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mercer wrote:How are the Princes doing for you? I have been thinking of ditching some Horrors in my list and giving them biomancy for a lol.

So far, they're doing pretty well. Slow&Purposeful isn't really hurting, although it would be nice to have the chance to sweeping advance sometimes, I'm facing more units that can't be swept than that can, so forcing them to run isn't the worst thing in the world. Shrouding means I can get them a 2+ save sometimes, and a 3+ easily. The mobility is nice.

The psychic stuff is hit or miss. I still have a hard time with the idea that any generic librarian can be better at casting spells than these creatures of the warp.

Makutsu wrote:
Nurlgings can't take objectives due to swarm rule so you'd only have 1 scoring unit...

You don't say. (I actually think I mentioned that too. ) The point is, I have to take two troop choices, and I'm kind of underwhelmed with daemon troops, especially nurgle ones. Nurglings get me a mandatory troop for only 45 points.

Take the Portaglyph always especially in low point game where you then can chip off points for troops, and use the spawned ones as scoring instead.

It's hard to chip points off troops when you're required to take 10 models as a base. And, who exactly should carry this portaglyph? I can see spending 30 points for it, but I can't see losing one of my major gifts as they're the ones that tend to keep my expensive monstrous creatures alive (In spite of always seeming to roll at least one 'warp blast')

I'd presonally just deepstrike a unit of plaguebearers into enemy lines and then use the icon to guide the GUO to deekstrike without scattering.
Not sure how good drones are as I don't have the models yet...

Yup, that's kinda the plan. Drones aren't amazing at anything except taking damage. The plaguebringer, though, can be pretty cool. 4 swings with an AP2 master-crafted weapon that always wounds on 3+ isn't that horrible.

Daemon Princes haven't been very good for me so far.
They do soak a lot of fire but don't really do much besides that because mine barely got into CC, and they can be instagibbed by any MC.

Why are you fighting the things that can instagibb you alone? You can fly, so you usually get to pick the fights. If you're worried about enemy MCs, hit them with both princes at once. 12 S6 AP2 attacks at I8 (plus whatever benefits you're getting from powers and/or gifts) should be enough to take out most MCs. My princes tagteamed a dreadknight in one game, dropping him before he swung.

Good list, however as said you should really bump up your troop choices. I find a large PB squad with FnP herald can really do some damage/tank shooting/deny charges and just be annoying. I personally love the drones, however im not sure if i would use 7 of them? maybe drop one of them for some more PB's in that squad, then something else for a 10 man PB squad for dropping in and taking the objectives. Otherwise looks good IMO.

Well. I played the 'Ard List (see last page) against Space Wolves last night. First loss with the new dex after about 20 games and it was via a tabling . C'est la vie. The table ended up being terrain heavy, with about 70% of the table effectively counting as difficult terrain due to the terrain pieces we had chosen (lots of fenced in roads and elevated blocks of foam and a few big ruins). I had a quarter of my deployment zone walled off by an undesirable piece of terrain, too, but that was largely mitigated by the fact that I got first turn. The Wolves player was using ~14 prescienced Long Fangs w/ missile launchers to toss out twinlinked small blasts, and had four double flamer units in drop pods. It was an absolute and total slaughter, with my Seekers biting it turn 2 to Long Fangs dug in between ruins, a large block of impassable terrain, and an Aegis Defense line. (They killed me in assault before I could even strike back--how ignominious!) Had the game ended turn 5 I would have tied my opponent in VP with only a single Daemonette left on the table to claim an objective. (He had placed his objective way far away from his long fangs in a place he couldn't even get to by the end of the game. That one was a head scratcher and he was cursing himself about it at the end.) It continued to turn 6, however, and my lone, valiant Daemonette finally bought the farm after passing her first 3 invulns against four extremely lucky shots from Drop Pods.

All in all it was a fun game despite the outcome. My friend's wolves list is about the worst possible scenario there is for my 'Ard list, and the terrain was absolutely atrocious for a semi-swarmy army like Daemonette spam. I really felt my lack of assault grenades this time around. The 30 Seekers died as quickly as I expected, and were not able to do any damage at all due to their inability to go first when charging through terrain and the Wolves' two attacks/3 attacks w/ counter charge. I think I'm going to have to learn to just love the warp storm table (read: deal with it) and drop Fateweaver in my swarm list. I'm thinking two units of 20 Seekers might be a bit better, and my Daemonettes did not perform nearly as well in 15 man units as they did when I was running them in 20 man units, so any points left after that will go to bulking them up. I'll post an altered list up tonight.

To get the taste of defeat out of my mouth after my stomping from the Space Wolves I grabbed my Big Stompy Monsters list (last page, same post as my 'Ard List) and played a Big Guns Never Tire mission against termie heavy Grey Knights. Won 9pts to 6 and might very well have tabled him if the game had gone on longer.

 Makutsu wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Here's what I've been playing around with for the Adepticon Friendly event (FW allowed, 1500 points). It's a nurgle theme, so don't tell me to add fateweaver or seekers. ;p


Options 1:
HQ: Great Unclean One
2x Major Gifts
Psyker Level 2

Troop: 3 nurglings
Troop: 14 plague bearers w/ Instrument

Fast attack: 7 plague drones, plaguebringer w/ minor gift, rot proboscis, icon
Fast Attack: FW Blight Drone (125 points, does not count as daemon of nurgle)

Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle
Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, psychic 2, wings, mark of nurgle

I haven't played a huge number of test games, but I've not lost one yet, and have beat ravenwing, and shooty GK though never by large margins. It's very light on scoring units though. I typically deploy the plaguedrone unit with princes behind them, and they can get in the opponent's face turn 2, as well as getting the GUO off the drone icon (2 rolls to get him in on turn 2, because I roll for the instrument bearers first). The drones can soak a huge amount of fire and still deliver the champion and icon where I want them.

But, there's a lot that can go wrong. If the big daemons don't roll the good gifts and powers they're not that hard to kill, and there's just the one scoring unit.

In order to shore up some of these problems, I'd cut the blight drone for an extra unit of plague bearers. It deprives me of most of my shooting, including the large template, but means i'm not totally dependent on having that one scoring unit survive everything. That leaves a few points leftover, which will probably go to buying more mastery levels for the big guys, increasing the chances to get iron arm. Also, picking up a minor gift for some of the guys which will probably be a weapon. (and definitely if I roll Hellfire Gaze as a major)

GUO (2x major gift, 1 lesser, level 3 psyker)
11 plague bearers (99)
10 plague bearers w/ instrument (100)
7 Drones (as above) (359)
2 daemon princes (flight, 2 major, 1 minor gift, level 3 psyker)

Not sure if those changes are worth it though, having the blight drone is kinda fun.

Nurlgings can't take objectives due to swarm rule so you'd only have 1 scoring unit...
Take the Portaglyph always especially in low point game where you then can chip off points for troops, and use the spawned ones as scoring instead.

I'd presonally just deepstrike a unit of plaguebearers into enemy lines and then use the icon to guide the GUO to deekstrike without scattering.
Not sure how good drones are as I don't have the models yet...

Daemon Princes haven't been very good for me so far.
They do soak a lot of fire but don't really do much besides that because mine barely got into CC, and they can be instagibbed by any MC.

QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings. I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc... I am not sure what the blight drone does. It really comes down to what you like more a blight drone or a daemon prince. One of them would have to become cheaper so you can bring in more troops. As stated the portalglyph might help with this but should not be overtly relied upon.

As for the comment about Daemon princes above. I have found the tzeentch prince to be more of my liking. He is more resilient as a whole and if you get the right powers on these guys it can be a long day for your opponent. The standard daemon prince can charge an orc mob and your opponent will need 5's to hit and 6's to wound. Last game I played with this guy I got 4+ fnp. So my Dprince was 3+ 5++ 4+++. Even though I didnt get to re-roll the FnP it still made me as hard to kill as they get.

You don't say. (I actually think I mentioned that too. ) The point is, I have to take two troop choices, and I'm kind of underwhelmed with daemon troops, especially nurgle ones. Nurglings get me a mandatory troop for only 45 points.

You said you were light on scoring units, and then mentioned later 1 unit, but whatever.
Getting that single unit blasted off is pretty much gameover.

It's hard to chip points off troops when you're required to take 10 models as a base. And, who exactly should carry this portaglyph? I can see spending 30 points for it, but I can't see losing one of my major gifts as they're the ones that tend to keep my expensive monstrous creatures alive (In spite of always seeming to roll at least one 'warp blast')

Blightdrone I have no idea what it does, so it depends on you if you want to chip it off or not.
Chip off 1 Plague drone.

Yeah at 1500 points bringing Soul Grinders seem to be a better idea too and much cheaper.
2 AV13 with 5++, shrugs off 1-3 results, and 2+ - 3+ cover save makes it pretty hard to get rid of.

Yup, that's kinda the plan. Drones aren't amazing at anything except taking damage. The plaguebringer, though, can be pretty cool. 4 swings with an AP2 master-crafted weapon that always wounds on 3+ isn't that horrible.

Plague drones seem pretty strong though looking at their profile.

Why are you fighting the things that can instagibb you alone? You can fly, so you usually get to pick the fights. If you're worried about enemy MCs, hit them with both princes at once. 12 S6 AP2 attacks at I8 (plus whatever benefits you're getting from powers and/or gifts) should be enough to take out most MCs. My princes tagteamed a dreadknight in one game, dropping him before he swung.

I didn't he grounded me and charged me, the other one I was fighting with another unit while he charged me.
And they were wraithlords so it was kinda tough, maybe should have used smash.
But if the MC has any chance to swing back chances are you're going to lost a Daemon Prince to it.

They aren't bad but just a bit costly.

Tomb King wrote:
QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of nurglings either anymore. They're too easily killed without eternal warrior anymore. As for the competitive environment thing, I don't think that's an issue. I'm planning to play this at the Adepticon "Friendly", which shouldn't be a hardcore competitive scene, and is more for thematic players who feel strongly about having units of sevens in their Nurgle armies, and so on...

I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc...

Paladins are scary because of their anti-daemon instant-kill tricks. Normal terminators might not be so bad. On average, the unit will put out 6 wounds, and the champion will put out 2 more at AP2. Against strike-last weapons, they're not S10, so I've got 3 wounds and an invul, and against power weapon ones, I'm still T5, with those wounds. My champion should be as scary for the terminators as they are to me.

I am not sure what the blight drone does. It really comes down to what you like more a blight drone or a daemon prince.

Blight Drone: Flyer, AV12/11/10, can hover, BS2, twin-linked autocannon and soul-grinder mouth shooting options (it can use the S8 AP3 big blast and the S6AP4 template)

As for the comment about Daemon princes above. I have found the tzeentch prince to be more of my liking. He is more resilient as a whole and if you get the right powers on these guys it can be a long day for your opponent. The standard daemon prince can charge an orc mob and your opponent will need 5's to hit and 6's to wound. Last game I played with this guy I got 4+ fnp. So my Dprince was 3+ 5++ 4+++. Even though I didnt get to re-roll the FnP it still made me as hard to kill as they get.

Yeah, and he can sweeping advance the small handful of units in the game that are still susceptible to that. But the tzeentch prince isn't nurgle, right

Makutsu wrote:
You said you were light on scoring units, and then mentioned later 1 unit, but whatever.
Getting that single unit blasted off is pretty much gameover.

You'd think so, but you can kill enemy units and contest too. I've been remarkably consistent getting first blood so far, and the GUO is not an easy warlord to kill (and can drop into your opponent's deployment zone for linebreaker too)

Yeah at 1500 points bringing Soul Grinders seem to be a better idea too and much cheaper.

I agree, soulgrinders look nice. Unfortunately, the event is next weekend, and my soul grinders aren't painted to go with my nurgle stuff (last edition, they didn't follow any god).

I didn't he grounded me and charged me, the other one I was fighting with another unit while he charged me.

I'm not sure that flying is the optimal way to run princes in this list, unless I can get somewhere completely out of line-of-sight. With Shrouded, I'm okay advancing behind the plague drones and getting the good cover save (and hopefully there's 4+ somewhere too). The "fall out of the sky" tests have been brutal when I've tried flying, and the S9 hit that results has put more wounds on me than my opponent's shooting. Since they only need to hit to trigger that, I've shied away from flying, at least in the early turns when there are a lot of guns, and saved flying for later, when there's not so much trying to knock me out of the air and I need to cross the field to the objective.

 Redbeard wrote:
I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc...

Aha, i find the opposite here. IMO plaguedrones with your loadout are pretty good aginst elite 2+ guys. Since probiscis is not actually a "weapon/sword", it does not replace an aetherblade on your unit champ giving him effectively a 3+ rerollable AP2 sword, auto-killing 2-3 of those guys per turn. Put on top of that HoW attacks (could get lucky) and everyone elses poison rerolls, they should deal with these sorts of small elite squads in about 1-2 combat phases tops. This is yet another way they can be pain in the . Did i mention all their fancy power weapons dont do much and wound on 5's, or with hammers/fists they will hit last, probably meaning their dead

Okay, so my new try at an 'Ard List:

'Ard List
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Mount: 60pts
6*20 Daemonettes, 3 units w/ Icons: 1110pts
3*10 Seekers w/ Icons: 390pts
Chaos Sorcerer: 60pts
18 Chaos Cultists: 82pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Comms: 70pts
1999+1pts

I dropped Fateweaver because I felt he was dragging this particular list down, then retooled my army to the above. This list is about as close to a swarm as you're going to get without sacrificing all potential of ever hurting a Land Raider. I have 120 Daemonettes who can deepstrike in a daisy chain down a flank (w/ one unit outflanking due to Herald) or on top of three separate Seekers units, giving me four potential threat vectors to drop down on. The army will start with everything but the Obliterators doing its best to hide out of line of sight of the enemy. The cultists will generally hide next to the Comms, giving me re-rolls for my reserves, while the Oblits and Sorcerer (rolling telepathy for Invis for one of the better maledictions, hopefully) will try to pop vehicles/do as much damage as possible until they die. The Seekers units will charge up as far as possible first turn to give me extra angles of attack. With their small unit sizes I should be able to take enough advantage of terrain to get one or two icons close to the enemy. If all doesn't go to pot first turn I ought to get 80 to 100 Daemonettes dropping right next to my enemy second turn with the other 20 to 40 dropping down the turn after. Even if it does go to pot and none of my Seekers make it forward I still have the outflanking Daemonette unit to start my deepstrike chain off of.

14/14/14 spam does concern me a bit but, given the nature of those lists, I think that I'll still have a decent chance of winning via scenario due to the 138 scoring troops I put onto the table.

What do you guys think? Stronger or weaker than my previous list?

 Redbeard wrote:

Tomb King wrote:
QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of nurglings either anymore. They're too easily killed without eternal warrior anymore. As for the competitive environment thing, I don't think that's an issue. I'm planning to play this at the Adepticon "Friendly", which shouldn't be a hardcore competitive scene, and is more for thematic players who feel strongly about having units of sevens in their Nurgle armies, and so on...

I like the plague drones as they can be a real pain in the . Just keep them away from elite infantry like terminators and paladins etc...

Paladins are scary because of their anti-daemon instant-kill tricks. Normal terminators might not be so bad. On average, the unit will put out 6 wounds, and the champion will put out 2 more at AP2. Against strike-last weapons, they're not S10, so I've got 3 wounds and an invul, and against power weapon ones, I'm still T5, with those wounds. My champion should be as scary for the terminators as they are to me.

I am not sure what the blight drone does. It really comes down to what you like more a blight drone or a daemon prince.

Blight Drone: Flyer, AV12/11/10, can hover, BS2, twin-linked autocannon and soul-grinder mouth shooting options (it can use the S8 AP3 big blast and the S6AP4 template)

As for the comment about Daemon princes above. I have found the tzeentch prince to be more of my liking. He is more resilient as a whole and if you get the right powers on these guys it can be a long day for your opponent. The standard daemon prince can charge an orc mob and your opponent will need 5's to hit and 6's to wound. Last game I played with this guy I got 4+ fnp. So my Dprince was 3+ 5++ 4+++. Even though I didnt get to re-roll the FnP it still made me as hard to kill as they get.

Yeah, and he can sweeping advance the small handful of units in the game that are still susceptible to that. But the tzeentch prince isn't nurgle, right

Makutsu wrote:
You said you were light on scoring units, and then mentioned later 1 unit, but whatever.
Getting that single unit blasted off is pretty much gameover.

You'd think so, but you can kill enemy units and contest too. I've been remarkably consistent getting first blood so far, and the GUO is not an easy warlord to kill (and can drop into your opponent's deployment zone for linebreaker too)

Yeah at 1500 points bringing Soul Grinders seem to be a better idea too and much cheaper.

I agree, soulgrinders look nice. Unfortunately, the event is next weekend, and my soul grinders aren't painted to go with my nurgle stuff (last edition, they didn't follow any god).

I didn't he grounded me and charged me, the other one I was fighting with another unit while he charged me.

I'm not sure that flying is the optimal way to run princes in this list, unless I can get somewhere completely out of line-of-sight. With Shrouded, I'm okay advancing behind the plague drones and getting the good cover save (and hopefully there's 4+ somewhere too). The "fall out of the sky" tests have been brutal when I've tried flying, and the S9 hit that results has put more wounds on me than my opponent's shooting. Since they only need to hit to trigger that, I've shied away from flying, at least in the early turns when there are a lot of guns, and saved flying for later, when there's not so much trying to knock me out of the air and I need to cross the field to the objective.

I recognized it was a fluffy list. Fluffy list can still be competitive. As for the prince comments those were directed @ Makutsu. The blight drone seems interesting. The best part is it is cheap for what it provides. If you have to drop one I would drop one of the princes and give the drone a whirl. Your list could use some shooting and the template weapon can get your opponent off of some objectives. Plus as you stated you like running it and that is the focus when running fluffy list is it not?

Yeah, I agree that Tzeentch Daemon Princes have a much better survival than the other ones since you get a reroll for Armor saves as well.

zamnath wrote:
Okay, so my new try at an 'Ard List:

'Ard List
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Mount: 60pts
6*20 Daemonettes, 3 units w/ Icons: 1110pts
3*10 Seekers w/ Icons: 390pts
Chaos Sorcerer: 60pts
18 Chaos Cultists: 82pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Comms: 70pts
1999+1pts

I dropped Fateweaver because I felt he was dragging this particular list down, then retooled my army to the above. This list is about as close to a swarm as you're going to get without sacrificing all potential of ever hurting a Land Raider. I have 120 Daemonettes who can deepstrike in a daisy chain down a flank (w/ one unit outflanking due to Herald) or on top of three separate Seekers units, giving me four potential threat vectors to drop down on. The army will start with everything but the Obliterators doing its best to hide out of line of sight of the enemy. The cultists will generally hide next to the Comms, giving me re-rolls for my reserves, while the Oblits and Sorcerer (rolling telepathy for Invis for one of the better maledictions, hopefully) will try to pop vehicles/do as much damage as possible until they die. The Seekers units will charge up as far as possible first turn to give me extra angles of attack. With their small unit sizes I should be able to take enough advantage of terrain to get one or two icons close to the enemy. If all doesn't go to pot first turn I ought to get 80 to 100 Daemonettes dropping right next to my enemy second turn with the other 20 to 40 dropping down the turn after. Even if it does go to pot and none of my Seekers make it forward I still have the outflanking Daemonette unit to start my deepstrike chain off of.

14/14/14 spam does concern me a bit but, given the nature of those lists, I think that I'll still have a decent chance of winning via scenario due to the 138 scoring troops I put onto the table.

What do you guys think? Stronger or weaker than my previous list?

Quick note Invisibility is ML 2 so you wont be able to get that power. List notes. It looks tough. However, note that your army is a glass hammer. With 5++ saves only. If you roll a 4 on the chart then that turns into a 6++ for a turn and can possibly lose you the game. Your list will probably have issues with horde orks or nids as they can match you number to number and both come with a lot of dakka that can bring down t3. Aircrons might also give you some fits but they wont be able to kill enough of your guys. It has the looks of a solid list. The armies that might give you hell in precedences:
1. Green Tide Orks
2. Grey Knights
3. Tyranids
4. Mech IG
5. Venom Spam DE (rare these days)

Some would argue tau but all you need is 5 models to get the charge off to win that fight. Of and of course other daemon armies with better saves. People utilizing the grimiore and/or forewarning will give you fits.

 Tomb King wrote:

zamnath wrote:
Okay, so my new try at an 'Ard List:

'Ard List
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Mount: 60pts
6*20 Daemonettes, 3 units w/ Icons: 1110pts
3*10 Seekers w/ Icons: 390pts
Chaos Sorcerer: 60pts
18 Chaos Cultists: 82pts
3* Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle: 228pts
Aegis w/ Comms: 70pts
1999+1pts

I dropped Fateweaver because I felt he was dragging this particular list down, then retooled my army to the above. This list is about as close to a swarm as you're going to get without sacrificing all potential of ever hurting a Land Raider. I have 120 Daemonettes who can deepstrike in a daisy chain down a flank (w/ one unit outflanking due to Herald) or on top of three separate Seekers units, giving me four potential threat vectors to drop down on. The army will start with everything but the Obliterators doing its best to hide out of line of sight of the enemy. The cultists will generally hide next to the Comms, giving me re-rolls for my reserves, while the Oblits and Sorcerer (rolling telepathy for Invis for one of the better maledictions, hopefully) will try to pop vehicles/do as much damage as possible until they die. The Seekers units will charge up as far as possible first turn to give me extra angles of attack. With their small unit sizes I should be able to take enough advantage of terrain to get one or two icons close to the enemy. If all doesn't go to pot first turn I ought to get 80 to 100 Daemonettes dropping right next to my enemy second turn with the other 20 to 40 dropping down the turn after. Even if it does go to pot and none of my Seekers make it forward I still have the outflanking Daemonette unit to start my deepstrike chain off of.

14/14/14 spam does concern me a bit but, given the nature of those lists, I think that I'll still have a decent chance of winning via scenario due to the 138 scoring troops I put onto the table.

What do you guys think? Stronger or weaker than my previous list?

Quick note Invisibility is ML 2 so you wont be able to get that power. List notes. It looks tough. However, note that your army is a glass hammer. With 5++ saves only. If you roll a 4 on the chart then that turns into a 6++ for a turn and can possibly lose you the game. Your list will probably have issues with horde orks or nids as they can match you number to number and both come with a lot of dakka that can bring down t3. Aircrons might also give you some fits but they wont be able to kill enough of your guys. It has the looks of a solid list. The armies that might give you hell in precedences:
1. Green Tide Orks
2. Grey Knights
3. Tyranids
4. Mech IG
5. Venom Spam DE (rare these days)

Some would argue tau but all you need is 5 models to get the charge off to win that fight. Of and of course other daemon armies with better saves. People utilizing the grimiore and/or forewarning will give you fits.

Ah! You're right. It's a tossup between biomancy and telepathy depending on my mood/the situation, then. The inability to get Invisibility sort of stinks. The Sorcerer was a tax for the backfield scoring unit and the oblits, in this situation, anyways, though, so anything it does at all is good as far as I'm concerned. I still might go back to three soul grinders, but I really don't like putting such huge armored targets into a list that brings no other armor/high toughness models to confuse target priority with. The oblits, at least, can hide out if the need arises.

As to the hard matchups, I definitely agree about the Orks/Tyranids and the Venoms, but I'm not sure about the Mech IG and the Grey Knights. I haven't played against Mech IG much, so I am probably off, but a 20 man Daemonette unit going against a Guard vehicle's rear armor should do fairly well. This is assuming that the guard don't just eat the Daemonettes for breakfast before they can do anything, but 150 (Daemonettes/Seekers) wounds is a lot to have to chew through in a short number of turns. With Grey Knights, I think it might depend on the list my enemy brings. The only regular Grey Knights player I run up against plays a Paladin/Termie spam list, and I am fairly confident that he wouldn't be able to handle that many fast rending models.

I view Venom Spam as a lost cause, honestly, and Tyranids (if anyone I knew played them) look like they'd be a great counter to pretty much any Daemon list out there, but I think with the proper tactics I could go toe to toe with an Ork horde. It would be hard, but if I stacked up on one side of an army and collapsed sideways I'm pretty sure I could pull through. There's a really talented Ork player at my store who usually runs Green Tide and I'm going to see if I can get a game in against him at some point. I was going to use my other list against him, but it might be more worthwhile to try out the semi-horde instead.

Here's another approach for the Nurgle list I'm trying to refine... I cut the psychic powers from the two daemon princes (I seem to roll a lot of 10s trying to cast the spells anyway, so I'm not sure I'm losing much) and used those points to pick up a herald to carry the portaglyph. It manages to keep the Blight Drone around, but needs to use the nurglings to get under 1500 with two troop choices. (I also give up the sacred number of plague bearers, if you're superstitious)

On the plus side, I do have two fast attack and two heavy support options that will also serve as scoring units in some missions

HQ: Great Unclean One (290)
2x Major Gifts
1x Minor Gift
Psyker Level 3

HQ: Herald of Nurgle (100)
Exalted Portaglyph
Greater Locus of nastyness

Troop: 3 nurglings (45)

Troop: 10 plague bearers w/ Instrument (100)

Fast attack: 7 plague drones, plaguebringer w/ minor gift, rot proboscis, icon (359)

Fast Attack: FW Blight Drone (125)

Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, wings, mark of nurgle (240)

Heavy: Prince w/ 2x greater gift, wings, mark of nurgle (240)

Comes to 1499. I'll give this a spin this weekend, but I'm thinking it has the best balance between models I want to use and covering weaknesses.

 Redbeard wrote:

Tomb King wrote:
QFT! A 1500pt list with only one scoring unit will struggle in a competitive environment and this army will already has enough issues in that regard. Not a fan of nurglings.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of nurglings either anymore. They're too easily killed without eternal warrior anymore. As for the competitive environment thing, I don't think that's an issue. I'm planning to play this at the Adepticon "Friendly", which shouldn't be a hardcore competitive scene, and is more for thematic players who feel strongly about having units of sevens in their Nurgle armies, and so on...

So, does this mean you're NOT going to sell me your daemons, then? I'll be over in the Championship with fluffy multiple-of-sixes Slaaneshi Daemons + CSM allies.

I've been very monotheistic in my testing so far, but I'm enjoying Fiends still, and Seekers can be downright absurd. Both are VERY fragile, barring one or more of the really good Blessings, but they are extremely quick and can hit like a ton of bricks. Seekers, though, are taking some getting used to - they have such a huge "footprint" on the board that even a single unit of 18 gets in my way often; it's worse in Hammer & Anvil, as keeping properly spaced to avoid blasts becomes challenging - the unit is wider than the board.

Dunno yet, Janthkin, I think a lot will depend on how they feel in the tournament setting. If I end up cursing a lot, they may well still be sold.

Another Daemon list I have been looking at:

HQ

Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards
Daemon Prince daemon of slaanesh, daemonic flight, warp forged armour & 2 x greater rewards

Troops

13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors
13 x Pink Horrors


Fast Attack

13 x Flesh Hounds
13 x Flesh Hounds

Heavy Support

Soul Grinder daemon of tzeentch & phelgm bombardment
Soul Grinder daemon of tzeentch & phelgm bombardment

Total is just under 2k, so still got some points to burn up.

If you swap one of those Princes for the Keeper, it fits in a single org chart, too.

No need when I can fit it all in anyway. Plus I've tried the Keeper before and it's a bit meh. Will also be the only ground monster too and isn't going to add anything the Princes aren't doing already.

 Janthkin wrote:
If you swap one of those Princes for the Keeper, it fits in a single org chart, too.

I'm not sure it would fit. I'm assuming the following:

1. He has three DPs of Slaanesh in the HQ slot.
2. He swaps one for a Keeper of Secrets also in HQ, still three units in the HQ slot.
3. He moves one of the remaining DPs to a Heavy slot (the only one open, as the other two are occupied by Soulgrinders
4. This leaves two units in HQ (Keeper and one Prince), and three in Heavy (two 'Grinders and one DP).

If that is correct, I don't think it's legal. Adding a greater daemon of a specific god doesn't let you choose to put a matching DP into a HQ or Heavy slot. It requires that ALL matching DPs become Heavy Support.

 undertow wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:
If you swap one of those Princes for the Keeper, it fits in a single org chart, too.

I'm not sure it would fit. I'm assuming the following:

1. He has three DPs of Slaanesh in the HQ slot.
2. He swaps one for a Keeper of Secrets also in HQ, still three units in the HQ slot.
3. He moves one of the remaining DPs to a Heavy slot (the only one open, as the other two are occupied by Soulgrinders
4. This leaves two units in HQ (Keeper and one Prince), and three in Heavy (two 'Grinders and one DP).

If that is correct, I don't think it's legal. Adding a greater daemon of a specific god doesn't let you choose to put a matching DP into a HQ or Heavy slot. It requires that ALL matching DPs become Heavy Support.

True, that; he'd have to change the marks on one of the Princes.

I've been enjoying the Keeper. He doesn't have the same mobility a winged Prince, true, but the difference between T5 & T6 is nontrivial all by itself, plus the extra wound, plus the additional attacks, and he's mobile enough to hide from shooting as & when needed. Plus mine is already painted, which is a big plus from my perspective.

 Janthkin wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:
If you swap one of those Princes for the Keeper, it fits in a single org chart, too.

I'm not sure it would fit. I'm assuming the following:

1. He has three DPs of Slaanesh in the HQ slot.
2. He swaps one for a Keeper of Secrets also in HQ, still three units in the HQ slot.
3. He moves one of the remaining DPs to a Heavy slot (the only one open, as the other two are occupied by Soulgrinders
4. This leaves two units in HQ (Keeper and one Prince), and three in Heavy (two 'Grinders and one DP).

If that is correct, I don't think it's legal. Adding a greater daemon of a specific god doesn't let you choose to put a matching DP into a HQ or Heavy slot. It requires that ALL matching DPs become Heavy Support.

True, that; he'd have to change the marks on one of the Princes.

I've been enjoying the Keeper. He doesn't have the same mobility a winged Prince, true, but the difference between T5 & T6 is nontrivial all by itself, plus the extra wound, plus the additional attacks, and he's mobile enough to hide from shooting as & when needed. Plus mine is already painted, which is a big plus from my perspective.

I have like a professionally painted keeper of secrets. Still cant bring myself to run him. Also have a greater unclean one to the same standard. If I ever want fluffy list I might field them but other than that there are better hq's for the job. At least the GUO can just deny slay the warlord out right.

I played a 2000 point game this weekend with this list:

HQ:
Fateweaver (powers: Prescience, S:8 melta shot from Pyromancy, Smite, Invisibility)
Herald of Tzeentch, Exalted Reward (Grimoire), +1S shooting locus.

Troops:
16 Horrors, Instrument
16 Horrors, Instrument
10 Plaguebearers
14 Bloodletters

Heavy
DP of Tzeentch, Exalted Reward (Portalglyph), Greater Reward (S8 AP1 lance attack), Psychic (ML:2) (Enfeeble, Psychic Shriek)
DP of Tzeentch, Greater Reward (S8 AP1 lance attack), Greater Reward (re-roll failed invuls), Lesser Reward (default Tzeentch Weapon), Psychic (ML:2) (Endurance, Psychic Shriek)
DP of Tzeentch, Greater Reward (FNP 4+), Greater Reward (3+ armor, redundant), Lesser Reward (default Tzeentch Weapon) Psychic (ML:2) (Enfeeble, Puppet Master)

ADL with Icarus Lascannon (manned by Bloodletters).

I played a Tau list that looked like this:

Commander - lots of upgrades (irridium suit, multi-spectrum suite (unit ignores cover if he doesn't shoot), command control node (unit is twin-linked if he doesn't shoot), and some others including the one that grants skyfire.
Crisis suit team (not sure if these were commander bodyguards or just a normal crisis team. These were armed with missle pods and plasma.

Riptide suit

3x 10 Firewarriors in Devilfish

Pathfinder team with special character in a Devilfish

Broadside team (2 suites) and missile drones ( 4 I think ).
Hammerhead with Rail Cannon


I went first and left Fateweaver in a stupid position. My opponent was able to seize, which initially made me think the game was lost, as Fateweaver was sitting more or less in the open, on the ground without the benefit of the grimiore. However, due to him deploying a bit back in his area, he wasn't able to get good enough range to bring a lot of firepower to bear on Fateweaver, and I got lucky when he rolled a 1 to wound with his Hammerhead. In that first round of his shooting he managed to just kill a couple of horrors.

I got First Blood by killing the Hammerhead with shooting from Fateweaver, also killed a bunch of stuff with Psychic shrieks from the DPs. He wasted an entire turn of his army's shooting on Fatewaver, just trying to ground him. My dice were a bit hot and I made every grounding save but one, which I was able to re-roll due to Fateweaver's ability. Throughout the entire game, that re-roll was key in so many areas. Whether it was smoothing out Portalglyph rolls, or Grounding tests, or avoiding Perils when casting, I'm not running a Daemon list without the two-headed turkey.

The Princes pulled their weight as well. I got a bit lucky with Rewards and got Str 8, AP 1 Lance shots on two of them. These let me ID his crisis suits. The FNP 4+ on one of them, combined with rerolling 1s on the 3+ armor save was amazing.

I pulled out a win. Although he had the 1 point objective at the end (we played The Scouring) and I had none due to some questionable tankshocks on his part. I had Linebreaker, First Blood and Slay the Warlord, while he had only Linebreaker. Two of his scoring units were wiped by Warpflame after losing most of the unit to Flickering Fire.

At the end of the game I still had Fateweaver, two DPs, my Herald and his squad of Horrors, the Plaguebearers and the portalglyph. He had two slightly damaged Devilfish and two squads of two firewarriors. If the game had gone on one more turn, he likely would have been tabled.

 undertow wrote:
I played a 2000 point game this weekend with this list:

HQ:
Fateweaver (powers: Prescience, S:8 melta shot from Pyromancy, Smite, Invisibility)
Herald of Tzeentch, Exalted Reward (Grimoire), +1S shooting locus.

Troops:
16 Horrors, Instrument
16 Horrors, Instrument
10 Plaguebearers
14 Bloodletters

Heavy
DP of Tzeentch, Exalted Reward (Portalglyph), Greater Reward (S8 AP1 lance attack), Psychic (ML:2) (Enfeeble, Psychic Shriek)
DP of Tzeentch, Greater Reward (S8 AP1 lance attack), Greater Reward (re-roll failed invuls), Lesser Reward (default Tzeentch Weapon), Psychic (ML:2) (Endurance, Psychic Shriek)
DP of Tzeentch, Greater Reward (FNP 4+), Greater Reward (3+ armor, redundant), Lesser Reward (default Tzeentch Weapon) Psychic (ML:2) (Enfeeble, Puppet Master)

ADL with Icarus Lascannon (manned by Bloodletters).

I played a Tau list that looked like this:

Commander - lots of upgrades (irridium suit, multi-spectrum suite (unit ignores cover if he doesn't shoot), command control node (unit is twin-linked if he doesn't shoot), and some others including the one that grants skyfire.
Crisis suit team (not sure if these were commander bodyguards or just a normal crisis team. These were armed with missle pods and plasma.

Riptide suit

3x 10 Firewarriors in Devilfish

Pathfinder team with special character in a Devilfish

Broadside team (2 suites) and missile drones ( 4 I think ).
Hammerhead with Rail Cannon


I went first and left Fateweaver in a stupid position. My opponent was able to seize, which initially made me think the game was lost, as Fateweaver was sitting more or less in the open, on the ground without the benefit of the grimiore. However, due to him deploying a bit back in his area, he wasn't able to get good enough range to bring a lot of firepower to bear on Fateweaver, and I got lucky when he rolled a 1 to wound with his Hammerhead. In that first round of his shooting he managed to just kill a couple of horrors.

I got First Blood by killing the Hammerhead with shooting from Fateweaver, also killed a bunch of stuff with Psychic shrieks from the DPs. He wasted an entire turn of his army's shooting on Fatewaver, just trying to ground him. My dice were a bit hot and I made every grounding save but one, which I was able to re-roll due to Fateweaver's ability. Throughout the entire game, that re-roll was key in so many areas. Whether it was smoothing out Portalglyph rolls, or Grounding tests, or avoiding Perils when casting, I'm not running a Daemon list without the two-headed turkey.

The Princes pulled their weight as well. I got a bit lucky with Rewards and got Str 8, AP 1 Lance shots on two of them. These let me ID his crisis suits. The FNP 4+ on one of them, combined with rerolling 1s on the 3+ armor save was amazing.

I pulled out a win. Although he had the 1 point objective at the end (we played The Scouring) and I had none due to some questionable tankshocks on his part. I had Linebreaker, First Blood and Slay the Warlord, while he had only Linebreaker. Two of his scoring units were wiped by Warpflame after losing most of the unit to Flickering Fire.

At the end of the game I still had Fateweaver, two DPs, my Herald and his squad of Horrors, the Plaguebearers and the portalglyph. He had two slightly damaged Devilfish and two squads of two firewarriors. If the game had gone on one more turn, he likely would have been tabled.

Looks like you made a pretty good run. I have to concur fateweavers ability to re-roll one dice in every player turn is irreplacable. It has saved my bacon on more then one occasion. It is kind of funny how much one dice roll can effect the game. You get a good representation of this when using him. As for the daemon princes the 4+ FnP is always a nice one to secure. Its silly to have a prince with a 2+ equivalent save and the ability to ignore half the wounds that make it through. How did you bring down his riptide?

 Tomb King wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I played a 2000 point game this weekend with this list:

HQ:
Fateweaver (powers: Prescience, S:8 melta shot from Pyromancy, Smite, Invisibility)
Herald of Tzeentch, Exalted Reward (Grimoire), +1S shooting locus.

Troops:
16 Horrors, Instrument
16 Horrors, Instrument
10 Plaguebearers
14 Bloodletters

Heavy
DP of Tzeentch, Exalted Reward (Portalglyph), Greater Reward (S8 AP1 lance attack), Psychic (ML:2) (Enfeeble, Psychic Shriek)
DP of Tzeentch, Greater Reward (S8 AP1 lance attack), Greater Reward (re-roll failed invuls), Lesser Reward (default Tzeentch Weapon), Psychic (ML:2) (Endurance, Psychic Shriek)
DP of Tzeentch, Greater Reward (FNP 4+), Greater Reward (3+ armor, redundant), Lesser Reward (default Tzeentch Weapon) Psychic (ML:2) (Enfeeble, Puppet Master)

ADL with Icarus Lascannon (manned by Bloodletters).

I played a Tau list that looked like this:

Commander - lots of upgrades (irridium suit, multi-spectrum suite (unit ignores cover if he doesn't shoot), command control node (unit is twin-linked if he doesn't shoot), and some others including the one that grants skyfire.
Crisis suit team (not sure if these were commander bodyguards or just a normal crisis team. These were armed with missle pods and plasma.

Riptide suit

3x 10 Firewarriors in Devilfish

Pathfinder team with special character in a Devilfish

Broadside team (2 suites) and missile drones ( 4 I think ).
Hammerhead with Rail Cannon


I went first and left Fateweaver in a stupid position. My opponent was able to seize, which initially made me think the game was lost, as Fateweaver was sitting more or less in the open, on the ground without the benefit of the grimiore. However, due to him deploying a bit back in his area, he wasn't able to get good enough range to bring a lot of firepower to bear on Fateweaver, and I got lucky when he rolled a 1 to wound with his Hammerhead. In that first round of his shooting he managed to just kill a couple of horrors.

I got First Blood by killing the Hammerhead with shooting from Fateweaver, also killed a bunch of stuff with Psychic shrieks from the DPs. He wasted an entire turn of his army's shooting on Fatewaver, just trying to ground him. My dice were a bit hot and I made every grounding save but one, which I was able to re-roll due to Fateweaver's ability. Throughout the entire game, that re-roll was key in so many areas. Whether it was smoothing out Portalglyph rolls, or Grounding tests, or avoiding Perils when casting, I'm not running a Daemon list without the two-headed turkey.

The Princes pulled their weight as well. I got a bit lucky with Rewards and got Str 8, AP 1 Lance shots on two of them. These let me ID his crisis suits. The FNP 4+ on one of them, combined with rerolling 1s on the 3+ armor save was amazing.

I pulled out a win. Although he had the 1 point objective at the end (we played The Scouring) and I had none due to some questionable tankshocks on his part. I had Linebreaker, First Blood and Slay the Warlord, while he had only Linebreaker. Two of his scoring units were wiped by Warpflame after losing most of the unit to Flickering Fire.

At the end of the game I still had Fateweaver, two DPs, my Herald and his squad of Horrors, the Plaguebearers and the portalglyph. He had two slightly damaged Devilfish and two squads of two firewarriors. If the game had gone on one more turn, he likely would have been tabled.

Looks like you made a pretty good run. I have to concur fateweavers ability to re-roll one dice in every player turn is irreplacable. It has saved my bacon on more then one occasion. It is kind of funny how much one dice roll can effect the game. You get a good representation of this when using him. As for the daemon princes the 4+ FnP is always a nice one to secure. Its silly to have a prince with a 2+ equivalent save and the ability to ignore half the wounds that make it through. How did you bring down his riptide?

Exalted for fateweavers re roll, it has also saved my bacon more times then I can count, in one game against a tourny level player using RW with salvo banner spam he shot everything at fatey trying to ground him, I failed one grounding test early on and used the re roll, I was counting up the passed grounding tests and passed saves (darn 3 plus invul, passed grimure and got -1 to invuls :(). In the end I passed 9 grounding tests which if I had failed on the 3 grounding test without the re roll I am sure he would have been dead by then.

As for games, i have played quite a few, over 10 for sure and have yet to lose, come close yesterday but opponent decided to leave end of turn 5 without finishing the turn and without rolling to see if it continued, I dont think he liked the fact I insta killed his bloodthirster... was running at 2k so higher then normal but using roughly the same lists. I have a 1.5k point game tomorrow and thinking of running this


Lord of change, 2 greater rewards, 1 lesser reward, ML 3 Warlord
Herald of Tzeentch, ML2 exalted reward (grimouire) Locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch, ML2 exalted reward (portalglpyh) Locus of conjuration

17 Horrors
17 Horrors

Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, wings armour, 2 greater rewards ML2
Daemon prince, Mark of Tzeentch, wings armour, 2 greater rewards ML2

Yes I would like to get more horrors in case I lose 2 I lose a d6 of shots, the herald will roll once on divi (prescience) then take flickering fire. Reason for LoC over fatey for this game is the lack of units I have, I think I would rather have a jack of trades for this game rather then just fateweaver flying around using PSA and malediciting/blessing units, at least the LoC can hold his own in CC along with the two DP's

I am playing a three way game against Nids and orks I think, mission is relic, so a big free for all in the middle. Perfect game to use slaanesh really, except I dont own or use anything other then tzeentch !

 Tomb King wrote:
Looks like you made a pretty good run. I have to concur fateweavers ability to re-roll one dice in every player turn is irreplacable. It has saved my bacon on more then one occasion. It is kind of funny how much one dice roll can effect the game. You get a good representation of this when using him. As for the daemon princes the 4+ FnP is always a nice one to secure. Its silly to have a prince with a 2+ equivalent save and the ability to ignore half the wounds that make it through. How did you bring down his riptide?

The Riptide did two wounds to itself via failed Overcharge rolls. I then did one via the S:8 Lance Greater Reward from one of the Princes. Fateweaver gave it one wound in CC when the Riptide charged him ( I left Fateweaver on the ground (but buffed by the Grimiore) in the middle of the field serve as an attractive fire magnet in the middle of the game when his Broadsides were dead and his crisis suits and commander were being smashed by the FNP DP). The Riptide then failed to wound Fateweaver and failed combat resolution. I didn't sweep him. The final wound was dealt by a DP with the Lance shot reward while the suit was running for his board edge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarkyMark wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Reason for LoC over fatey for this game is the lack of units I have, I think I would rather have a jack of trades for this game rather then just fateweaver flying around using PSA and malediciting/blessing units, at least the LoC can hold his own in CC along with the two DP's

The problem I see with the LoC is that without the 3+ armor, he's just way too squishy. He'd die to a volume of fire that Fateweaver or a DP would shrug off. Of course you could hit hiim with the Grimoire, but that isn't as reliable without the potential to re-roll it that Fateweaver brings.

For me, Fateweaver is must-have. I was initially disappointed by him when I got the new codex, but I think I've seen the light.

I do know what you mean, when I first started using this list I used the LoC, had good success with him as well, but then I started to use fatey and that was that, the reroll is brilliant, warp storm table re roll can be useful and his powers arent bad, but he sucks in CC and i think he is better in bigger points games, at 1kpts using 2 DP's I think I need another CC threat (with lesser gift staff of change he is str 8 without smashing)

I'm thinking of trying this list out when i get the models for it.

Hq:
Bloodthirster
2 greater, 1 lesser

Herald of tzeentch
Mastery lvl 2
grimoire
Exalted loci of conjuration

Karanak

Troops:
20 daemonettes
20 daemonettes
15 horrors
10 plaguebearers

Fast:
20 flesh hounds

Heavy
Soul grinder of slaanesh
Soul grinder of slaanesh

Total should be 1750pts

Basic idea is to run all but horrors with herald and plagues into the enemys face turn 1, then assault with what is still alive turn 2. Grimoire will boost the hounds. I may change the plagues into more horrors possibly. And depending on match and opponent, may take portaglyph instead of the grimoire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just Thought up another list with some FMC/MC spam, oh and it's a 2000pts list.

HQ:
Bloodthirster
2x greater

Keeper of Secrets
exalted, greater (takes portaglyph or grimoire for exalted)

Troops:
15 daemonettes
15 daemonettes
10 horrors
10 horrors
10 plaguebearers

Fast:
10 flesh hounds
10 flesh hounds

Heavy:
DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor

DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor

Total: 2000pts.

So the plan is to try and get the iron arm+ lash combo with the princes for some str7-9 whiping action, if not, then there's loads of other good stuff in the biomancy table Keeper will lead the daemonettes and soak up shots while they advance behind the flesh hounds, that will screen and engage enemies early. Keeper will throw down portaglyph for more troop daemons hopefully. the horrors and plagues are there basically just to take objectives, but horrors can shoot down softer targets (like speeders or small units by focusing loads of fire on a unit with multiple horror units).

 masquerade81 wrote:
I'm thinking of trying this list out when i get the models for it.

Hq:
Bloodthirster
2 greater, 1 lesser

Herald of tzeentch
Mastery lvl 2
grimoire
Exalted loci of conjuration

Karanak

Troops:
20 daemonettes
20 daemonettes
15 horrors
10 plaguebearers

Fast:
20 flesh hounds

Heavy
Soul grinder of slaanesh
Soul grinder of slaanesh

Total should be 1750pts

Basic idea is to run all but horrors with herald and plagues into the enemys face turn 1, then assault with what is still alive turn 2. Grimoire will boost the hounds. I may change the plagues into more horrors possibly. And depending on match and opponent, may take portaglyph instead of the grimoire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just Thought up another list with some FMC/MC spam, oh and it's a 2000pts list.

HQ:
Bloodthirster
2x greater

Keeper of Secrets
exalted, greater (takes portaglyph or grimoire for exalted)

Troops:
15 daemonettes
15 daemonettes
10 horrors
10 horrors
10 plaguebearers

Fast:
10 flesh hounds
10 flesh hounds

Heavy:
DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor

DP of slaanesh,
2x greater reward (takes lash of despair) mastery lvl 3 (takes biomancy hoping for iron arm), flight, armor

Total: 2000pts.

So the plan is to try and get the iron arm+ lash combo with the princes for some str7-9 whiping action, if not, then there's loads of other good stuff in the biomancy table Keeper will lead the daemonettes and soak up shots while they advance behind the flesh hounds, that will screen and engage enemies early. Keeper will throw down portaglyph for more troop daemons hopefully. the horrors and plagues are there basically just to take objectives, but horrors can shoot down softer targets (like speeders or small units by focusing loads of fire on a unit with multiple horror units).

The keeper of secrets imo is the worst greater daemon in the book. If you are playing 2k points why not just drop it for something else possibly even a khorne prince if you want more speed/MC's. Then you can move the 2 Last princes over to the HQ slot. What is your desired roll for the 2 units of 10 horrors? Plagues camp objectives and the daemonettes advance. Which will the horrors be doing?

The first list looks decent. Personally not a fan of the soul grinders as they are expensive for what your getting but ymmv. Might see if you can fit a herald of slaanesh in there with beguilement to give one of the daemonette squads re-rolls to hit and the ability to snipe off annoying characters like commissars or weak hq's in general.

Horrors are there basically to camp objectives, as i dont have more pb models yet. I could change the keeper in the first list into two heralds of slaanesh on steeds and beguilmet. The other could take portaglyoh and other grimoire.

Will be trying something slightly different with the daemons tonight, opinions?

Lord of Change, 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward Ml3 (mastery level)
Herald of Tzeentch, Ml3, locus of conjuration,
Herald of Tzeentch, Ml3 exalted reward (portalglyph)
Herald of Tzeentch, ml3 exalted reward (grimoure)

20 Horrors
10 Horrrors
10 Horrors

Daemon prince, MoT, wings, armour Ml3 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, MoT, wings, armour Ml3 2 greater rewards 1 lesser reward

Basically dropping out a DP to get some more heralds and slightly better DP's, therefore I have dropped out fateweaver as he is a multiplyer but I feel I would need more FMC's that can wreck face.

The heralds and horrors will go into one big squad, expensive but potentialy horrid. The potential there is for 15 D6 str6 shots re rolling misses to go off at str 6 I can hurt all flyer