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Furthermore, if you get first turn, there is literally nothing your opponent can do (assuming you're smart about keeping the lootas from bothering you) before you get a 2/3ds chance of throwing half of his army off the table.

And then yeah, bubble wrap.

And the deathstrike is hardly the worst tank in the game. It's not even the worst in the codex.

 Ailaros wrote:

And then yeah, bubble wrap.

What ever happened to "you can't bubble wrap in 6th, Lootas will just carve a hole for the charge."

Is there a way to get psychic abilities? I know that Psychic Shriek is murder for both Nobs and Termies.

Warning, some Mathammer and Theoretical mumbo jumbo ahead.



You are right, they are hard to kill. But massed fire will do them same as anyone else.

If i would put 3 DA tactical Squads with command squad and dakka banner, they would make a bit more than 10 wounds (all in 24 inch range and within banner).
(140 shots, 93,33 hits, 31,11 wounds, 15,55 after saves and 10,37 after FNP). And Dakka banner is hot stuff today, most DA players will take it.

Lets assume DA are facing equal worth of Nob bikers. That's Warboss and 8 additional bikes.

If player uses Boss as a wound shield, doing LOS and redistributing wounds, that means that probably a good portion of the bikers still lives.
After each models receives a wound, there is only one extra wound left, meaning only one dead model.
It would be hard to keep all of models within 6'' of Warboss, so probably more like 3 dead bikers. In one shooting phase.
While not ideal for orcs, the bikers are still very much in the game and can jump in to close combat, where they will be protected against further massed fire. and will slowly eat the marines.
Stathammer says that overvatch would not cause a whole wound (0,74 wounds) while In CC the marines would do a 0,61 of a wound, causing one wound. Warboss would kill 3,33 marines, PK nob 2,22, and other surviving orcs 5,92 marines, wiping the unit out.
But that would be bad for orcs, cause in following phase, they would face 7,4 wounds from the remaining marines. So on 19 wound unit, that's 19, 12 wounds.
I didn't take in to account that once there is only Boss and one more Nob, the last three hits need 6 to wound, so the boss will probably still be alive. But he would then need 3 round of close combat to wipe another unit, if he doesn't die in the process.
Meanwhile, one tactical and command squad could still provide 60 bolter shoots to the battlefield.


I assumed that the Orcs will be in shooting range just once, then assaulting. With adding more Nobz is not a problem, adding more Tacticals within range of banner is not that easy.
This is DA answer, but Dakka banner is their answer to a lot of things.

I need to do some math with massed guardsmen but i expect that it will turn out in favor of the orcs.

Griddlelol wrote:What ever happened to "you can't bubble wrap in 6th, Lootas will just carve a hole for the charge."

Let me rephrase that.

Nob bikers can only go SO fast. They literally can't make it to you on turn 1, and they're VERY unlikely to make it to you on turn 2 if you deploy in the corners with your deathstrikes. Furthermore, yes, infantry bubble wrap is dead, but tank bubblewrap - in the situation where you're literally deploying something in the corner, can still work temporarily.

And really it's the timing that's the issue. You just need to keep them alive long enough to shoot once. After that, it doesn't really matter.

Well, it doesn't for the deathstrike against nob bikers, at least.

Well, they can go 24" turn 1, and in the same turn there's a 50/50 chance of night fighting giving them a 3+ to 2+ cover save with good positioning.

Now turn 2 they have an average CC threat range 19", so they're able to hit most anything in the army.

On top of that by T2 when a Deathstrike can fire, there is a good chance that they have gotten close enough to the IG's friendly units that you can't fire the DS missile at them.

And even if you could you still have to roll a 6 that turn (or 5-6?)

A Manticore will do better overall (negates FNP at least) and is actually useful against other opponents (if we're trying to keep TAC in mind).

 Bobthehero wrote:
Medusa Siege Gun, 100 pts, str 10 ap 2 large blast, longer range than the Demolishers.

And I can make e'm either twinlinked or force to re-roll cover saves.

Why should you have an option to erase bikers that costs nothing and has no counter? You could always just buy some bike nobs and play em with no opponent; then they wouldn't fight back! Win win

More Dakka wrote:Well, they can go 24" turn 1, and in the same turn there's a 50/50 chance of night fighting giving them a 3+ to 2+ cover save with good positioning.

On top of that by T2 when a Deathstrike can fire, there is a good chance that they have gotten close enough to the IG's friendly units that you can't fire the DS missile at them.

Neither of these are a serious concern for a mech list, what with both having more searchlights than they know what to do with, and being able to to clear out of the blast radius in the movement phase before the big gun fires.

Plus, if you're up against a guard player that can't figure out how to keep a single important something out of close combat for a turn, you probably don't need nob bikers to win against them.

More Dakka wrote:A Manticore will do better overall (negates FNP at least) and is actually useful against other opponents (if we're trying to keep TAC in mind).

The deathstrike isn't a useless weapon. I don't get why people are saying this. Just because it's not at the top of the charts doesn't make it worthless.

And the manticore is 0% more survivable than a deathstrike, and it doesn't negate cover saves. It also occasionally rolls only one blast template when it shoots, which isn't doing much of anything to a mob of nob bikes.

Meanwhile, the manticore still has to roll to hit, while the deathstrike's radius is so huge that it's very unlikely to miss its target altogether. Half chance to hit times half chance to beat cover doesn't sound much better than a 1/3d chance to shoot and blow up everything.

 More Dakka wrote:
On top of that by T2 when a Deathstrike can fire, there is a good chance that they have gotten close enough to the IG's friendly units that you can't fire the DS missile at them.

As the deathstrike does not use a normal blast marker, there is nothing stopping you firing it almost on top of your own guys. The blast radius is worked out after the final location is determined. Not saying it is the best idea but you can shoot just in front of your own lines if you want to. Such is the way when Guard commanders get access to ICBMs.

Yeah, and I'd easily throw away a few guardsmen or a chimera to friendly fire if it means that a nob biker squad goes up in flames.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, and I'd easily throw away a few guardsmen or a chimera to friendly fire if it means that a nob biker squad goes up in flames.

Smal problem with that.
You cant willingly target your own models with a blast marker (unless that weapon says FU to those rules, i dunno) so if the nobz are REAAALY close and you cant target any of them without hitting your own dudes, its an illegal move.
Does it say it ignores invul saves? Our local IG player refuses to use those because out of 3+ years of IG he has never gotten it to launch once lol. I would laugh my butt off if my 6-7 bikernobz got hit by that, all wounds caused, and i invul saved 5+ of them lol. Highly unlikely, but i just had a game where i passed 4 out of 5-6 FNP rolls multiple times...so anythings possible lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, and I'd easily throw away a few guardsmen or a chimera to friendly fire if it means that a nob biker squad goes up in flames.

Smal problem with that.
You cant willingly target your own models with a blast marker (unless that weapon says FU to those rules, i dunno) so if the nobz are REAAALY close and you cant target any of them without hitting your own dudes, its an illegal move.
Does it say it ignores invul saves? Our local IG player refuses to use those because out of 3+ years of IG he has never gotten it to launch once lol. I would laugh my butt off if my 6-7 bikernobz got hit by that, all wounds caused, and i invul saved 5+ of them lol. Highly unlikely, but i just had a game where i passed 4 out of 5-6 FNP rolls multiple times...so anythings possible lol

Read up, its not targeting your own dudes with a blast, the radius goes after you place the target.

Ah i thought it was a large blast + D6. Like i said i never encounter it since the IG guy refuses to bring it and i play orks lol

 pretre wrote:
No army has a weapon that ignores cover+armor+invul+FNP+T5.

Unless you know of a S10 Flamer Template that ignores Invul saves. lol

I know of one combination that will ignore 4 out of the 5, but it isn't even guard and can't be allied into guard....

I don't think the Deathstrike is horrible, but I don't think it's practical either.

The Manticore can fire on T1 and T2 and has a better chance of getting 2-3 templates than the DS has of getting 1 uber shot off.

Again, I am speaking more from the perspective behind the handlebars than in front of them. If an opponent showed me a gunline with a Manticore and a Deathstrike on the other side of it I will be sending my first volley of Loota fire a Manticore. If the only threat to my Bikerz is the Deathstrike then that will be the obvious target (using a fire magnet to take down another fire magnet just doesn't seem like it would work).

Nobz Bikers could congo line, reducing effectiveness of Manticore.

I typically allly my Nobz Bikers to my Tau. Manticores is easy picking for Broadsides.

 SabrX wrote:
Nobz Bikers could congo line, reducing effectiveness of Manticore.

I typically allly my Nobz Bikers to my Tau. Manticores is easy picking for Broadsides.

Yup, one of the main reasons i just picked up tau. Finally got my dex so i can actually use my ~40 fire warriors, 3 broadsides, 3 devilfish, 12 stealthsuits and however many drones i got lol. Been irritating the crap outta me that my codex was taking so long to show up.
Orksies lack da range. But we be good in da melee!

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 SabrX wrote:
Nobz Bikers could congo line, reducing effectiveness of Manticore.

I typically allly my Nobz Bikers to my Tau. Manticores is easy picking for Broadsides.

Yup, one of the main reasons i just picked up tau. Finally got my dex so i can actually use my ~40 fire warriors, 3 broadsides, 3 devilfish, 12 stealthsuits and however many drones i got lol. Been irritating the crap outta me that my codex was taking so long to show up.
Orksies lack da range. But we be good in da melee!

awwwwwwwww yis