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For those who don't follow British politics, UKIP (United Kingdom Independance Party) are a political party in the UK. They have no MPs at present but are ahead of the Lib Dems in the polls. More importantly, they usually draw votes away from Conservatives. In a recent by-election they came second to the Lib Dems in a conservative marginal seat.

Their main policy is to remove the UK from the European Union, hence their mainstream appeal. All of the main political parties in the UK are pro-EU, but a large proportion are anti-EU, hence UKIP have a natural policy base. More generally they are socially very conservative, they oppose gay marriage and immigration, and are in favour of the free market and greater defence spending.

What does dakka think? Are they a flash in the pan? Or will we soon see Chancellor Farage on our tv screens?

So are they are our Republicans?

Well if they want to leave the EU they can't be all bad can they?

Snark aside I have no idea, your politics don't get over here as often as what the Queen is wearing today.

They sit in the space between Tories and the BNP...

I'm really not a fan.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
So are they are our Republicans?

Kinda. Old men and rich people. But our mainstream politics is a lot more liberal than in the US, so UKIP by comparison seem a lot more extreme.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Well if they want to leave the EU they can't be all bad can they?

Snark aside I have no idea, your politics don't get over here as often as what the Queen is wearing today.

Your fiscal cliff made our entire country's sphincter twitch. That gak just makes democracy look bad

 BryllCream wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Well if they want to leave the EU they can't be all bad can they?

Snark aside I have no idea, your politics don't get over here as often as what the Queen is wearing today.

Your fiscal cliff made our entire country's sphincter twitch. That gak just makes democracy look bad

Why? Is the UK feeding out our federal trough?

 BryllCream wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
So are they are our Republicans?

Kinda. Old men and rich people. But our mainstream politics is a lot more liberal than in the US, so UKIP by comparison seem a lot more extreme.

Sounds like the GOP to me!

It should be pointed out that UKIP supports civil partnership between same-sex couples as a matter of policy.

Not that I vote for them or anything, just setting the record straight. I'm a true-blue Tory modernist after all, and we might very well end up in coalition with them at some point in the not-too-distant future.. I prefer Boris to Dave, mind. Who doesn't these days?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They're also not only composed of old men and rich people. They have gained significant traction amongst traditional working class communities, a naturally socially conservative constituency.

I don't really know why leaving the EU would be a good thing.

The only thing we really have in common with them is trade. What's stopping us just being part of a free-trade agreement that benefits both sides?

personally i think they're a bunch of borderline racists, who are attempting to play at a sensible middle-ground that they can't achieve.

whilst there are positives and negatives about being in europe, and i can take or leave it either way myself, i think their core vote is a) people who don't like the foreigns but don't want to vote for a racist party; and b) conservative voters who don't want to vote conservative because they hate the coalition and the centrist position that the tories are trying to get. all in all, it's for right-wingers who don't like the BNP because they're too working class, and don't like thr Tories because the Tories are bound by treaties, legal obligations, and trying to get a majority vote next election round. i'd avoid them like the plague.

incidentally, UKIP are very popular in lincolnshire, a very poor rural part of the UK. on many farms you can see massive UKIP billboards. most of the same landowners who want us out of europe also employ huge amounts of illegal and semi-legal european immigrant labour, putting huge amounts of local people out of work. you can't have it both ways, to my mind. but that's just me, wanting a fair deal for british workers.

 Albatross wrote:
It should be pointed out that UKIP supports civil partnership between same-sex couples as a matter of policy.

Is that a comparison with the GOP or a general indication that socially speaking they're not really up to speed?

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/2863-ukip-response-to-the-governments-consultation-on-samesex-marriage

 Albatross wrote:
...I prefer Boris to Dave, mind. Who doesn't these days?

Are you making plans for Nigel?

 Albatross wrote:
The only thing we really have in common with them is trade. What's stopping us just being part of a free-trade agreement that benefits both sides?

I don't think that leaving the EU would be as catastrophic as many predict, but this wouldn't really work. Essentially Europe would decide the ins and out of that trade treaty, we would have no choice. They could, for example, levy a duty on financial services, which would kill off the city. Or restrict our fishing rights, or make it harder for our farmers to sell their produce.

Also we'd be leaving the Germans alone with those dubious Southern Europeans seems a bit unfair.

I want more Europe, a united states of Europe, then as one.nation we could show the world how to run there lives again, as the pre eminent super.power...second thoughts...been there done that, lets take over the moon!!

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
They sit in the space between Tories and the BNP...

Not really, aside from a desire to restirct immigration UKIP and BNP have virtually nothing in common. UKIP are a right wing libertarian party that favors low tax and free markets, whereas the BNP are old school socialists that want to massively increase public spending and nationalize utilities. It’s a rather telling that BNP have picked up most of their votes in traditional Labour constituencies, whereas UKIP’s support tend to come from across the political spectrum.

Even their motivations on the immigration are totally different. UKIP want to restrict immigration (not stop it) because they believe that open door immigration is damaging to local communities, puts massive pressure on public services and drives down wages. They would implement a system similar to Australia or Canada. The BNP want to halt it because they don’t like foreigners.

I’m not a UKIP supporter but I’ve seen no evidence that they are racist, it seems like rather rotten smear to me.

UK immigration is restricted by a points system similar to the Australian one. The difference is that EU citizens get a bye.

 George Spiggott wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
It should be pointed out that UKIP supports civil partnership between same-sex couples as a matter of policy.

Is that a comparison with the GOP or a general indication that socially speaking they're not really up to speed?

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/2863-ukip-response-to-the-governments-consultation-on-samesex-marriage

No, I was making the general point that they aren't opposed to gay people becoming civil partners, just opposed to to gay people getting married in the religious sense. It's an important distinction.

Are you making plans for Nigel?

Well, if young Nigel says he's happy...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
UK immigration is restricted by a points system similar to the Australian one. The difference is that EU citizens get a bye.

I don't think so. Unskilled labour from outside of Europe is still pouring in, most of it legally.

 BryllCream wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
The only thing we really have in common with them is trade. What's stopping us just being part of a free-trade agreement that benefits both sides?

I don't think that leaving the EU would be as catastrophic as many predict, but this wouldn't really work.

It works for other countries, why not us?

Essentially Europe would decide the ins and out of that trade treaty, we would have no choice.

That's not strictly true. The UK is one of Europe's biggest markets. We buy more from them than we sell, iirc.

They could, for example, levy a duty on financial services, which would kill off the city.

They are trying to do that anyway. If we where outside of the EU that would put us in a stronger position, not a weaker one, as business would migrate to London.

Or restrict our fishing rights, or make it harder for our farmers to sell their produce.

Which is already happening.

Also we'd be leaving the Germans alone with those dubious Southern Europeans seems a bit unfair.

Hmm. To who?

I have little time for them,they are the BNP as envisioned by Daily Express readers, little more than small minded bigots with dillusions of grandure. Interveiws with grass roots UKIP supporters are always quite illuminating and can be summed up as "damn foreigners are ruining this great nation".

They are indirectly quite a good thing though, given that they are seriously eroding the tory vote. However a Tory/UKIP coalition government would be the stuff of nightmares.

 Palindrome wrote:

They are indirectly quite a good thing though, given that they are seriously eroding the tory vote.

Which is a good thing because... What, you want Labour back? You really think Milliband and Balls have what it takes to run the country?

Well they couldn't be worse than Cameron and Osbourne.

 daddyorchips wrote:
personally i think they're a bunch of borderline racists, who are attempting to play at a sensible middle-ground that they can't achieve.

whilst there are positives and negatives about being in europe, and i can take or leave it either way myself, i think their core vote is a) people who don't like the foreigns but don't want to vote for a racist party; and b) conservative voters who don't want to vote conservative because they hate the coalition and the centrist position that the tories are trying to get. all in all, it's for right-wingers who don't like the BNP because they're too working class, and don't like thr Tories because the Tories are bound by treaties, legal obligations, and trying to get a majority vote next election round. i'd avoid them like the plague.

incidentally, UKIP are very popular in lincolnshire, a very poor rural part of the UK. on many farms you can see massive UKIP billboards. most of the same landowners who want us out of europe also employ huge amounts of illegal and semi-legal european immigrant labour, putting huge amounts of local people out of work. you can't have it both ways, to my mind. but that's just me, wanting a fair deal for british workers.

How can european immigrant labour be illigal or semi-legal? (Unless your talking about non EU european immigrants, but I don't see many Icelandic farm workers)

I think UKIP is a protest party, they have very limited policies and I don't think they have any real chance of any power as they stand at the moment.

However I am pro-EU in genaral. I do have a problem with the balance of imigration and think that the UK needs a little more control that the rest of the EU. The reason being to do with language. Most europian countrys learn English as a scond/third language, meaning that the UK is top choice for many people when wanting to work overseas. Even if UK schools taught languages better (which I am not convinced is needed given that people learn English as a second language because it is the lingua franca of global trade and politics, not because schools in other countrys are somehow more cosmopolitan) we would still see a massive imbalance in numbers.

UKIP have some good ideas, but some very poor ones with no grounding in reality. I suspect if they did get in to power you would see the same kind of back peddaling (probably even worse) as the Lib dems did when they realised that they would have to deliver on the grand promises they made when they thought they would never actualy have to pay for them. The bigest problem with UKIP is the same as the Torys. They live in the 1950's.

 Palindrome wrote:
Well they couldn't be worse than Cameron and Osbourne.

Hmm, our missing gold and insane debt that the Tories have had to struggle with since they took power would want to have words with you.

The sad truth is I don't really trust any of those fethers in parliament, but when I look at Milliband I just think.. he'd roll over for anyone who speaks to him in a harsh tone, we'd be so sold up the river to Europe we would be unable to sit for fifty years.

At this point I want out of the EU, red tape, corruption from the EU Parliament, and a general financial ticking time bomb from several smaller EU states, including some more that will be joining soon is something we really don't want to be a part of.
UKIP seems a sad sort mind, the only positive message for me is leaving the EU, but the rest is pointless drivel.

I just wish one of these parties had the guts to give an actual referendum on leaving the EU mind, of course none of them will because they all know the result.
There is in no positive message that will overturn years of meddling and stupid laws we have had to deal with from that corrupt house of Europe. Give the UK public a referendum and the answer will be 'leave' and in my mind that is a solid fact.

So who was serving the people again, meh, still follow Billy Connelly's mantra, 'the desire to be a politician, should ban you for life for ever being one'

My major bugbear is that half of my family is outside of Britain.

Fortunately, they're in the EEC rather than the EU, so it affects me less.

 LuciusAR wrote:
don’t like foreigners.

I’m not a UKIP supporter but I’ve seen no evidence that they are racist, it seems like rather rotten smear to me.

I don't think any (sensible) mainstream political party runs on an out and out policy of racisms.

But there's been several high up UKIP members who've said some pretty ..... wacky .... things -- Julia Gasper, Steve Moxon ( sp ?), Roger Helmer, Geoffrey Clark etc .

I appreciate every party has their fair share of extremists, but UKIP does seem to have a rather unfortunate amount of them in senior positions. Give Nigel his due though, he comes across well, some of his speeches in the Euro. parliament have been very good, and he has dealt with or removed "undesirables" when they're exposed. Although I think he looked incredibly hypocritical over the firing of Olly Neville when you look at his support of Helmer.

.. and he's still much, much better than Kilroy-Silk.

And they are ( AFAIK) the only party with an out and out ban on ex BNP members "helping"


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/07/nigel-farage-party-eccentrics-ukip

Farage rubs me up the wrong way anyway, every time I hear him speak all I get is 'smug git' and the other day you'd have thought UKIP had won the bloody seat.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Farage rubs me up the wrong way anyway, every time I hear him speak all I get is 'smug git' and the other day you'd have thought UKIP had won the bloody seat.

I saw him on Question Time a couple of months ago and even though I don’t necessarily agree with him he was a breath of fresh air compared to the other politicians on the panel.

Now George Galloway, there is a smug git.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

Hmm, our missing gold and insane debt that the Tories have had to struggle with since they took power would want to have words with you.

I'm quite sure that the current government will leave its share of turds as well.

With the 5 star movement gaining such a massive following in Italy I wonder if the same thing will happen here by the next election. Uk politics are certainly stale and self serving enough, even if not quite on the same level of Italy.

Albatross wrote:
It works for other countries, why not us?

It doesn't. The Norwegians and the Swiss both lose out because they're not in the EU.

Albatross wrote:
That's not strictly true. The UK is one of Europe's biggest markets. We buy more from them than we sell, iirc.

We can buy their goods fine, but if they want to buy ours then our products will have to conform to EU standards. Which is moot since we export naff all actual products anyway.

Albatross wrote:
They are trying to do that anyway. If we where outside of the EU that would put us in a stronger position, not a weaker one, as business would migrate to London.

They are trying to, any we are trying to stop them. If we were not in the EU they would simply do it. Isn't that obvious? Business will not "migrate" to London, as London is the only place in the EU where banking reaches insane heights. Pension investors in Frankfurt aren't going to emigrate to London any time soon.

Albatross wrote:
Which is already happening.

No it's not. British farmers are free to sell their beef, meat and cheese to Europe. Were we to leave, the French would almost definitely push the EU into slapping a tariff on our agricultural produce. Coupled with the loss of the CAP subsidy and you're looking at the end of agriculture in Britain.

Albatross wrote:
Hmm. To who?

I don't know if the Germans, Dutch et al would be as keen on the EU without the UK. More likely northern Europe would form their own trading bloc, without rubbish southern states dragging them down.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Hmm, our missing gold and insane debt that the Tories have had to struggle with since they took power would want to have words with you.

Right, no. Labour didn't cause the debt crisis, the recession did.

Focus on what labour did do wrong, don't just recite Tory rhetoric as if it's your own opinion - your words were written by top tory spin doctors.