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Just some interesting tactical notes after playing Railhead Rumble this weekend. My vanilla marines went 5-1-1 over the two days and I ended up with Best General in the upper bracket. I played three Grey Knights (narrow loss to a Purifier army, wins over Jokerao Weaponsmith spam army and a double Dreadknight/Interceptor squad army), one Dark Angels (win), one Necron/BA alliance (win), Tzeentch Demons (max flamers/screamers---tie), and a Chaos Space Marine (Slannesh themed with blastmasters, helldrake, bikes and two maulerfiends).

My army consisted of the following:

Primary Detachment (Space Marines)
Bike Captain w/Artificer, TH, SS
8 Bikes w/ 2x plasma, fist
Tac Squad w/lascannon, plasma rifle, power sword, melta bombs
Dev Squad w/4x missiles
Thunderfire Cannon
Storm Talon w/ twin-lascannon
3x Attack Bikes w/multi-meltas

Allied Detachment (Space Wolves)
Rune Priest w/ Chooser of the Slain
10 Greyhunters, 2x Flamer, Rhino
10 Greyhunters, 2x Melta, Rhino

Fortifications
ADL w/Quad-gun

Things that worked well:
+Runepriest on Quad-Gun. The Chooser was placed on the best piece of terrain for overall LOS (played no army with infiltrators so it was never a tactical consideration) and shooting/intercepting with BS5 was a nice boost. He'd be attached to the las/plas tactical squad for protection and be located centrally in the fire base to use Divination to boost the effects of the TFC or Devs as needed. Using prescience to boost the Tac Squad when needed (after going to ground or when an assault is likely) helps it do a little more damage while staying survivable on an objective.

+Storm Talon w/lascannon in an anti-flyer role. The lascannon hits reliably since its twin-linked and at S9 has good odds at busting AV12 or putting a wound on FMCs. The money shot of the tournament for the talon was exploding the BA storm raven in the Necron/BA army I played and killing the 5 Death Company and DC Furiso in the ensuing crash. Its also a fairly reliable gamble as you'll get a penetrating hit ~12% of the time at AV12 after factoring in To Hit, Armor Penetration and 5+ cover. Against weaker flyers, the assault cannon/lascannon combo wrecks havoc. It also makes it a reliable ground armor killer with strafing run (BS5) and the speed to get to side/rear armor. Fairly priced at 140 so worth including at 1500 points and above.

+Greyhunters to support the bike spear head. Twenty scoring infantry with double specials is tough for most armies to deal with when also faced with MM bikes, regular bikes and TH/SS wielding captain. The lack of characters was never really an issue. Every now and then I really wished for LD9 in the squads, but not at the cost of the second special weapon. The sheer volume of fire put out by each squad allowed it reliably defend itself by attriting most threats to the point where the greyhunters could win the ensuing assault (especially if the GH could be supported with long range fires from the TFC/Devs).

+The overall speed in the list. The bikes, talons, and Rhinos give you alot of flexibility to reposition fire power against enemy threats and the range on the tac squad, devs, and TFC allow them to support the rest of the army from virtually any position. It gives you alot of options on which objectives to try for in game and to counter serious enemy threats that emerge after a wacky/unexpected turn of rolling (like your bike squad and captain running of the board on a failed morale test in shooting and a 17 inch fall back).

Things that didn't work well:
-The power sword and melta bombs on the tac squad sergeant. It was 20 points that never came into play. The problem is I'm not sure what else in the list to reinvest the points in. Every other unit functions smoothly as is and when needed, the sword and melta bombs can help swing a combat, especially against a lone mauler fiend or MC trying to take down the squad.

-The ADL walls. Having to place around pre-set terrain really limited placement opportunities and most of the time I preferred to roll regular armor or cover instead of going to ground. I always tried to place it in a position where I could hide an objective or two behind it and use the Tac Squad to hold them (hurray for combat squads). With all the other stuff in the list that maneuvers though, the ADL walls ended up being unnecessary dangerous terrain checks at times and boxing out some of my own maneuver lanes. The quad-gun is a vital piece for Heldrake defense but wall placement remains an issue since you can't run over existing terrain.

I'll gladly answer specific questions about my opponents lists and the different missions for each of them. Mostly just hoping other marine players can take what I learned and put it to use. I was a little sad that the general sentiment was that vanilla marines are now under-powered and that everyone expected to run over me based on match up alone.

Each power sword is another devastator iirc, so drop them and add more bodies? Keep the meltabombs however, they are good to have around. I would also keep the ADL, you just got unlucky with the fixed terrain.

Overall, I applaud you for making a successful competitive list without spamming everything. It looks fun to play, and there are useful things for not just marine generals. As a primarily guard player, you've given me some ideas for a possible ally that will fit with my mech army.

oooooo...I like how you used your RP. I'm running IG with SW ally (RP and two GH in pods and LF). The RP sits behind the ADL shooting lightening. I have a com relay just because I have three valks flying around so I really don't "need" flyer defense but putting the RP on it with a COS...that gets me thinking. I played CSM yesterday and he had huron and kharn and infiltrated 90% of his infantry to get as close as he could to bum rush me. If I only had a COS to hold them back...needless to say I'm squeezing one in now...

First off congratulations on your victory.

People who underestimate C:SM do so at their own peril.

They have some very good units which you smartly took. Bike Captain and Bike Squad are very good and cheaper than Ravenwing. Attack Bikes are money, so is the TFC. With Grey Hunters you had a good scoring core and like you said was very mobile.

The Stormtalon is very underrated and it has a turrent mounted Assault Cannon. Great for Zooming past Flyers and shooting them in the rear armor.

Only thing that I could critique is why you took SM Devs instead of Allied Long Fangs. Long Fangs are better in every respect and for the same price you could of got an extra ML.

Glad to hear your thoughts on C:SM. I also was at the rumble with C:SM (I was the all biker list) my thunderfire a were pretty good for most of my games and attracted a lot of attention, which was fine since they only cost 100 points.

I agree there is no reason to take C:Sm dev's if you are using SW, long fangs are cheaper and give you split fire.

Glocknall wrote:First off congratulations on your victory.

People who underestimate C:SM do so at their own peril.

They have some very good units which you smartly took. Bike Captain and Bike Squad are very good and cheaper than Ravenwing. Attack Bikes are money, so is the TFC. With Grey Hunters you had a good scoring core and like you said was very mobile.

The Stormtalon is very underrated and it has a turrent mounted Assault Cannon. Great for Zooming past Flyers and shooting them in the rear armor.

Only thing that I could critique is why you took SM Devs instead of Allied Long Fangs. Long Fangs are better in every respect and for the same price you could of got an extra ML.

Pony_law wrote:Glad to hear your thoughts on C:SM. I also was at the rumble with C:SM (I was the all biker list) my thunderfire a were pretty good for most of my games and attracted a lot of attention, which was fine since they only cost 100 points.

I agree there is no reason to take C:Sm dev's if you are using SW, long fangs are cheaper and give you split fire.

The reason for the Devs is mostly modeling right now. All my SW allies are modeled as Deathwatch marines, including a converted librarian. I don't have a matching Deathwatch themed missile squad yet and didn't want to have confusion of having models from the same codex looking different. I'll look at adjusting to squeeze them in. The split fire wouldn't really have come into play this weekend. Target priority was generally simple and required massed missile launchers anyway. But the extra missile shot would have been huge.

"Storm Talon w/lascannon in an anti-flyer role. The lascannon hits reliably since its twin-linked and at S9 has good odds at busting AV12 or putting a wound on FMCs. The money shot of the tournament for the talon was exploding the BA storm raven in the Necron/BA army I played and killing the 5 Death Company and DC Furiso in the ensuing crash. Its also a fairly reliable gamble as you'll get a penetrating hit ~12% of the time at AV12 after factoring in To Hit, Armor Penetration and 5+ cover. Against weaker flyers, the assault cannon/lascannon combo wrecks havoc. It also makes it a reliable ground armor killer with strafing run (BS5) and the speed to get to side/rear armor. Fairly priced at 140 so worth including at 1500 points and above."

This. This is why the Stormraven sucks as as transport. Your opponent list right then and there.

As a DA player I like that a high mobility list did so well, but I'm left wondering what type of DA you faced in the tourney. Was he/she running a "wing" army, mix army, or something new and weird?

how many points is this?

The railhead rumble was 1850 points.

I was the Nid player there and wanted to face your list at some point, just never did. Congrats.

Congratulations!!

Vanilla SM FTW!!

Congrats from me as well (the Double Dread Knight List Player "Chris")... Forgot to mention you are very skilled player that use this list like a swiss army knife....What was the prize support for the winners...I had to burn out?

Hey congrats OP! Glad to hear vanilla marine players doing well. I've been trumpeting their awesomeness since 6th dropped. They are a Swiss Army knife that will bleed you dry if you don't respect em!

More props for a fellow C:SM player.

My C:SM went 3-0 in a recent 1500pt friendly/competitive (play to win but no blatant D-Baggery/Cheese) tourney and have been holding it down against everything from GK to Nids.

We aren't flashy and we aren't fancy, but we get the job done.

Keep holding it down for C:SM's everywhere.

andystache wrote:
As a DA player I like that a high mobility list did so well, but I'm left wondering what type of DA you faced in the tourney. Was he/she running a "wing" army, mix army, or something new and weird?

The DA list was fairly balanced. He had a Ravenwing squad w/2x melta, a Black Knight Squad, two Deathwing squads equipped with mostly TH/SS and a few LCs, two devastator squads with a lascannon/missile launcher mix, three tactical squads with plasma cannons, Azrael, and a command squad with the banner of devestation. The bikes scout moved up and dropped the deathwing into my left flank on turn one and Azrael and the tactical squads started the march up the middle towards salvo range. Turn one night fight really hampered his devastator fire and it allowed me to cripple his flank attack before his fire base came into play. I ended up being able to defeat him in detail by beating off the RW/DW attack before turning long range fires onto the tactical squad.

Thanks everyone for the congrats. It was a great tournament to play in.

PanzerLeader wrote:
The power sword and melta bombs on the tac squad sergeant. It was 20 points that never came into play. The problem is I'm not sure what else in the list to reinvest the points in. Every other unit functions smoothly as is and when needed, the sword and melta bombs can help swing a combat, especially against a lone mauler fiend or MC trying to take down the squad.

I'd take that 20 pts (or from somewhere else), to put standards on the Grey Hunters. It's a serious force multiplier, I've had GHs take down units they have no business fighting under the standard. Most recently, at the Battle for Stone River tournament on Saturday, 6 GHs under Standard and Counter Attack won combat against two Tac Marine combat squads and a guard blob, and ended up winning me the game.

The 20 points you get from cutting the meltabombs and power sword could go to putting a combi-whatever on the the tac sarge, giving you an extra special weapon shot on the tacs. With the rest of the rest of the points, maybe putting the 2+ poison rounds on the captain? Anyway, thanks for posting your list. It has given me lots if ideas.

PanzerLeader wrote:

andystache wrote:
As a DA player I like that a high mobility list did so well, but I'm left wondering what type of DA you faced in the tourney. Was he/she running a "wing" army, mix army, or something new and weird?

The DA list was fairly balanced. He had a Ravenwing squad w/2x melta, a Black Knight Squad, two Deathwing squads equipped with mostly TH/SS and a few LCs, two devastator squads with a lascannon/missile launcher mix, three tactical squads with plasma cannons, Azrael, and a command squad with the banner of devestation. The bikes scout moved up and dropped the deathwing into my left flank on turn one and Azrael and the tactical squads started the march up the middle towards salvo range. Turn one night fight really hampered his devastator fire and it allowed me to cripple his flank attack before his fire base came into play. I ended up being able to defeat him in detail by beating off the RW/DW attack before turning long range fires onto the tactical squad.

Thanks everyone for the congrats. It was a great tournament to play in.

Thanks for the army list and congratulations as I seem to have forgotten that!