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Hi guys,

I've been collecting and painting for a long time but i have never played 40k before. While I wanted to get into the game the prices are just reaching that point that where I'm starting to think "even if I did get into the game would it be worth all the money?" between the codicies, models, rulebooks, accessories, game boards. I just don't think I want to shell the money anymore. I'll still enjoy painting and modeling occasionally and maybe the occasional skirmish, but that'll be about it.

This brings me to my main point. Are there any other sci-fi wargames out there that are significantly cheaper than 40k? My second and less important question is, are they any easier to play than 40k? I've read the 5th ed rulebook almost twice and I still have trouble playing the game. There are simply to many rules for a casual gamer like me.

I hope i posted in the right spot, and i look forward to everyones response!

Also! I would like to clear up some of my specifications for those I confused. My perfect game (I am aware my perfect does NOT exist, but it will clarify what I want out of the game) is probably 28mm models with some modeling and painting required. With easy and simple rules to play (I understand this means lack of depth to gameplay) cheaper prices than 40k and smaller scale battles down to a minimum of squad on squad combat. I really love sci-fi so that would be an ideal requirement.

This again?

Maybe you want to look in the Alternate Games thread beforehand?

We can't tell you what you like! Look around!

I'd go with Spinespur. Go for that or malifaux.

Otherwise you can go for magic the gathering. You don't need a game board, the rules and a starter only cost $10, no supplemental rule books, or anything other than the cards you buy. You can't beat that price!

Blap, I glanced at the alternative games, but I know off my head that there are tons more games out there not listed here. I figured this would be a little easier for me to get a broad list from a lot of people. I've looked into dark potential, but that's even more expensive than 40k!

I'll take a closer look at the alternative games though!

I would look into what the people you plan to play with play. A perfect game does you no good without people to play with.

Also, if you ask for someone to demo or possibly let you play with their models, most people will be more than happy to help as growing the community helps a playerbase. Actually playing the game can help decide if the rules make sense and are fun.

Right now, there is nothing out there that is a direct alternative to 40K... just a whole slew of smaller-scale skirmish games. Or at least nothing commercially available.

Warmachine is slowly creeping up into bigger games, though, and the upcoming reboot of Warzone looks promising.

Smaller scale skirmish games sound pretty cool, but what do you mean they are not commercially available? They're not for sale?

I think he means there's no rulesets similar to 40k on commercial sale. Possibly a house set of rules, etc.

There are plenty of historical games, such as Warlord Games, but no real sci-fi ones that I know of with the same scale and range that GW offers.

With 40K you don't have to jump in at the deep end. Start small. Starting big with any similar game is going to cost close to GW prices.

I've been looking for other sci-fi games myself to play as well as 40K, but I too have found very little that interests me.

King Crow - a few questions if I may.

What kind of thing are you after? What kind of scale of game (so just a small number of miniatures, or a larger 'mass battle' system?)

Going on what you have said so far, probably the closest thing you could find that is not 40k would be Mantic's Warpath. It will fill two of your criteria - it's cheaper, and the game mechanics are more straight-forward and I think intuitive. They have currently released a version 2.0 of the rules, which are getting a fair amount of interest.

Here is the website link: http://www.manticgames.com/Warpath.html

You can download the rules for free as well: http://www.manticgames.com/Hobby/Gaming.html (scroll down towards the bottom for the Warpath rules).

The game is still gathering steam (it's still pretty new) but the game universe is starting to flesh out - I think well worth checking out in any case.

Ugavine, what games have you found? Also, while I might be in for playing 40k in a small scale, the codex prices are still crazy and so are the rules and the bare neccesities to play 40k. It's really hard to get your friends to invest that kind of time and money into a game they may or may not like. Dark potential looks cool, but those prices are even worse than GW's prices.

I'd recommend checking out Necromunda. It's a skirmish game from GW that hasn't received support in some time. However, the rulebook is offered on their website for free, and you can use pretty much any miniatures to play it with.

That being said, I really think 40k is one of the best wargames out there. If you want to get a startup army, there are usually several used ones for sale at any given time online, and you can save yourself a bundle that way. (THAT being said, don't forget to support your local game store!)

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
I think he means there's no rulesets similar to 40k on commercial sale. Possibly a house set of rules, etc.

Yeah, that. If you hunt around online, you'll find various 'Use Any Miniatures You Have' rulesets floating about that people have knocked together for their own use.


There was Aetherverse, which was briefly sold as an actual book, but unfortunately didn't survive very long as the creator had other commitments that took priority over promoting his game.

Tomorrow's War, infinitely better and has all the rules you need for footsloggers and vehicles.

http://ambushalleygames.com/products/store/product/show/cid-66/name-tomorrows-war/category_pathway-0

Pacific, I'm looking for a smaller scale, sci-fi game. Price is important, as that's the reason i'm looking to broaden the games I play, and more laid back simple rules. I understand all of my criteria comes with a lot of drawbacks, but I'm also looking to get a couple friends involved with tighter budgets and time schedules.

Also, Can someone explain to me more about "house Rules"? Where can I find them? Will they work well with the games workshop models I already have?

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'd recommend checking out Necromunda. It's a skirmish game from GW that hasn't received support in some time. However, the rulebook is offered on their website for free, and you can use pretty much any miniatures to play it with.

That being said, I really think 40k is one of the best wargames out there. If you want to get a startup army, there are usually several used ones for sale at any given time online, and you can save yourself a bundle that way. (THAT being said, don't forget to support your local game store!)

I agree with absolutely everything this man has said.

I just read through the Necromunda rules this past weekend, and they are pretty damn phenomenal. The game requires fewer than twenty models, give or take, per player. Very story-based campaign and modelling oriented. You and your friends could easily each play the game with a box of Catachans, Guardsmen, or Chaos Cultists and a heavy weapon team (with maybe a character model thrown in here and there for fun). There are no tanks, no flyers, and no Grey Knights. If you are not afraid of a little kit-bashing and a little painting (which it sounds like you aren't), then this is your jam.

Just google "Necromunda Rules" and you're there.

40K dont have to be expensive. I have 2 armies, well over 2000 pts each and it was ''cheap''. Buy most of your stuff online OR buy used stuff. Its the best way IMO to have a good experience in 40K and to avoid limiting yourself for budget reason.

While my friends buy only brand new models, I have twice or trice what they have and my model are looking as good as their.

TL;DR: buy your stuff online or used models and get in 40k

House rules are generally not online. They may range from simple modifications to existing rules (changing the movement of vehicles for example) or they might be complete rules written from scratch (an example of those would be something like "No Limits" from Wargames Unlimited...which sounds fancy enough, but it is really just a set of house rules that are available online).

http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/

Since most house rules are just that - house rules...the only way to get a hold of them is to go to that persons house, or otherwise have them delivered to you specifically by them. There are some really good ones out there, but there are enough readily available sets of rules that it sort of makes house rules interesting - but not worth a significant quest (keeping in mind that we use a lot of house rules in our local group as well...).

Regarding the rules - yes, there are some which are cheaper, there are some which have comparable costs per figure, there are some which are more expensive. A lot will depend on you and yours.

One of the fastest ways to reduce the price is to just drop scale. 15mm figures are plentiful and you can purchase an entire army for the cost of a Landraider. Rules are easily adjusted (one of the simplest adjustments to go from larger scale 28mm to smaller scales like 10mm or 15mm games is to just switch inches to centimeters and get on with it).

If you want to stick with the 28mm and larger figures, an army will cost a bit for science fiction - no matter who you get your figures from (historical figures tend to be cheaper...because there is much more competition in that market and historical gamers won't generally pay stupid prices for figures). There are cheaper sources (Mantic, Wargames Factory, Defiance when they are actually shipping stuff, Reaper...as their line grows and with a bunch becoming Bones...) for a lot of different sci-fi and fantasy miniatures. Most other companies though are dealing with metal - so when you compare their metal prices to GW's plastic prices...GW actually ends up being slightly cheaper for some of the ground pounders.

Anyway, back towards the rules thing...

There really are a lot of games which are competition against 40K - though they are often overlooked for a variety of reasons...one of the more common reasons is that the other rules are written for skirmish games or for a different scale. The scale issue is a cinch as I mentioned, 15mm scales and below are normally written for centimeters as opposed to inches. 90% of the time you can just switch the measurements over to inches and everything will work as intended.

The other biggie though is the issue of skirmish games versus whatever they think 40K is. The thing is though, 40K is really a skirmish game as well...well, mostly. There are a few tweaks which they have done in order to make it work a bit better on larger scales - but nothing spectacular. Those same tweaks can be applied to the vast majority of other rules to play larger games with them as well...and likely play the games faster than you could using 40K to boot.

Most of the more popular names have been mentioned a dozen or more times (or listed in the thread linked to). In terms of the simplest rules you will find, a DBx based rule set like HoTT will be what you are after. I know I have seen a sci-fi addendum for that some place. Another good place to look is to browse a site like Wargames Vault and look for the quickplay/intro rules and reviews from there. You will find dozens of games that fit your criteria...though without knowing you specifically, it is hard to recomend a game that will do what you specifically want.

necromunda looks cool. But The prices for the gang models are bit steep. Not a problem though if some kitbashing is done to the models I already have, or if I look around ebay and stuff like that. Are the rules hard to follow?

 King Crow wrote:
necromunda looks cool. But The prices for the gang models are bit steep. Not a problem though if some kitbashing is done to the models I already have, or if I look around ebay and stuff like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
necromunda looks cool. But The prices for the gang models are bit steep. Not a problem though if some kitbashing is done to the models I already have, or if I look around ebay and stuff like that.

Pretty much. You could even buy a box of Cadians or Catachans and probably get good use out of them for Necromunda.

With all that said, what kind of pricing are you looking for? Models, in general, tend to be somewhat pricey. If the number of models you get in a kit per dollar spent is your concern, for sci-fi or fantasy GW or Mantic is your best bet, but of course, you're going to need to buy quite a lot of models to play a decent game. Otherwise there's historicals. Also keep in mind that while, say, a Necromunda gang costs about $40, you won't need to buy any more models, as that's pretty much all you need for a full game.

 King Crow wrote:
necromunda looks cool. But The prices for the gang models are bit steep. Not a problem though if some kitbashing is done to the models I already have, or if I look around ebay and stuff like that. Are the rules hard to follow?

Be aware when you're looking at a game what the prices are to play the actual game, as opposed to the price of the models.
40k for example is a very expensive game to play, because the individual models are reasonable-to-expensive, but you need heaps of them. (ie, 10 space marines will cost ~1/10th of your army)
Warmachine is priced similarly model-for-model, but a force of comparative complexity to a 40k force consists of vastly less models. (10 fenblades will cost ~1/4 of your army)
Dust Warfare infantry models cost comparably to 40k models, but represent a larger portion of your force and are ready to play the instant they're unboxed.


If you are looking for a rule set, what do you want to get out of it? Do you want models to paint, that you can also game with, or a proper gaming rule set? What scale, setting, force size are you looking for?
Warmachine/Hordes is a popular large skirmish game. A typical beginning force might consist of a unit of 10 models, 3-4 larger warbeasts, a solo caster, and your warcaster.
Infinity, Malifaux, Necromunda tend to focus on smaller warbands but with the same kind of ideas. A force might be 10 individual models.
Dystopian Wars focusses on much smaller combat, where you control a naval fleet.
Dust Warfare might be the closest in battle 'scale' to 40k: 4-8 squads of infantry backed up by 2-4 vehicles and 1-3 heroes, in 28mm scale.
Mantic does Kings of War which competes in scale with fantasy.


There is tonnes out there, so we can't really recommend anything to you (beyond personal favourites) unless you say what it is that you're actually looking for!

If you want a company level 28mm game (like 40k) then Tomorrow's War is probably your best bet. The rulebook is a little tricky to work out, but it's an excellent and elegant system.

If, however, what you want is just a really, really inexpensive wargaming solution, then may I recommend MechaWar? The rules are £1, and our recommends miniatures range, from EM4 miniatures, provides a complete 9-point force (enough for a game lasting about 45 minutes) and a pack of d12s (essential) for less than £5. The minis are easy to assemble and paint , and with a handful of coins to act counters, you can be playing the game in minutes.

Of course, it is written with the 6-10mm game in mind, so your existing minis might not suit for the game. But, like I say, MaW is an entire game system for less than a box of space marines.

http://precinctomega.co.uk

R.

X-Wing is the second best miniatures game of all time, after 40k.

It's amazingly fun. I can't recommend it highly enough.

If you are considering Necromunda, I think I'd strongly recommend Infinity instead. It is everything Necromunda should have been, in my opinion. The rules can be a bit complex (but are freely available, check their forums) but if you start with "paintball" games you can ease your way into them.

Judge Dredd: Free rules, cheap models. Good alternative to Necromunda.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniatures/judge-dredd.html

Warlord Games covers a few different historical eras:

http://www.warlordgames.com/

Flames of War:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/

BattleTech: can be as simple or complex and as cheap or expensive as you want. Starter comes with 20 or so models and is about $50.

http://bg.battletech.com/

Infinity:

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en

Dystopian (noun) or Firestorm Armada:

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/

Mantic: the closest alternative to GW I know of.

http://www.manticgames.com/

X-Wing: cheap, pre-painted, easy rules. Great to hook friends on:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=174

Warmahordes: the rising star

http://privateerpress.com/

I'm pretty sure infinity is what you are looking for.

orkybenji wrote:
I'm pretty sure infinity is what you are looking for.

I would tend to agree with this .It ticks many of the OP's stated requirement boxes , its Sci-Fi , low model count so relatively cheap ,and proxying existing models is possible . Rules and profiles are also available FREE , books are optional .

Only box it doesnt quite tick is the laid back rules , the quick start rules are laid back enough ( also watch the tutorial vids on Youtube ) with the core game mechanics very good and nice to play .

I'd say infinity as well. However, if the rules set for 5th was too much of a barrier to casual play for him, then Infinity is like asking for a migraine.
The rules aren't difficult on a basic level, but they are lengthy and complex (or can be).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/504794.page

Check out the new Warzone.

 Monster Rain wrote:
X-Wing is the second best miniatures game of all time, after 40k.

You must use some really funky definition of "best"

My group broke X-wing by... the 5th game or so. Nobody feels like playing it after that.