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 Rented Tritium wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Auditor, dictator, there's a difference?

You are joking, but because people might not know, an auditor doesn't have power. They just present findings.

Young man, you've celarly never been audited.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Auditor, dictator, there's a difference?

You are joking, but because people might not know, an auditor doesn't have power. They just present findings.

Young man, you've celarly never been audited.

I'm literally being audited right now. They are down the hall.

So .. what's come of it? Looking at Pontiac, which has had dictators (first appointed Governor Granholm, a Democrat) for five years now, the Oakland Press cheerfully reports, "Pontiac Budget Healthier":

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/03/01/news/local_news/doc51311f11ad975930377842.txt?viewmode=default

But here are the figures from that very article ...

Before Dictator
Revenue: $54 million
Spending: $55 million

In Fifth Year of Dictatorship
Revenue: $30 million
Spending: $36 million

Then there is the question of the $7 million deficit back in 2009. Surely, dictatorship (or at least Lou Schimmel's dictatorship) proves itself in that regard? Schimmel did balance the budget in the last fiscal year (dealing with a $8 million deficit, in case you were wondering) by literally decimating city jobs and nabbing a $55 million "cash infusion" deal with Oakland for waste water treatment. Great, that's one year covered -- and, looking ahead, the deal is supposed to provide $5 million annually for retirement and pension obligations.

But there's still a matter of that $6 million dollar structural deficit in the context of a $24 million decrease in revenues in five years, i.e., the six-fold increase in deficit spending under dictatorship has NOT effectively "primed the pump." How will Schimmel deal with this?

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2013/03/06/news/local_news/doc5137c857a554c274404964.txt

Another wave of retirement cuts!

Those of us who are a certain age can’t even buy life insurance at any rate, especially at an affordable price. It’s just — when we were working, many of us did not buy life insurance based on the promises that were made to us. It’s just another betrayal.

Sorry grandma! Schimmel's response:

If I can’t get any help from them, then I’m going to have to just look at the plan and downsize the plan some more even beyond these things.

What does "help from them" mean? That they roll over as you steal their hard-earned money?

Wait, I thought the wastewater deal was supposed to help with retirement and pensions ...

Also, who gets to control this wastewater facility? Duh -- Oakland, of course! Schimmel is stealing people's benefits and selling off anything valuable in Pontiac to deal with a single year's deficit! So what are we going to steal and sell for next year's deficits? This should be sounding pretty familiar to people seriously following the plight of Detroit.

Simply put, this kind of dictatorship favors short term budgetary goals over long term prosperity or even sustainability. What use is a balanced budget if there is no recovery? From Lansing's point of view, there is a huge difference -- namely, municipal bankruptcy. That is what the dictator is there to do -- to prevent the state from assuming the city's liabilities. The state does not care whether or not the city grows and thrives at this point. Snyder simply doesn't want to pay.

So, my fellow Americans, do any of you remember what's good about democracy? That's right, the principle is about accountability. The elected leaders should represent their constituents' interests. So what happens when the people do not get to elect their leaders?

Their leaders will govern according to somebody else's interests.

Dude Pontiac is a ghost town. Lions moving was the last nail in the coffin

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. But I reckon I'm pretty familiar with it considering that I lived in Lake Orion, literally right across the street from Auburn Hills, in 2009-2010.

 Huffy wrote:
http://www.governing.com/topics/mgmt/gov-emergency-financial-managers-michigan-municipalities-unwelcome-savior.html

Here's an article on the EM in Pontiac, does a decent job of describing pluses and minuses of an EM(some may consider it biased)

It also has a cool map showing areas that are currently under an EM in MI

That is a great article. I thought it gave a pretty balanced view of the pros and cons. Thanks for posting it.

One thing that really stood out to me is that the first town Schimmel took over as an EM was called Escorse (or something). The EM did his thing, and then left. Now, the same city is back in financial troubles, and has a new EM. So, what good is the EM if the city still can't sustain itself? Couldn't the City Council fail like that too?

Oh wait, just like I predicted, the right's response was that the EM didn't have enough power the first time, and hence the PA4 was passed, with more power. So, if Pontiac (and others) falls back into problems, then what? Do we just give the next EM even more power next time around?

People forget that a Minicipality is NOT a Business. They run by different rules.

 Rented Tritium wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Auditor, dictator, there's a difference?

You are joking, but because people might not know, an auditor doesn't have power. They just present findings.

Young man, you've celarly never been audited.

I'm literally being audited right now. They are down the hall.

A personal audit or your company?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Easy E wrote:

 Huffy wrote:
http://www.governing.com/topics/mgmt/gov-emergency-financial-managers-michigan-municipalities-unwelcome-savior.html

Here's an article on the EM in Pontiac, does a decent job of describing pluses and minuses of an EM(some may consider it biased)

It also has a cool map showing areas that are currently under an EM in MI

That is a great article. I thought it gave a pretty balanced view of the pros and cons. Thanks for posting it.

One thing that really stood out to me is that the first town Schimmel took over as an EM was called Escorse (or something). The EM did his thing, and then left. Now, the same city is back in financial troubles, and has a new EM. So, what good is the EM if the city still can't sustain itself? Couldn't the City Council fail like that too?

Oh wait, just like I predicted, the right's response was that the EM didn't have enough power the first time, and hence the PA4 was passed, with more power. So, if Pontiac (and others) falls back into problems, then what? Do we just give the next EM even more power next time around?

People forget that a Minicipality is NOT a Business. They run by different rules.

Which goes back to my point. let it die.

How do you let a city die? As in, what does it look like, realistically and not just a our fantasies?

 Easy E wrote:
How do you let a city die? As in, what does it look like, realistically and not just a our fantasies?

Actually...that's a good point.

Is there ever a reason/change to say "let's start over"? Meaning:
1) All contracts are null & void
2) All elected positions gone
3) All local laws are repealed
4) ??

Essentially... just start over from scratch.

a) re-elect officials
b) recreate necessary departments (unneeded depts don't apply)
c) re-draft sensible municiple rules and regulation
d) ???

See my drift? Can that ever happen?

Trouble is, it's not dying -- someone is trying to murder it. Well, that's ascribing malicious intent, which I don't think is really the issue. Better put, someone is recklessly endangering the life of these places. They are purely indifferent to the places, which they can afford to be as dictators.

 Easy E wrote:
How do you let a city die? As in, what does it look like, realistically and not just a our fantasies?

Look west. You'll see thousands of dead towns.

 Manchu wrote:
Trouble is, it's not dying -- someone is trying to murder it. Well, that's ascribing malicious intent, which I don't think is really the issue. Better put, someone is recklessly endangering the life of these places. They are purely indifferent to the places, which they can afford to be as dictators.

No, Manchu.

Someone is trying to get them to stop spending massively more money than they have every year, and trying to get them to adjust to the reality that all the people with jobs blew town a while ago.

Take a look at my post about Pontiac above. To paraphrase Easy E, your post is not an explanation; it is an ideology.

Well, is that the intnent of the EM then Fraz; to kill the town?

In that article about Pontiac, you can see the size ofthe population has dropped significantly. If it keeps going, you will just have an empty town.

Maybe out west in the late 19oo's and early 20th century, that isn't so bad since the environment will just move in. However, won't the impact be a bit different if a cities suburb just emptied out?

Kevin Orr is the EW. He's a bankruptcy attorney.

Here we go:
http://news.yahoo.com/michigan-expected-announce-takeover-detroit-finances-100424650.html

Obviously, we need an "Emergency Manager" to take over the United States to solve the deficit and balance the budget.

 Easy E wrote:
Obviously, we need an "Emergency Manager" to take over the United States to solve the deficit and balance the budget.

I stand ready. Frazzled will restore order. Frazzled will make the trains run on time.

I think maybe you need to find a btter way to express yourself here.
Thanks
reds8n

I can't wait to see what Kevin Orr's end result is

New news on the EM front....

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/does-michigans-emergency-manager-law-disenfranchise-black-citizens/275639/

*Snip*
If population loss and a depleted tax base can prompt emergency management, does that mean local government is a luxury poor people can't afford?

Also this from David Weigel:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/05/09/three_cheers_for_un_elected_emergency_managers.html

*snip*
One problem with this: Confidence in their elected officials was collapsing before the EM came to town. Detroit's previous elected mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick, won two terms on low turnout then went to jail on a total of 26 felony counts. The city council president elevated by his resignation, Monica Conyers, went to jail, too. And the problem runs deeper than that, with a total lack of faith in city services. (Watch some of Charlie LeDuff's dispatches from the city about the length of time it takes to get cops to show up after a 9-11 call.) By the way, the emergency manager hired to preside over this, Kevyn Orr, is black. Does that matter? It complicates the "Jim Crow" huffing a little, doesn't it?

Fun times!

What's Jim Crow huffing?

It sounds illegal.

I think he means shouting "Jim Crowe" with no real evidence to back it up. I.e. huffing and puffing about laws design to exclude people due to race when such calims may not have any evidence.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130512/METRO01/305130320/Detroit-insolvent-EM-Kevyn-Orr-says?odyssey=mod|breaking|text|FRONTPAGE

So, Orr is saying Detroit is insolvent. And he's expecting the cities deficit to grow to be near 400 million by the end of the fiscal year, with the track it's on right now.

Pretty bad...

The city worker's pension plans are even in bad shape, and I'm sure that WAS target #1. But, the report states:

For the first time, Orr raised questions in the report about how well-funded Detroit's two city employee pensions systems really are.

The Detroit General Retirement System and Police & Fire Retirement System claim to have been 83 and 100 percent funded, respectively, as of June 2011. But Orr and a team of consultants aiding the restructuring of city government are beginning to question mathematical assumptions used to determine the value of the funds.

The city's June 2011 report showed the pensions having a $646 million accrued unfunded liability. But Orr said the market value of the two pension funds' assets — such as real estate — were more than $1 billion less than the actuarial assumptions.

So even that basic Republicna Strategy will not work out. Ouch.