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Recently, I was having a conversation with someone at the local gaming store in the area, and while I never game there, he told me that everybody is using a rather odd rules interpretation regarding Space Marine Drop Pods, going so far as to state that "all the tournaments are using it this way". The rule interpretation is that since Drop Pods count as moving cruising speed when they deepstrike, the unit inside can only snap fire after it disembarks. It appears to be a strange rule concoction using the firing from transport rules and deep strike rules.

My response was that only the weapons on the Drop Pod itself are subject to that firing restriction, because its the drop pod that deep strikes, not the unit inside it (they are just in the transport). By the transport rules, any unit that disembarks can move 6", and run or shoot as normal in the shooting phase, and there are no rules that would indicate otherwise.

The question is two-fold, first, who's interpretation is right, and second, has anyone attended a tourney that actually uses that rule interpretation for drop pods (and mycetic spores)? Its a small area, and I can't help but think that somebody who was bitter about the effectiveness of SM Drop Pods was just trying to muddy the waters.

I agree. The rules for arriving by Deep Strike state that the unit can fire normally, counting as moving. No requirement to Snap Fire.

Snap fire only applies to the pod itself. It would apply to the passengers only if they were somehow still inside the pod (an impossible feat considering the pod's forced disembarkation rules). Note also the the drop pod is the only non-flyer vehicle in 40k that allows passengers to disembark when moving cruising speed.

The Snap Shot restriction for Cruising Speed is very clearly written so as not to apply once they disembark:

"Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can only fire Snap Shots that turn."

While restrictions placed on passengers can sometimes continue outside the vehicle (see: Shaken/Stunned Transports) It is absolutely not the case with cruising speed's restriction on firing out of vehicles, so long as you have some means of disembarking, such as when deep striking, you can fire as normal for a disembarking unit.

The reason they are probably playing that way is because right now Drop pods are broken, they are the only thing that ignores the 50% rule, and its pretty much auto First blood, Linebreaker and potentially Slay the Warlord. They can steal away a turn of offensive from the enemy, and with the 50% deployed rule your opponent is pretty much taking it to the teeth and there is nothing he can do.

Its no more then a house rule though, tell them to stop playing lamehammer.

 Ravenous D wrote:
The reason they are probably playing that way is because right now Drop pods are broken, they are the only thing that ignores the 50% rule, and its pretty much auto First blood, Linebreaker and potentially Slay the Warlord. They can steal away a turn of offensive from the enemy, and with the 50% deployed rule your opponent is pretty much taking it to the teeth and there is nothing he can do.

Its no more then a house rule though, tell them to stop playing lamehammer.

Drop pods have been the same since time began.
They aren't broken, they are the same as any army that has lots of deep strike units.
A load of DW dropping twin-linked death into your lines turn one is just if not more effective.

 Ravenous D wrote:
The reason they are probably playing that way is because right now Drop pods are broken, they are the only thing that ignores the 50% rule, and its pretty much auto First blood, Linebreaker and potentially Slay the Warlord. They can steal away a turn of offensive from the enemy, and with the 50% deployed rule your opponent is pretty much taking it to the teeth and there is nothing he can do.

Its no more then a house rule though, tell them to stop playing lamehammer.

How do you figure they are broken, the only thing that ignores the 50% rule and is auto First Blood/Slay the Warlord?

Anything that has to start in reserves (and their contents if applicable) don't count towards the 50% rule.

The only thing "broken' about them is the possibility of them losing an automatic HP when they come down (not saying they do, not saying they don't, just that there is a possibility albeit unlikely to be ruled that way). Last guy I played who had an all DP army came down with his Warlord in one and lost his Warlord (giving up First Blood and Slay the Warlord in one fell swoop) to a Vindicare manning an ADL Quad-gun.

What he is saying is in 5ed people could just reserve against a drop pod army and basically alpha strike their turn 1 units. That made drop pod armies in 5ed less then ideal.

The 50% reserves rule means a drop pod army can alpha strike fairly well.

On topic, no tourny I know of has ruled that way. Must be a local thing.

 liturgies of blood wrote:


Drop pods have been the same since time began.

But the rules of the game have changed (twice?) since the introduction of Drop Pods, with consequences.

They aren't broken, they are the same as any army that has lots of deep strike units

Now that is simply not true. Not true at all.
Should you apply a seconds worth of thought to this, you will realize that.
.

A load of DW dropping twin-linked death into your lines turn one is just if not more effective.

Which isn't an example of "any" army.
The possibility that both are broken (which I don't for a second believe) also presents itself.

Tactically, you can screen against pods with cheaper units, reduce their options for drop zones, and limit or remove their ability to kill expensive stuff. The pod list is still going to be dropping part of its force into the teeth of all of your force, so castling with good positioning can enable a lethal counterpunch to the pod army.

In the competitive metagame, Pods also suffer from the presence of Grey Knights (both Warp Quake and Coteaz' I've Been Expecting You), as well as Interceptor units, which often steal First Blood from them. Podding can also be suicide against a strong assaulty army. So most folks are reluctant to commit completely to it, and it's a bit Rock/Paper/Scissors.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:


Drop pods have been the same since time began.

But the rules of the game have changed (twice?) since the introduction of Drop Pods, with consequences.

They aren't broken, they are the same as any army that has lots of deep strike units

Now that is simply not true. Not true at all.
Should you apply a seconds worth of thought to this, you will realize that.
.

A load of DW dropping twin-linked death into your lines turn one is just if not more effective.

Which isn't an example of "any" army.
The possibility that both are broken (which I don't for a second believe) also presents itself.

I like this mentality. "I don't like it so it must be broken." +1 internets to you sir.

Grots are great for this.

Cheap, numerous and best of all, green!

60 well spread grots (plus herders) can screen most of a deployment zone, pretty much, and really fries the niblets of those folk who like to drop in behind you and kill your favorite units

Apparently dropping in front of your army isn't as much 'fun'

Steelmage99 wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:


Drop pods have been the same since time began.

But the rules of the game have changed (twice?) since the introduction of Drop Pods, with consequences.

Fine, the drop pod is easier to kill with small arms. It gives up a kill point very easily, it can give up first blood against just as easily.
You're right, they've been fielded over 3 editions but they've been used the same and on the whole they're a paper vehicle that drops units where you want them with some disadvantages. The consequences have been minor.

They aren't broken, they are the same as any army that has lots of deep strike units

Now that is simply not true. Not true at all.
Should you apply a seconds worth of thought to this, you will realize that.

Well it's good that I can.
Daemons have been drop army, DA can build a DWA or skimmer heavy army, Necron flyer armies are just if not more devastating, DE can make use of the warpgate.
There are numerous builds that are competitive and pack a punch. Just because they aren't the exact same doesn't mean they are not of comparable worth and efficacy. If you play a DS/reserve army well then you can deal with it.
While you can build an all DP army it will cost you to have half of your army off the board for a large portion of the game and to pay for the transports.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
No example can be any army btw, that's why it's an example.

IamCaboose wrote:


I like this mentality. "I don't like it so it must be broken." +1 internets to you sir.

Pardon?

I am going to quote myself so you don't miss a very essential part of my post;

The possibility that both are broken (which I don't for a second believe) also presents itself.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

Nice polite replies.

I am sorry if I haven't made my position all too clear.

I am not arguing that Drop Pods are broken. I do not think they are.

I merely addressed the slight misrepresentation of the facts that that came with implying;

- That nothing about Drop Pods have changed, when the basic rules has indeed changed the way Drop Pods work.
- That Drop Pods are the equal of other Deep Strike units, when a DPs chances of Mishaps and when they enter from Reserve are very different.
- That the comparison with Deathwing Terminators (with implied reduced Scatter from Belial or Ravenwing) was flawed because such units doesn't exactly grow on trees and aren't representative of the normal state of affairs.

I got your point and it's ok, you don't need to talk down to me any more to get it across.

You take issue with my belief that drop pods have not changed functionally but have just asserted that because the rules changed they must have changed. Yes hull points happened but do drop pods fullfil a different roll on the board? No.
What has changed.so fundamentaly about this unit?


An example is all that the DW is. BA cant drop on top of you too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also where are you quoting me from?

1 quick question.

How do you stop sternguard in a drop pod from taking first blood?

Coteaz or interceptor.

Coteaz only has a 12" range on his interceptor.
Normal interceptor won't stop sternguard as 4 quad gun shots won't stop a pod of sternguard - at the most you might kill 2 or so. The Icarus lascannon will murder one of them.

Can anybody think of any other way to do it?

What army are you playing? Some armies have options such as warp quake to help them.

I play Eldar or Chaos.

I've got no grey knight allies.

I haven't read C:CSM that good, to have a suggestion. With Eldar though I think you are just out of luck. I can't think of anything that can consistently help you against this.

A large unit of Guardians or Cultists bubble-wrapping your better units combined with good deployment. 90% of beating a drop pod army is good deployment. Also try reserving some of your own things.

BlackSanguinor wrote:
A large unit of Guardians or Cultists bubble-wrapping your better units combined with good deployment. 90% of beating a drop pod army is good deployment. Also try reserving some of your own things.

This. If you have even one model in the Cultists or Guardian unit which is out of LOS, he can't be killed, so at worst you're then taking a LD7 (8 if it's the champ) morale test. Deploying them in cover is also good, if you can manage it, as if they use the ignore cover ammo, they're only wounding on a 3+.

Remember that a psyker arriving from Reserve can't cast blessings that turn, so they're not going to have Prescience the turn they land.

---------------

Also, regarding Pods, I would agree that Pods have fundamentally changed in each of the last three editions. In 4th they arrived by regular Reserves. In 5th they got to have half arrive turn 1, but enemies could full-Reserve against them, which largely screwed pods and mostly made them uncompetitive in tournaments. In 6th they're good again as enemies ususally can't full Reserve against them.

PredaKhaine wrote:
1 quick question.

How do you stop sternguard in a drop pod from taking first blood?

For my Eldar, I have a model with Crack Shot and Tank Hunter on a Quad Gun. I opt to shoot at the Drop Pod and always end up destroying it which gives me First Blood.

 Sarigar wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
1 quick question.

How do you stop sternguard in a drop pod from taking first blood?

For my Eldar, I have a model with Crack Shot and Tank Hunter on a Quad Gun. I opt to shoot at the Drop Pod and always end up destroying it which gives me First Blood.

This. A Fire Dragon Exarch with both powers manning a Quad-Gun is an effective way to steal away First Blood.

Thanks all - thats given me some things to consider