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So Space Marines have a lot of cool shiny toys, armor, weapons, vehicles, and spaceships that all require maintenance. That's where Techmarines come in.

Techmarines are sent to Mars to get their training before returning to their chapters.

How do CSM and loyalist chapters that aren't necessarily on good terms with the Cult Mechanicus manage to stay operational?

Is it possible/plausible to have Techmarines (or Techmarine-substitutes) that aren't part of the Cult Mechanicus?

Sometimes they may trade with the so-called Dark Mechanicus or other rogue Tech-Priests.

Sometimes they may employ slave labour that includes captured Tech-Priests and Enginseers forced to do their bidding.

Mostly they just loot their stuff from other Imperial forces they fought.

What's an example of a SM Chapter on such bad terms with Mars that they can't get equipped?

Hospy wrote:
So Space Marines have a lot of cool shiny toys, armor, weapons, vehicles, and spaceships that all require maintenance. That's where Techmarines come in.

Techmarines are sent to Mars to get their training before returning to their chapters.

How do CSM and loyalist chapters that aren't necessarily on good terms with the Cult Mechanicus manage to stay operational?

Is it possible/plausible to have Techmarines (or Techmarine-substitutes) that aren't part of the Cult Mechanicus?

Possible? Yes. Plausible? No, at least, not in the long term. To do so is to invite the accusation of Tech-Heresy. It would be conceivable that a Tech-Marine trains his replacement(s), but the problem then becomes a matter of resources (if the AdMech doesn't like you, it's hard to get Class D Nuts to fit on the Type D bolts on your Rhino, for example), or a loss of valuable (and otherwise irreplaceable) information if the TM and his apprentices get killed in combat (or if even a few of them, later on down the line, do, if each of them is trained in a particular aspect).

This leaves the Chapter, eventually, without the means to repair their wargear, or craft new ones, and also leaves them out of the loop of new models of Power Armor and such. Of course, it also lends the Chapter a more experimental look, as it develops new devices and wargear to overcome its shortcomings, though that, itself, is Tech-Heresy, a practice of the sin of invention, which may draw censure from other Chapters, as the Heretek Chapter has profaned the sacred war-spirits of their power armor and bolters.

Now y'all mention it, a techno-heretical Chapter would make for an excellent theme for a rogue Space Marine force. We have a few outright heretic Chapters (Relictors come to mind), but none excommunicated for their use of xenos or forbidden technology.

 Lynata wrote:
Sometimes they may trade with the so-called Dark Mechanicus or other rogue Tech-Priests.

Sometimes they may employ slave labour that includes captured Tech-Priests and Enginseers forced to do their bidding.

Mostly they just loot their stuff from other Imperial forces they fought.

Brings up an interesting question though, would IG Techpriest Enginseers be able to service SM equipment? Or more hilariously, I'm just imagining a SM force, their equipment all mish-mashed and jury-rigged trying to fight.

 Manchu wrote:
What's an example of a SM Chapter on such bad terms with Mars that they can't get equipped?

I was primarily trying to justify how a force which is cut off from the Imperium could remain viable, but I guess the Soul Drinkers could be example? Maybe? I'm just operating off Lexicanum, I haven't read any of the novels.

 Psienesis wrote:

Possible? Yes. Plausible? No, at least, not in the long term. To do so is to invite the accusation of Tech-Heresy. It would be conceivable that a Tech-Marine trains his replacement(s), but the problem then becomes a matter of resources (if the AdMech doesn't like you, it's hard to get Class D Nuts to fit on the Type D bolts on your Rhino, for example), or a loss of valuable (and otherwise irreplaceable) information if the TM and his apprentices get killed in combat (or if even a few of them, later on down the line, do, if each of them is trained in a particular aspect).

This leaves the Chapter, eventually, without the means to repair their wargear, or craft new ones, and also leaves them out of the loop of new models of Power Armor and such. Of course, it also lends the Chapter a more experimental look, as it develops new devices and wargear to overcome its shortcomings, though that, itself, is Tech-Heresy, a practice of the sin of invention, which may draw censure from other Chapters, as the Heretek Chapter has profaned the sacred war-spirits of their power armor and bolters.

At what point does it become tech-heresy though? The big no-no seems to be exploring new forms of technology, but repairing that which is broken? Actually, this is going off on a weird tangent, but does the IG even utilize normal what we would consider "mechanics" or is it all Techpriests, all the time?

I had also assumed that each chapter was capable of providing at least basic supply and parts for their own forces, but I guess I misread that somewhere.

Would just be interesting to see a chapter's slow decline in technological equipment, though I guess in practice the Thunderhawks and teleportation equipment would probably be first to go, leaving a pretty hefty question as to how these SM would even see combat.

Hospy wrote:Brings up an interesting question though, would IG Techpriest Enginseers be able to service SM equipment? Or more hilariously, I'm just imagining a SM force, their equipment all mish-mashed and jury-rigged trying to fight.

The Enginseer would surely have a hard time, given that I do not believe he would be trained in anything but the most necessary knowledge for his station. The Mechanicus is extremely secretive and jealously guards its secrets, even from its own. Maybe he could adapt, or at least oversee basic repairs? If not ... well, I would not want to be in his or her shoes.

The latter might actually be commonplace for many Rogue Chapters, I think. It is of note that with the CSMs, the Warp might make some maintenance or repair procedures unnecessary as it seemingly affects and twists their gear also - or at least I have heard of such things.

Hospy wrote:At what point does it become tech-heresy though? The big no-no seems to be exploring new forms of technology, but repairing that which is broken? Actually, this is going off on a weird tangent, but does the IG even utilize normal what we would consider "mechanics" or is it all Techpriests, all the time?

That differs largely on the books you read, at least in detail. That said, a White Dwarf article on Rhinos did note that the Adeptus Arbites and Adepta Sororitas have their own corps "of those sanctified and pure of heart to care for them [their Rhinos]", so there is the option of the AdMech sanctioning personnell to act in their name when it comes to caring for technology.

That said, perhaps the Enginseers already are these mechanics? I'd have to read up on them, they never actually interested me all that much so my knowledge of them is lacking.
I would regard "normal" techs to be somewhat anticlimatic in that it could damage the veil of mysticism that has been draped over technology - but I recall it being mentioned that some novels feature such characters. Then again, if I remember correctly it was some book (something with aircraft) from the "Abnettverse" which also has Navigator-Servitors etc; make of that what you will.

Hospy wrote:I had also assumed that each chapter was capable of providing at least basic supply and parts for their own forces, but I guess I misread that somewhere.

Yes, most Space Marine Chapters would have their own forges, manned by their Tech-Priests, servitors and serfs. Tech-Priests still rely on Mechanicus training, however. I'm not entirely sure what would happen if the Chapter would get "cut off" from Mars' support entirely. Would the remaining Tech-Priests be successful at passing on their knowledge themselves? Or would the Mechanicus' training be minimalised (focusing only on essential maintenance and basic construction steps without explaining the workings behind a process) and structured in a way that would make it harder to become independent?

In general I agree with slow decline in tech being a likely outcome. Especially given that a Chapter Forge is located within its Fortress-Monastery - which would soon be visited by Imperial Forces attempting to censure the wayward Chapter, and thus out of reach of its original owners. Not to mention the issue of obtaining raw materials etc.

What we would consider a "mechanic", that is, someone tasked with the maintenance of weapons and vehicles, that is not a member of the Priesthood of Mars is called a "Technomat". These are people who are trained to care for a device (or several devices) through rote memorization and repetition of task. What these people *don't* do, unlike most of the AdMech, is understand what it is they're doing. They know that, for example, if this red light on the Rhino's dashboard is lit, they need to replace this engine part, burn this kind of incense, chant this prayer, and anoint linkages five through twenty-three with four-point-one-five milliliters of sacred oils thrice daily for two days in order to sooth the machine-spirit.