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Hello Dakka!

I'm just about done my DA army (started from the Dark Vengence box set) and I am looking to start working on the CSM part of the box set (for my wife and using a color scheme picked by her). There for the army will have a look of a mix of Slaanesh and Tzench. After an impulse buy of a helturkey and a recomended buy of a demon prince I am trying to figure out what else to put with this army. After talking with my wife she was thinking about maybe doing an allied army with demons. Below will be some general ideas on what I was thinking about putting together. Please let me know if this idea has any synergy to it.

Chaos Space Marines (Primary)

** HQ **
Demon Prince of Slaanesh with wings, power armor, black mace, and possibly Mastery Level 2 and maybe a gift that increases strength by 1.
- I figure that the mark of Slaanesh giving rending and increased movement to the demon prince would help with getting into combat and help bypass more saves and help blow up tanks.

Chaos Lord of Slaanesh not sure what upgrades to give here other than the Mark of Slaanesh. I'm really just looking to make Noise Marines Troops for a little tougher troop choice. Suggested comments on how to kit him out would be appreciated.

** Troops **
10x Cultists with flamer, mark of slaanesh, and Icon of Excess
10x Cultists with flamer, mark of slaanesh, and Icon of Excess
- two relatively cheep troop choices with feel no pain to camp on objectives or out of sight for late game objective snagging.

Noise marines I was thinking a squad of 10 maybe with a rhino to move them around and give them a nice steel coffin. I mean extra protection.
Also thinking about the icon of Excess with these guys as well. Feel no pain is almost a must for them I feel.

** Fast Attack **
Heldrake with baleflamer
- Gotta take it cause I have the model and I like the look of it.

** Elite **
Suggestions welcome I have the chosen that came with Dark Vengence. Toss on the Mark of Slaanesh and see what happens?

** Heavy Support **
The wife wants to pick up the Forgefiend/Maulerfiend kit because she likes the look of the model. From what I've read the Maulerfiend is garbage so I have talked her into the Forgefiend build. So this will take up one slot. I was also thinking about a squad of 3 Obliterators with the Mark of Tzench only because of the two marks that work well with this paint scheme Tzench will do them more good.

Chaos Daemons (Allies)
** HQ **
As far as the HQs for Daemons go (well the entire army really) I am admittedly a little lost. Especially with the release of the new codex as I have not even seen it yet to skim through at my FLGS so what I am putting here is completely based on what I have read here on Dakka. And these are ideas that I have for what kinda makes sense for this themed army (again this is being put together for my wife who is more into aestetics than competitive play).

I would look into taking either the Keeper of Secrets (as that would allow another demon prince in the heavy slot I'm told) or a Herald either on foot or mounted (if they can be mounted like a seeker that would be ideal for what I have in mind).

** Troops **
1 maxed out squad of daemonettes with appropriate sergent equivalent upgrade for the HQ to run with on foot. Daemonettes have high initiative, fairly decent amount of attacks and rending. Not a unit to sneeze at or really ignore.

** Fast Attack **
1 maxed out squad of seekers of Slaanesh again with appropriate sergent equivalent upgrade (if available) for the mounted HQ to run with. Again high initiative and even better mobility with rending makes this unit a huge threat to the opponents flank and rear army.

** Elite **
1 squad of 6-8 screamers of Tzench. They may not be as good as they used to be, but they are still enough of a threat that the opponent cannot just ignore them.

** Heavy Support **
The only heavy support I know of for Daemons is the Demon Prince again this would be a Demon Prince of Slaanesh kitted out for maximum havoc. Other suggetions for heavy support are welcome.

Well, there is what I am contemplating for an allied CSM/CD army. Please comment and criticize as the only two things that are written in stone about this army are the Initial Demon Prince of Slaanesh and Heldrake. The meta for my area is usually around 2000 points. I would also love to hear what people would do at 1750 points as well.

Thanks in advance for your time!

BayneMor

I like the theme you're trying to go with, it can be a pretty bright looking army on the battlefield so will be a nice change from all the grimdarkness

The Daemon prince has to roll on a table for the gift of mutation and can't straight up pick any of them, rending is useless because if the daemon prince is attacking a vehicle it will be smashing with 4 attacks plus d6 more attacks so whatever vehicle it hits will be dead. I personally don't take Mastery Levels on Daemon Princes. I find that with the black mace it is good enough and doesn't need to be more expensive, but to each their own.

I find chaos lords to be a tax but it never hurts to put a power weapon or other equipment on your warlord, with MoS lord i suggest Terminator armour, power fist, and lightning claw. Cultists cannot take any icons, and for the Noise marines a group of 10 with 2 blast masters and Icon of excess makes for perfect objective campers or since this list will probably have 2 squads of 10 cultists give them a rhino to go grab another objective and camp it. As for the Heldrake when you play your wife you will learn to fear this thing

Elites are all very underwhelming in the chaos dex but taking a "cheap" 3 man terminator squad with lightning claws or various other power weapons and MoS and Icon of excess may make for a great bodygaurd unit for the Lord.

Now Daemons go and read through this codex, there is so much different about Daemons that it will be hard to explain over the internet without you reading the codex first.

but for allies I personally suggest taking a herald instead of the greater daemon they can be a great modifier for the unit that they join with. The only problem with heralds though is you can't take the daemon prince as heavy support if you don't first have a greater daemon dedicated to the same god in the hq slot first. For my heavy support though I like taking soulgrinders because they can perform a great support role. have a read through the codex first before settling for what allies you want.

Now with that in mind I think your ideas for what the list will look like seems pretty solid, slannesh and tzeentch aren't the most competitive gods but I think your wife will have a lot of fun playing this army.

I know! I love the way the heldrake came out when I painted it, but I know I'm going to loath playing against it! I'll try and get some decent pictures of the demon prince and heldrake up once I finish the base for the heldrake.

The other option I was thinking of for the Lord was to put it on a bike (or steed of slaanesh debating the +1 attack vs +1 Toughness) with some chaos bikers. Taking a Lightning Claw and combi-plasma, and aura of dark glory. Giving the squad similar gear and Icon of Excess so the Lord gets FNP.

I could pull of the lord for about 140 points (more if I wanted a gift of mutation before the game begins) for either the terminator armor with a pair of lightning claws or on a bike/steed with a lightning claw and combi weapon. Both escort units are about the same also for 4-5 bodies. I'm thinking I like the biker option better as it is a bit more mobile than the Terminator option.

Thanks for the input. I look forward to what others have to say on this subject.

After a bit of research and review I have come up with the following CSM/CD list primarily Slaanesh. I am looking to bring it down to 2000 points as that is what the local meta usually plays. I am looking for advice on what to trim out of the list.

**** Chaos Space Marines ****
** HQ **
Demon Prince with Wings, Power Armor, Mark of Slaanesh, Black Mace 260 points
Chaos Lord of Slaanesh with Mark of Slaanesh, one Lightning Claw, Combi-Melta 105 points

** Troops **
10x Cultist with Mark of Slaanesh and Flamer 65 points
10x Cultist with Mark of Slaanesh and Flamer 65 points
9x Noise Marine with Close Combat weapon, Veteran of the Long War, Icon of Excess 211 points

** Dedictated Transport **
Chaos Rhino with Dirge Caster and Destroyer Blades 55 points

** Fast Attack **
Heldrake with Bale Flamer 170 points

** Elite **
6x Chosen with Mark of Slaanesh, Veteran of the Long War, 1x Pair of Lightning Claws, 1x Power Fist, 1x Power Axe, 1x Power Maul 190 points
1x Helbrute with Combi-Bolter 110 points

** Heavy Support **
3x Obliterator with Mark of Tzeench and Veteran of the Long War 231 points
1x Forgefiend with 2x Reaper Autocannon and additional Ectoplasma Cannon 200 points


**** Chaos Daemons ****
** HQ **
Herold of Slaanesh with Exalted Loci and Greater reward 110 points (?)

** Troops **
20x Damonettes of Slaanesh with Alluress and Instrument 195 points

** Fast Attack **
15x Seeker of Slaanesh with Heartseeker and Icon 195 points

** Elite **
6x Fiends of Slaanesh 210 points

Cultists stay back on home objectives or get held in reserve to come in later and capture home objectives. Noise Marines follow the lords lead and ride in their mobile coffin to try and assault a squishy target on turn 3 or 4 (using rhino for cover once they disembark and moving the rhino out of the way to assault (one can hope right?). If the rhino is not toast I should be able to use it to deny overwatch of the unit I am charging ensuring I get everyone to the party in one piece. Demon prince is there mostly to attract fire and smash low/mid AV vehicles or wreck infantry. Chosen and Helbrute are mainly in the list because they came with the Dark Vengence starter set and make for some interesting target saturation. The chaos allies will hopefully use their fast movement of the seekers and fiends to engage into combat early. The Herald and Demonettes use the icon to deep strike near the unit to join the frey the next turn or hit a different target.

Again let me know what you would keep and what you would junk and why. All comments and criticism are welcome.

BayneMor

As an option: I would like to replace your CSM Demon Prince and the two cultists. 360 points to play with...

See if we can fit in a 2nd Herald of Slaanesh on a Seeker. It would be nice to lead both units with some buff heralds.

The other would be to add a 10 man Noise Mariine squad fully outfitted with Sonic Blasters and Blastmasters... 260 points minimum. The ignore cover is great for killing those skulking attackers...

DAaddict wrote:
As an option: I would like to replace your CSM Demon Prince and the two cultists. 360 points to play with...

See if we can fit in a 2nd Herald of Slaanesh on a Seeker. It would be nice to lead both units with some buff heralds.

The other would be to add a 10 man Noise Mariine squad fully outfitted with Sonic Blasters and Blastmasters... 260 points minimum. The ignore cover is great for killing those skulking attackers...

I thought you couldn't use the multiple heralds for one HQ slot with an allied list and single FOC (sorry forgot to mention that the meta where I am doesn't use the double FOC for 2000 points). I haven't seen the exact wording on how the heralds work with the new codex, just that for a primary army you can do 4 for 1 HQ from what I've read here on Dakka.

My bad. Yes you are limited to one. Too bad.

I would really like to get rid of the squishy cultists for that Noise Marine squad though.

The one way you could manage it is to lose the Herald of Slaanesh and swich the Demon Prince to be your Demon HQ.

Is there a points/rules difference with the Chaos Daemon's Demon Prince over the Chaos Space Marine Demon Prince? I'm also not sure about giving up the rerolls to the seekers/daemonettes from the herald. I could see dropping a squad of cultists and the chosen to get the points. That would still give me 3 scoring units from CSM and one from CD if I rework some of the other upgrades and such.

215 for a Chaos Demon Prince with Warpforged Armor and Wings. You lose the Black Mace but for 30 points you could switch it to a Hellforged Weapon you get +1 S and a variable bonus of D3 to A, WS and I. Plus you have options to make him a spellcaster and can still give him a Lesser or Greater Reward.

Isn't the default greater reward for Slaanesh some sort of shooty attack at the demon princes strength or better? And what's the AP on the Hellforged weapon?

On a side note, if the Demon Prince doesn't have the black mace, I could give that to the Chaos Lord instead of the lightning claws. Though I'm not sure if it is a good buy for the Chaos Lord in that group. Too bad CSM can't take storm shields.

 BayneMor wrote:
Isn't the default greater reward for Slaanesh some sort of shooty attack at the demon princes strength or better? And what's the AP on the Hellforged weapon?

On a side note, if the Demon Prince doesn't have the black mace, I could give that to the Chaos Lord instead of the lightning claws. Though I'm not sure if it is a good buy for the Chaos Lord in that group. Too bad CSM can't take storm shields.

There is no AP on the hellforged weapon by default, but since Daemon Princes are MCs they swing any weapon at AP2.

I wouldn't bother with the black mace on a normal lord because then it becomes AP4 since he isn't an MC. Good loadout for a lord is lightning claw + power fist. You get the extra attack since they are both specialist weapons, but you can choose which to strike with depending on what you attack.

 Rakarsis wrote:

 BayneMor wrote:
Isn't the default greater reward for Slaanesh some sort of shooty attack at the demon princes strength or better? And what's the AP on the Hellforged weapon?

On a side note, if the Demon Prince doesn't have the black mace, I could give that to the Chaos Lord instead of the lightning claws. Though I'm not sure if it is a good buy for the Chaos Lord in that group. Too bad CSM can't take storm shields.

There is no AP on the hellforged weapon by default, but since Daemon Princes are MCs they swing any weapon at AP2.

I wouldn't bother with the black mace on a normal lord because then it becomes AP4 since he isn't an MC. Good loadout for a lord is lightning claw + power fist. You get the extra attack since they are both specialist weapons, but you can choose which to strike with depending on what you attack.

Could have sworn specialist weapons had to be matched pairs. I'll have to look reread that in the BRB when I get home from work today. Thanks for the input. What do you think about maybe using the Murder Sword instead? I am going to be using the HQ model from the Dark Vengence set as the Chaos Lord. I mean the model does have a huge frakken sword that it is modeled with.

From personal experience, that unit of 6 chosen from the DV box kitted out WYSWIG blows. Too many points sunk into 1 wound and toughness 4 without enough extra bodies to protect the weapons.

Chosen really perform the same roll as the last incarnation of the codex - getting a lot of melta/plasma in one unit. I think you have the points wrong on that unit anyway. (I have run that unit with the IoE and a Rhino and it comes out to 275 without VotLW, 287 with vets IIRC)

If you are going CC chosen they need to be a 8 or 9 man squad to go with your lord with an IoE and ride around in a land raider.

Marking the cultists is a waste IMO. Especially slaanesh. If you are running a slaaneshi army, unmarked cultists are the way to go.

The CSM DPs are better than the Demon Codex DPs. They have access to the black mace and don't have the Instability crutch (yes there are things out there that can and will beat your DP in a round of combat, the kinds of things you would normally throw the DP into combat with) Marking the DP as slaanesh is good for fleet, but with your theme, think about going Tzeentch for the bonus to the invul save.

That being said, I have been toying with the idea of going with a Lord and Sorc from the CSM codex and the demon codex DP with a base unit of demonettes and a sizable unit of seekers. Giving the Sorc level 3 with two roles on the slaaneshi table gives you a damn good chance to get symphony of pain, coupled with Noise Marines that can be a deadly combo.

I would give the Herald a mount and run her with the seekers instead of the demonettes, the Seekers are more likely to be in combat first and if you are giving her the exalted locus and greater reward you want her in combat ASAP. Also, get a Rapturous standard on whatever unit you have her in.

I always kit my forgefeind out with triple ecto.. the AP2 is too good to pass up in 6e and if you have the drake you have your anti air right there, plus a FMC in the DP that is two vector strikes on enemy flyers. In a friendly setting that is plenty of anti-air. The auto-cannons are decent, but they aren't skyfire and the ecto will out perform the auto cannons shooting against MEQ every time. If you want to run the cannons, run it without the extra ecto cannon so it has an identified role and there isn't a dilemma about what to shoot at with it.

One last thing. Maulerfeinds are not bad. They are fantastic if used properly. If you are going to use one, its a good idea to have a second, and use them for what they are designed to do: take out armor. They are also a great way to get an early assault off.. 12 inch move ignoring cover then the charge.. if you go second you may very well get of a turn 1 charge, at the very least turn 2.

As promised here are a couple of pictures of the finished demon prince and heldrake.



Thanks again for the input. As of right now we have decided to go with the Herald of Slaanesh on foot as it is the least expensive kit to start this CD allies.