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Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

News agencies are reporting that the Vice President of Venezuela announced that Hugo Chavez is dead.




This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/03/05 22:11:14


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






BBC just announced it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-21679053

Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez has died, his vice-president has announced.

Mr Chavez had not appeared in public since he returned to Venezuela last month after cancer treatment in Cuba.

An emotional Nicolas Maduro made the announcement on Tuesday evening, flanked by leading Venezuelan political and military leaders.

Earlier, he said the 58-year-old Venezuelan leader had a new, severe respiratory infection and had entered "his most difficult hours".

One of the most visible, vocal and controversial leaders in Latin America, the former army paratrooper won the presidency in 1998 and had most recently won another six-year presidential term in October 2012.

Last May, he said he had recovered from an unspecified cancer, after undergoing surgery and chemotherapy in 2011 and a further operation in February 2012.

However, in December 2012, he announced he needed further cancer surgery in Cuba, and named his Vice-President, Nicolas Maduro, as his preferred successor should the need arise.

Mr Chavez remained out of public view, finally returning to Venezuela in February.

 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

O snap. I had not heard this.

My mother will be very sad about this. She really liked him initially, though towards the end there he had inched so close to dictatorship that even she had started to lose faith.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 22:31:47


 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Meh, the VP probably knocked him off The cancer being a convenient scapegoat.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Nah, there were stories coming out for about a week about his increasingly poor health. I saw one yesterday about his difficulty breathing. He's been very sick for a long time, and mortally ill for at least a few months.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Seattle WA

 Ouze wrote:
O snap. I had not heard this.

My mother will be very sad about this. She really liked him initially, though towards the end there he had inched so close to dictatorship that even she had started to lose faith.


My grandmother was also a fan.

Go figure.


See more on Know Your Meme 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

The t-shirt model?

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

That's Che Guevara.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA



I thought his face looked weird.

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

And nothing of value was lost.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

A tyrant that is known and predictable is usually favored by our leaders over a democratically elected leader that we can't predict and/or influence.

We will see what happens.
   
Made in gb
Ian Pickstock




Nottingham

He was a good man who did a lot of good for a lot of people.

Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.

Na-na-na-naaaaa.

Hey Jude. 
   
Made in gb
Tough Traitorous Guardsman




London, England

that's very sad. he was a great man. viva socialism!

www.leadmess.com - my painting and modelling blog! 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Manchester UK

Glad he's dead. One less despot. We didn't even have to invade!

 Cheesecat wrote:
 purplefood wrote:
I find myself agreeing with Albatross far too often these days...

I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.


 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Okay, so the male version of "Cougar" is now officially "Albatross".
 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

... Why is the picture in the OP a cat?

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
... Why is the picture in the OP a cat?


Because this is one of those every-so-often threads where people come to revel in the death of a public figure . I mean, sure, literally 100% of every other thread like this has been heavily moderated or locked (or both) because of comments like "and nothing of value was lost", but, much like states who pass legislation banning video games to minors, this one's gonna be different!


TL;DR the appropriate response to the death of a democratically elected head of state is a picture of a cat dancing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 00:43:48


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Mr. Ouze... I concur.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

I see...

Thank you Ouze

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
- d-usa 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

There's a pawty go'ing on in Miami:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/03/05/3268693/in-south-florida-venezuelans-react.html#storylink=cpy

In the South Florida enclaves crowded with Venezuelans who fled President Hugo Chávez’s regime, Chávez’s death Tuesday afternoon prompted spontaneous gatherings in familiar places. Local politicians weighed in offering predictions. And television and radio stations ramped up their news coverage, in what could be a preview of how Miami reacts to the eventual death of Fidel Castro.

Several news crews broadcast live in the early evening from Doral, home to scores of Venezuelans and a Venezuelan-born mayor. A celebratory mood spread at El Arepazo 2, a popular Venezuelan family restaurant, where more than 300 people gathered.

They waved Venezuelan flags and cheered “ Venezuela presente” — Venezuela is present. Some men sat outside playing dominoes. Others danced joropo, a traditional Venezuelan dance. No one seemed to mind to wait an hour for an arepa.

It was a far different gathering than the one five months ago, when somber crowds filled with supporters of opposition candidate Henrique Capriles Radonski watched presidential election returns showing a victorious Chávez.

“We are not celebrating someone’s death,” Mary LaBarca, whose grandmother was dancing outside the restaurant, said in Spanish. “We are celebrating freedom.”

Doral Mayor Luigi Boria, Florida’s first Venezuelan-born mayor, called for unity in his native country.

A robust crowd spilled into the street at a sister restaurant of the same name, El Arepazo 2, in Weston, another city with a high concentration of Venezuelans.

The eatery, inside a strip plaza off Weston Road, began filling up with customers, some of them women with baby strollers, others men drinking Polar beer — a Venezuelan brand. A TV news crew conducted interviews. Later, the crowd spilled out into the street.

News of Chávez’s death was welcomed with cheers and hope for a more Democratic future. Customers gathered around a flat screen TV tuned to Telemundo’s live broadcast of the news from Venezuela. Others waited in line for arepas, their gazes fixed on the TV.

Daniela Calzadilla and her sister, Corina, toasted Chávez’s death with Polar beer in styrofoam cups. The women hoisted a small Venezuelan flag.

“We hope this is the path to return our democracy and that hopefully we can have the same country we once had,” said Daniela, who moved from Caracas five years ago. She left because crime in the Venezuelan capital skyrocketed under Chávez’s leadership, she said, and career opportunities dwindled.

Corina Calzadilla, who moved to Weston a decade ago, said she felt bad for Chávez’s children. “The death of a parent is painful,” she said.

The sisters said they plan to return to Venezuela to vote in new presidential elections.

At Doggi’s, a Venezuelan fast-food restaurant in The Roads neighborhood of Miami, Nayana Nava took back-to-back calls on her cell phone. “Everyone is calling me, as if it were my birthday,” she said. “Thank God. Finally. We’re free.”

Nava, 39, is the Miami Beach coordinator for the Venezuelan opposition group Mesa de la Unidad Democrática, which in October mobilized bus loads of Venezuelan expats to New Orleans to vote in their country’s election after the Miami consulate was shut down.

Nava, who has lived in the United States for 17 years, said the group will be organizing another get-out-the-vote campaign in a matter of days for the election to replace Chávez.

In Key Biscayne, Antonio Braschi, owner of the Costa Med restaurant, said he began receiving calls from clients congratulating him on the news of Chávez’s death.

Braschi, who moved from Venezuela six years ago, said he was relieved when he heard the news but has mixed emotions about celebrating any death.

“Dictator or not, he was a person,” Braschi said.

The El Arepazo restaurants, sprinkled across South Florida, hosted the gatherings much like Versailles and La Carreta do for Cubans. News crews flocked to Versailles on Tuesday evening, apparently expecting a crowd. They found only a handful of customers, including one man who played to the cameras by popping open a bottle of champagne and shouting, “ Viva Cuba libre!” — long live a free Cuba.

At an El Arepazo restaurant in Brickell, about 20 Venezuelans gathered, including co-workers from NBC Universal who printed out the Venezuelan flag when they heard of Chávez’s death.

“It’s going to be a big transition,” said Sofia Bustillos, a 30-year-old paralegal who left Venezuela in 2003 due to economic instability and insecurity. “Like all changes, it’s going to be painful and a learning experience for everybody. I believe the majority of the community here is relieved.”

Back in Weston, Betsy Grimaldo-Toro, a 47-year-old from Davie, played cuatro — a small, four-stringed guitar — and her husband, 53-year-old Raúl Toro, shook maracas. At one point, they sang El Burrito Sabanero (The Donkey from the Plains), a Christmas carol.

Though he sang a happy tune, Toro said he did not have much hope that his home country will change.

“I don’t wish bad things for Venezuela,” he said. “But it will be very difficult for chavismo to leave.”

But Patricia Pesti, who said she moved to Weston from Venezuela a year ago, disagreed with Toro. “We feel like it’s a new beginning,” she said. “We see a light for a better future far ahead, not tomorrow.”

At a nearby table, Oscar Pérez, 31, said he was celebrating “the birth of a new country.”

“There’s so much happiness,” said Pérez, who moved to Weston from Caracas the year Chávez took power. “We’ve been waiting 14 years. I’ve seen how he ruined the country. It’s anarchy.”

Pérez’s brother, Armando, 29, said his joy was tempered with concern about reaction among pro-Chávez supporters, known as chavistas, back home.

“This is the first step to big change,” he said. “I hope nothing bad happens, and that ignorant people don’t resort to violence.”

Pérez said he looks forward to new elections in Venezuela.

And though Chávez built a political base in Venezuela, Armando Pérez said he doesn’t believe the movement Chávez created will survive without its populist and charismatic leader.

“ Chavismo without Chavez doesn’t exist,” he said.

Though the Pérez brothers have lived nearly half their lives in South Florida, they have friends and relatives back in Venezuela.

Carlos Marino, 63, watched the TV with the Perezes. All three are car salesman for the nearby Rick Case dealership.

They broke into occasional song, including popular tunes Viva Venezuela and Yo Me Quedo en Venezuela (I’m staying in Venezuela).

Some customers were just hearing the news.

“ Es verdad,” Marino said happily. It’s true.

“I never wish anyone death,” he continued, “but in this case I did. He poisoned the Caribbean.”

Marino lives in Miami Lakes. He moved to south Florida 15 year ago, he said, because he did not like Chávez.

“I have a new life here,” he said, “but I always wish happiness and liberty for my people.”

Marino said the first person he called when hearing the news was his uncle in Margarita, an island off the northern coast of Venezuela. His uncle was screaming with joy, Marino said.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Well, his absence will go a long way towards Venezuela undoing some of his injustices. First they should roll back that referendum he put forward a few years back allowing indefinite election, and maybe... maybe let some of those judges he had thrown in jail for opposing him go, return some of the companies he socialized without recompense? Stuff like that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 01:43:00


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





For some reason Hugo Chavez just has to be a hero or a dire villain. People can't just, you know, see a guy who addressed a number of considerable problems in his country, but did so through political actions that were often very dubious and a threat to the democracy in his own country. Just accept that politics, especially in a country as troubled as Venezuala, produces very complex political figures.

I mean, Hungary is steadily collapsing from a democracy into a one party state, and I've heard not one fething thing about it here from any of the right wingers. But Chavez, oh his abuse of the democratic systems , that bothers you all so very much that you celebrate the man's death.

And at the same time I remember pretty clearly how hypersensitive the left wing was to anything Bush did in office, everything he did other than swinging a golf club was a step towards the collapse of American democracy. But Chavez actually dismantles democratic institutions and he remains a hero.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 03:16:42


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




SE Michigan

 sebster wrote:
For some reason Hugo Chavez just has to be a hero or a dire villain. People can't just, you know, see a guy who addressed a number of considerable problems in his country, but did so through political actions that were often very dubious and a threat to the democracy in his own country. Just accept that politics, especially in a country as troubled as Venezuala, produces very complex political figures.

Excellent way to put it, and a far better way to examine non-first world democracies without immediately labeling them "terrorists" or "dictators"

I mean, Hungary is steadily collapsing from a democracy into a one party state, and I've heard not one fething thing about it here from any of the right wingers.


The majority of my fellow countrymen cannot find this country on a map, nor are they likely to be aware that it exists.....


www.mi40k.com for pickup games and tournaments
3000+


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 sebster wrote:
For some reason Hugo Chavez just has to be a hero or a dire villain. People can't just, you know, see a guy who addressed a number of considerable problems in his country, but did so through political actions that were often very dubious and a threat to the democracy in his own country. Just accept that politics, especially in a country as troubled as Venezuala, produces very complex political figures.

I mean, Hungary is steadily collapsing from a democracy into a one party state, and I've heard not one fething thing about it here from any of the right wingers. But Chavez, oh his abuse of the democratic systems , that bothers you all so very much that you celebrate the man's death.

And at the same time I remember pretty clearly how hypersensitive the left wing was to anything Bush did in office, everything he did other than swinging a golf club was a step towards the collapse of American democracy. But Chavez actually dismantles democratic institutions and he remains a hero.

So... do you want to address how/why he amassed at least 2 billion dollars of personal wealth?

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 whembly wrote:
So... do you want to address how/why he amassed at least 2 billion dollars of personal wealth?


Corruption obviously.

Now are you going to tell me you are exactly as bothered by the corruption of the other leaders of various almost-but-not-quite-democracies and sort-of-but-not-really-democracies, and have spent as much time reading about them as you have about Chavez.

If not, why do you think that might be? And what do you think the effect of that might be on your understanding of the world?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/06 05:41:48


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 sebster wrote:
 whembly wrote:
So... do you want to address how/why he amassed at least 2 billion dollars of personal wealth?


Corruption obviously.

Yep. He also jailed many politicians/judges throughout the years...

Now are you going to tell me you are exactly as bothered by the corruption of the other leaders of various almost-but-not-quite-democracies and sort-of-but-not-really-democracies, and have spent as much time reading about them as you have about Chavez.

Of course... have you not been paying attention to me? They're all crooks!

If not, why do you think that might be? And what do you think the effect of that might be on your understanding of the world?

? eh?


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

 sebster wrote:
 whembly wrote:
So... do you want to address how/why he amassed at least 2 billion dollars of personal wealth?


Corruption obviously.

Now are you going to tell me you are exactly as bothered by the corruption of the other leaders of various almost-but-not-quite-democracies and sort-of-but-not-really-democracies, and have spent as much time reading about them as you have about Chavez.

If not, why do you think that might be? And what do you think the effect of that might be on your understanding of the world?


I'll admit, I don't really care to much about Hungary. They aren't in my back yard, don't control a significant portion of the worlds known oil, and they don't frequently call my President the Devil.

Plus, there isn't a signficant portion of looney's in the US screaming about how Hungaries consolidating power base is really just an expression of true freedom, like they did with Chavez.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 whembly wrote:
Yep. He also jailed many politicians/judges throughout the years...


All of which is what life is like in places around the world with poor governments. And yet all of that goes on with barely a whisper in the media. But Chavez gets special treatment.

I mean, you should look into what goes on in all the 'stan countries, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, all of which I probably spelled wrong. Despite that you not only see silence on their abuses, but they're allies with direct military ties to the US (Uzbekistan were until like 2006, when the US finally pulled out because of what was pretty close to ethnic cleansing).

Of course... have you not been paying attention to me? They're all crooks!


That's not what it is at all. It goes on in some places, and in other places barely at all. It isn't a product of people in one place being a crook, while in another place they people are all paragons of virtue. It's a product of how the system operates. In some places it works to reward and encourage theft and thuggery, in other places it works to resist that.

In Zimbabwe right now there's a process of reconciliation and reform taking place. There the factions opposed to Mugabe are attempting an incredible thing, instead of just deposing Mugabe, punishing him and assuming they'll just become a modern, functioning state with great human rights because of it, they're looking at the practices and cultures that saw to Mugabe's rise to power. They're working with Mugabe and his government to build a new system, and a new culture that might, one day, give Zimbabwe the stable, honest and lawful government it deserves.

But by all means, pick out Chavez as the villain of the day, celebrate his death. That thing by his brother about his enemies giving him cancer was pretty funny.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 djones520 wrote:
Plus, there isn't a signficant portion of looney's in the US screaming about how Hungaries consolidating power base is really just an expression of true freedom, like they did with Chavez.


And there it is. Culture war. Someone pretends he's a hero, so I have to pretend he's a villain.

Those lefties are doing the same as you, you know. The right is saying he's a monster, so they buy in to the narrative that he's a hero. Everyone shouts at everyone and they all walk away thinking the other side is ridiculous, with no idea they're just as ridiculous.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/06 06:25:56


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Was he not a monster? Are you arguing that he isn't? Or are you just objecting to my use of the term "looney's" to describe people who saw him as a paragon of democracy?

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 djones520 wrote:
Was he not a monster? Are you arguing that he isn't? Or are you just objecting to my use of the term "looney's" to describe people who saw him as a paragon of democracy?


He was what the politics of Venezuala produced.

And he is no more a monster than many others, and yet we see this strange focus on him over all these others, including dictators that the US deals with as a matter of course.

And most of the reason that he is picked out over all the rest is because, as you said, because the other side of politics makes claims about him. 'He's a hero/villain' based entirely on an abstract American political ideals, and not on any kind of understanding about where Chavez actually sits in world politics and in the politics of his own country.

feth it, who cares, though. He's dead now. Someone else will come along, and if he makes left wing claims the conservatives will find his human rights abuses awful, and if he makes right wing claims then the socialists will find his human rights abuses awful.

Or you'll pick some other South American country to have the same argument about. You've done it all before.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
 
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