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Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Everyone suggests the same units to me... shoota boyz, lootaz, big mek and dakka jet being the worst culprits. Whats a good way to make a reasonably strong (read: not super-competitive) army without using any of that stuff?

In particular, I'm keen on more elite units, ideally ones that are ded killy in hand to hand, and fun units like the Weirdboy. Already getting to work on a few Biker Nobz, but wondering what kind of models would complement these guys well.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

Nobz in BW, Burnas in BW, heck maybe even Tankbustas in BW. Everything can be better when its stuffed in a BW!

Normal Bikers are decent, or perhaps some warbuggies for meatshields

Burna Bommas can flush troops in cover out, except marines

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/02 01:01:33


 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Heh, now thats what I want to hear. I have a BW and a bunch of nobs already, as well as a burna bomba. Good to hear that stuff isn't useless
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Well if you don't want boys your only real options are to either go wazdakka to get bikers and troops or take 2 warbosses to get nobz and meganobs as troops. Other than that you could use kills kans and Burna boys if you want to try something different that can still works. The only unit I would stay away from is flashgitz. Other than that, go nuts. You may not win as much but you can still do pretty well using most anything in the ork codex though not using boyz will cost you the most, our base troop is one of the best in the game.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

krazykishere wrote:
Well if you don't want boys your only real options are to either go wazdakka to get bikers and troops or take 2 warbosses to get nobz and meganobs as troops. Other than that you could use kills kans and Burna boys if you want to try something different that can still works. The only unit I would stay away from is flashgitz. Other than that, go nuts. You may not win as much but you can still do pretty well using most anything in the ork codex though not using boyz will cost you the most, our base troop is one of the best in the game.


He said Shoota Boyz, not Boyz in general

So Sluggas seem to be an option

Stuff them in a BW too

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/02 01:09:19


 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





I don't mind using a few Boyz, but I have mostly slugga boyz and apparantly they suck terribly. I've played a few games with my friend's green tide and good lord the logistics of getting those boys on the board and from one side to the other were a nightmare, hence the focus on elites

Are Flash Gitz really as awful as everyone says they are? On paper they look pretty cool. Could Badrukk improve them at all?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/02 01:09:51


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

The main problem of Flash Gitz isnt that they're too terrible, if you roll lucky then you can get anti MEQ/TEQ weaponry on Nob bodies


Problem is they take up Heavy Support slots, without the ability to take transports. In most lists this means less BW, less Kanz, less Gunz, less everything!

Imo if they, like normal Nobz, had the ability to take BW then they would be a bit more common

And maybe if snazz gunz are normally assault 2 because more dakka is pretty much mandatory

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/02 01:17:12


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

I read an article on another site that had an entire thing on how to run grots. Which led into a gretchin based army. Was superbly amazing.

Units that do not get much love anymore that can be useful: Kommandoes, Nob Bikers, Walkers, gretchin, and tankbustas.

   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





Granite city, IL

I Do 2SAGS 2deff dreads as troops 2X19 gretchin mobs and fill my Heavy support wit KANZ. Or ghaz W/9 meganobz in a wagon and wazz w/ bikerz EVERYWHERE.

Evil Genius at absolutely - Muffins!
Dakkamuffins!
Gubstop urlurk's big un! 7000 points(and growing!)
Lobukia wrote: One does not simply insult a mega-troll
 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

 dreamakuma wrote:
I Do 2SAGS 2deff dreads as troops 2X19 gretchin mobs and fill my Heavy support wit KANZ. Or ghaz W/9 meganobz in a wagon and wazz w/ bikerz EVERYWHERE.


Speaking of Meganobz, Meganob cruise missile imo are hilarious (meganobz in a trukk)

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Dakkamite wrote:
I don't mind using a few Boyz, but I have mostly slugga boyz and apparantly they suck terribly. I've played a few games with my friend's green tide and good lord the logistics of getting those boys on the board and from one side to the other were a nightmare, hence the focus on elites

Are Flash Gitz really as awful as everyone says they are? On paper they look pretty cool. Could Badrukk improve them at all?


Slugga boyz don't suck, just need some TLC. Stuff 1 squad in a bw, a squad of burnas with a big mek in another and 3 squads in trucks all with rpj. Stick the 2 bw in front with the trucks behind it and follow that with a line of killa kans or better yet warbikers then slam the entire line forward as fast as possible and watch hilarity ensue. For this list to do really well back it up with 2 dakka jets to down fliers.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Slugga boyz dont suck, the issue is you have a chance to lose a lot in overwatch without Shoota numbers to thin your target's numbers down. Its the same strength gun, diff AP (an ap that means nothing), slightly shorter range but its 1 shot not 2 thats why its favored right now. I almost dont want to charge unless im facing something that outguns 20+ shootas lol (vehicles, MEQs, necrons, etc) because i usually fire way, way more shots than they do...they just hit harder.

Flash Gitz are absoluely rancid. I dinked around with it a few weeks ago, not worth it. I didnt even fully kit them out (left off the last upgrade to -1 the AP result, adding Gets Hot! rule) and it was 430pts including the painboy/cybork upgrades!!! Know what that force did the whole game? 1 wound. It seriously needs more shots (default 2 upgraded 3), better strength (str7 upgrade str 8) and default 3+ or a damn dedicated transport to be any good. That was more expensive than a small nob biker missile,and far far less threatening. I even stuck a Warphead in there for 'Ere We Go! results - ended up not wanting it because i'd put myself in range of 4 necron shooty groups (warriors with gauss i think they were) or i can sit where i was and keep pecking at a single group that was too far forward for some reason.
EDIT: Oh, and i DIDNT have Kaptain Badrukk in there. Thats another 135pts btw.

Kommandos are next in line for useless, but they DO have potential. Why? Get 5-10 + Snikrot (note, he is ADDED to the group not an upgraded ork,so 6-11 models) and stick a meganob warboss in that group. The meganob warboss can Ambush with the kommandos - put him in front and LoS any AP2 or Instapasting attacks, take your armor against the rest. I also did this in the flash gitz experiment game and that necron player went "OMG WTF SHYTSHYT MEGANOB BOSS SHYT!" and caused a wopping 1 wound out of like ~35 saves or so lol.
EDIT: If you have the points, get burnas in this group. Its 3 AP3 attackers against 3+ saves (dont fire it before a charge) or 3 templates against hordy groups. Its 45pts though, so keep that in mind.

Stormboyz i see people run in decent sized groups with a nob pk'd out lurking behind some wagons then jump over the wagons for the charge. Also can take Zagstrukk and 5 stormboyz for a deepstrike insta-gib on a vehicle, if you want. Course, gotta remember deepstrike scatter, as they cant shoot if you do this, take D3 auto deaths on the boyz if you assault, and they count as using their rokkit packs so they cant use it in the assault. Still funny when they land behind a Basilisk or something and go HI!!!

Tankbustas' issue is they cost the same as Lootas, and unlike Lootas require a BW to get around. Dont care who argues otherwise, BW isnt that tanky...dunno something about putting ~350-400pts thats squishy and VERY deadly up in your opponents face doesnt sit well in my books. Also gotta remember the Glory Hogs rule for them...if theres a random flier around they ahve to shoot at it and not the 3+ armored Necrons or MEQs infront of them. Lootas are way better as they do next to the same thing for cheaper and safer costs. I dislike rokkits unless its a TL kopta.

I have no real experience in Killa Kans or Deffdredds but being vehicles with no inheriet save, i imagine they'd have the same issue my trukks/bw's have - random weapon pens it and explodes it first damn time every time. Tempted to start taking a Deffdredd to lurk around my Lootas though since its issue ive had so far is getting it in range...and it looks veeeerrrry scary up close. Wait for that deepstrike/infiltrate and charge it! only 110pts why not never tried it though.

Burnas have good reviews in a BW, i just never ran it so i have no comment. The idea of only moving 6(7 RPJ) inches and to fire kinda scares me out of it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/02 02:25:09


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





Granite city, IL

 kenshin620 wrote:
 dreamakuma wrote:
I Do 2SAGS 2deff dreads as troops 2X19 gretchin mobs and fill my Heavy support wit KANZ. Or ghaz W/9 meganobz in a wagon and wazz w/ bikerz EVERYWHERE.


Speaking of Meganobz, Meganob cruise missile imo are hilarious (meganobz in a trukk)
I do em in a truck when They are elites. make them a denial unit or something to smash into the biggest non termie threat. or to just get in the way to be shot at. on a more hard note i like to do 2 KFF's foot sloggin w/ gretchin and deff dreads, Kanz too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/02 02:24:54


Evil Genius at absolutely - Muffins!
Dakkamuffins!
Gubstop urlurk's big un! 7000 points(and growing!)
Lobukia wrote: One does not simply insult a mega-troll
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Meganobz in a Trukk are crazy good!

Bee beep boo baap 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




SC

I'd do some trial and error. Your mileage may vary depending on your terrain and the people / armies you play against. There's nothing wrong with slugga boyz, just keep them in trucks or a BW until you assault.

Manz in a truck, keep BW's cheap. Ork motto is always boyz before toyz.

 
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Wow this thread turned out better than expected. Putting quotes, replies, questions etc in a spoiler so the thread is a little neater

Spoiler:

I read an article on another site that had an entire thing on how to run grots. Which led into a gretchin based army. Was superbly amazing.


Could you possibly provide a link? Or anything else that can help me find it... I love grots lol

Problem is they take up Heavy Support slots, without the ability to take transports. In most lists this means less BW, less Kanz, less Gunz, less everything!


Thanks for clearing that up, I thought everyone hated them because they were super weak though I admit assault 1 is slowed for an Ork shooting specialist. I love the idea of Flash Gitz and everything else Bad-Moonzy

EDIT: Oh, and i DIDNT have Kaptain Badrukk in there. Thats another 135pts btw.


So Badrukk definitely doesn't make them worthwhile? He looks like a beast

I do em in a truck when They are elites. make them a denial unit or something to smash into the biggest non termie threat. or to just get in the way to be shot at


More like this? I'm very interested in MANz but the obscene dollar cost of each model puts me off. How do you guys put these beasts to work? I just can't see them not attracting every ounce of AP2 fire and dying instantly due to lack of ++ save

Ork motto is always boyz before toyz


Is boys referring to, well, shoota/slugga/other cheap boyz, or does it apply to Nobz and other elite units like that?

Snikrot + MA Warboss


I just so happen to have a Snikrot and a Ghazghull who can easily counts as a MA Warboss. Will definitely be doing this

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/02 04:55:05


 
   
Made in us
Kovnik





Texas

Killa kans are actually really good. And if you stuff some burnas in a BW. Make use of what you have. Just make it abide by the rules and make sure you have fun.

I love stormboyz, but they only come in at 1000 point games, unless your crazy (like me) and bring 16 stormboyz and only 15 boyz or some amount like that. It barely worked but I won >

Just test new things. Take HQ's that will make elites troops because most of this game revolves around troops and just make it fun for yourself.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

 Nafarious wrote:
Killa kans are actually really good.


Actually if anything most ork players prefer Kanz over Dreads (due to grot zookas and squads)

I think the only reason most people take dreads is because they can take them as troops

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/02 05:15:23


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Boyz referrs to sluggas and shoota boyz. Reason is they are one of if not the best cost for performance model in the game, and with the exception of heavy things that they cant touch (except the Nob) sheer numbers of them can take anything out. Thats what the few toyz orks ever take are designed to deal with, which is another reason Flash Gitz are terrible because theyre a low strength unit.
Prior to challenges 5-6 Nobz with PK in the mass of Boyz could deal with almost anything, but now with challenges they just get pushed to the side because they cant face anything 1v1 that has any real threat behind it. Which brings Meganobz or Bikernobz to mind because they are NOT character'd PKs.

Stormboyz are awesome because they can move so bloody fast its really hard to stay away from them if not impossible. Theyre good against Fast vehicles with a big gun because normally the big gun can still run away and fire that one gun, stormboyz can catch it unless it goes flat out which cancels out that gun for that turn. Not as good as Loota fire but if you cant kill it with lootas stormboyz are great (AV14 front or cover of some sort preventing sight)

EDIT: The thing about Kans vs Dredds is its nearly 2kans per 1 dredd cost-wise (more on the cheaper side than expensive side of that ratio) and its only 1 less AV and wound but getting multiple models. Ive wanted to try getting 9 kans with KMBs and utilizing that BS3 but the issue is they would get shot down before getting anywhere.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/02 05:26:40


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





You aren't doing anything original with Nob bikers. The only units in the ork army that I would say are not played often are flash gitz and warbuggies. Tankbustas used to be on the list till premeassuring helped fix them. Everything else usually sees play
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Canada

It's not that people aren't running dead killy hand to hand units, it's just that the focus of the game has shifted way more to objective scoring than straight killing, so units like Shoota boyz have really been shining as the get on an objective and blast anything that gets near it (and are brutal in hand to hand anyways)

Also, as mentioned above Grots are great scoring and non-traditional as well.

As long as you have good scoring then you can make the heavy hitters whatever unit you want. I ran BW nobz a lot and I think they're still great, lately I have not been running up against as much S8 as I used to so their 2 wound make them really durable, plus with a BW 10 of them kept cheap with a couple PK's and a Warboss tagging along make them brutal.

I think Stormboyz can be good, since 50% of the game now is night-fighting they get decent cover in T1, you just need to use their mobility to keep them out of LOS from the thick of the shooting so that they can zip in and hit something hard at the right time (more of a finesse unit, if anything in the Ork dex can be called that).

 
   
Made in nl
Flashy Flashgitz






 kenshin620 wrote:
Nobz in BW, Burnas in BW, heck maybe even Tankbustas in BW. Everything can be better when its stuffed in a BW!


By Gork and Mork, .. this made me laugh XD Thing is though, its true,.. if i could just put a BW in my BW! Think of the possibilities XD

I mainly use Choppa/Slugga boyz.. And thats because i bought to much black reach back in the day So i only have around 30 Shoota boyz,..

Kanz are nice, but they are quite slow and lightly armored..
Bikers can be fun, but are quite costly in my opinion..
I like gretchin for objective games.. I just put them in reserve and let them walk on to the table and cap objectives at the last sec so my boyz can go on stompin stuff.
Nobz are good, but dont go for the overkill like, lets say,, a squad of 9+. Nobz stomp stuf real good. Give m a pain boy, +-3 powerklaws and maybe a waagh banner or something.. AND!! BW!!!
I myself like boomgunz a lot, but i seem to have way more luck than most people here... Last year i had a game,.. first shot,.. dead on on a 10 man SM squad,... they dead now son

As stated above, just stay away from flash gitzz... But i must say, as all orks say, cant kill it? Throw more boyz at it.. And loota'z,.. they be dead killy..

6K
6K
6K
4K
 
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Battle Creek, MI

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:


By Gork and Mork, .. this made me laugh XD Thing is though, its true,.. if i could just put a BW in my BW! Think of the possibilities XD



THIS! *goes looking his big mek*

Lol

   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker






If you want to go for an especially unique army, there was a biker ork army in my FLGS' most recent tournament that allied with necrons to get night fight for most of the game.

T5 orks with 2+ and 3+ cover saves are ridiculously hard to kill, it turns out.

I think the list went something like:

Forge World Bike Character
Biker Boss
5x Nob Bikers
12x Ork Bikers
12x Ork Bikers

Night-fighting HQ guy
two minimal Warriors squads

Also, kenshin620, I love your Paranatural-themed avatar/sig. JUSTICE HUG!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/02 16:33:39


The Seraphs of Thunder: a homebrew, almost entirely converted successor Deathwing. And also some Orks. And whatever else I have lying around. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa






New England

 Dakkamite wrote:

Could you possibly provide a link? Or anything else that can help me find it... I love grots lol


http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=48797
This link provides a great, if long, tactica on using gretchin. It was made for 5th, but most all the principles still apply, and I am sure using common sense you can adapt it to 6th.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/03 07:24:29


   
 
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