexibility in how to address his needs - which I assume anti-tank. If he drops 1 x 3 man oblit squad, he gets virtually 1 assured dead tank but he can't ever address 3 targets. If he drops 3 x 1 man squads he has the ability to still focus all 3 on one target but he also has the flexibility to address 3 targets.

Ztryder wrote:

 BlkTom wrote:

Predator - 120pts
Dirge Caster, LC Sponsons

Predator - 120pts
Dirge Caster, LC Sponsons

Not understanding the use of Dirge casters on the preds. Waste of points.

The Dirge Caster Preds are on either side of the 10 man NM blob to allow them to fire on any DSing foes and then assault them and not suffer from overwatch. Frankly, it is 10pts total for both, what would you buy with that 10pts that will be just as useful? Melta bombs on the Bike and 10 NM champs? It is a coin flip at the end of the day, both are situational and thus don't matter. There are better chances you will deal with DSers than fight MCs in CC IMO, so DCs it is.


Fett:
You do not want to reduce the squad as he needs 10 guys to get 2x Blastmasters. If you reduce it, your better going two squads of 5 but at that point they become to expensive to kit out, so they end up being naked and thus easier to remove from the game.

Lynch69:
Doom Siren is Str 5, AP 3 Assault Template. That is better than a LC. If I had the points, Melta bomb and LC is my standard champ load-out. I can not get those points without dropping something more important from somewhere else. That is the reason why there are point limits in a game, because you have to make the hard choices. He has a BP and CCW at a high Init. If he can wound or kill the Character of the mob before Challenging him, it is a win. If it is a 2+ save, the LC costs him an extra attack that he is going to need to force failed armor saves to win. That extra attack becomes more important than the LC then, and the Doom Siren is more important than the LC to force a save before actual CC.

Zerib:
The Lord on a steed is a interesting idea for the outflank, but he is now alone and has no choice but to accept every challenge thrown at him. You can still give him a unit and now the whole unit has Outflank but your paying 20pts for +1 attack (because the run bonus is just for that critter) and Outflank vs Jink and +1 Toughness. Personally, I would rather take the Toughness and Cover save (never know when you will be in a Null Zone).

DAaddict:
For 240pts you get 3 Oblits that are rather easy to kill and if you DS them are not shooting turn 1 when you need them. I will point out a Lascannon is AP 2 and Str 9, so if you fail your demonic 5++ Invuln save, your Insta Killed. The firepower I base lists against are lists like IG, where 3 LCs in a HWS is 105pts. The Preds, while arguably as fragile (4+ to glance with a LC, 5-6 to pen), produce more and consistant firepower. Your getting 2 LC shots and 2 AC shots at two targets every turn (when stationary, as they should be) vs 1 TL LC shots every other turn at 3 targets. If the Oblits could keep the same weapon 2 turns in a row like they use to, the arguement would be alot closer. But even with MoN, they need 3 man groups with a IoV to keep them around, and your sinking /way/ to many points into inconsistant firepower at that point IMO. Preds are just better at that point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fett14622 wrote:
Many thanks for the list BlkTom. I like it.

What is a good way to incorporate Lucius? Maybe with Terminators in a Landraider. I have 4 JUSTAERIN TERMINATORS that I put 4 combi plasma or melta . 3 power sword and one LC.

Should I put a LC on the Doom Siren Champ?

The arguement against Lucius is that he and everything around him to make him work are just to expensive for what your getting. IS he good at Challenges? Yes, he is awesome at them. But he needs to get there (as you mentioned, LR is the only vehicle you can assault out of and you want a Dirge Caster on that to stop overwatch shooting) and you want a beefy unit to run with him to take wounds and absorb shots ment for Lucius once he is out on foot. Remember that the Terminators can not make sweeping advance (so Lucius can't as well if he is with them), and that /really/ sucks on a CC unit. So now your looking at a blob of Marines but your limited to 9 that can fit into the LR with Lucius. You probably want NMs with points spent for the additional CCW, IoE, Doom Siren and any other Assault weapons you can fire before charging in (unlike your Rapid Fire Bolters). But 9 guys isn't alot and will not stand up to alot of fire.

The points spent mean your pretty much making a list to support getting Lucius into CC, as he, 9 marines of some sort (that you will want to make scoring anyways) and a LR are going to be pushing 500-600pts easy (Lucius and the naked LR alone are 395pts). Can it be done? Yeah... but it is not easy and you will not have alot of spare points.

Lucius and a big unit of cultists are another good way to get him into CC but they don't have the staying power to hold up to any dedicated CC unit. I honestly would only run him with a dedicated unit of CC noise marines. The icon gets him feel no pain so that is a bonus but as you pointed out it's an expensive unit. On the upside it is actually a pretty durable unit vs shooting with the feel no pain and such and they are scoring with Lucius around so they are not an entirely bad idea to use.

One thing to add here is to consider spawn over bikes. For my money, the only reason to take bikes over spawn is if you want to shoot and avoid CC. Otherwise, Spawn are amazing shock CC troops, particularly when paired with a char. Add a MoN (I know it goes against the Slannesh theme, but it's one unit) and you have an incredibly tough unit to down. A lvl 3 unmarked Sorc. on a bike, rolling biomancy can really hurt things when accompanied by these bad boys.

Also, as others have said, raptors are bad. For 3 points more you get turbo boosting, +1 T, twin linked bolters, and relentless plasma. Just not a comparison tbh.

I will have to pass on obliterators. They aren't fluffy for Emperor Children.

I'm shooting for fluff and to be competitive.

 fett14622 wrote:
I'm shooting for fluff and to be competitive.

good luck with that

I will be honest, I think Mutilators and Obliterators are very Slaaneshi in their own way. Remember Slaanesh is also the god of perfection and hedonism, or at least an obsession with perfection. No units really epitomize that quite so much as Obliterators or Mutliators who are completely and utterly obsessed with perfecting Ranged and Melee Combat perspectively. So i mean the Fluff Justification is there, as long as you convert your own models, because the Finecast Oblits and Mutilators have unfortunate looking models :(