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New to warhammer40k not sure which one to choose?

Warp Talons are awful.
Raptors with meltas or flamers are ok, but still not great.
From the fast attack slot I'd stick to Heldrakes and MoN Bikers personally.

You just have to think, what do raptors do that marines in a rhino can't do?

Not much.

What do raptors do that cult marines in a rhino can't do?

Even less.

Oh and don't even mention warp talons. They are a horrible, horrible joke of a unit.

Raptors are still pretty though.
And being a fast unit, armed entirely with ap3 weapons isn't that bad.

Yes, they are expensive, and trying to use deep strike with them is very risky, but combined with the chaos artefact that gives no scatter on deep strike they could have a use. And you don't have to deep strike if you don't want to.

They are too expensive overall - but could be a fun unit.
If fluff is your thing and you aren't too worried about only taking 'all competitive units, all the time' you'll have fun with them.

I"m putting a 5-man unit of MoK Talons in my list. Because red dudes with jumppacks and claws look cool.

I'm going to make a squad of 10 nightlords raptors with the mark of slaanesh - because blue dudes with jumppacks and claws look cool too

For battlefield effectiveness, probably Raptors.

For cool factor, definately Warp Talons.

Also, there is something raptors/talons can do that marines in a rhino cannot and that is charge without having to exit their vehicle and stand around for a turn like chumps.

Warp Talons are horribly expensive and don't really give you much aside from base 2 shredding AP3 attacks and a 5++ save. And I think the Warp Talon Sergeant can take two chaos boons if you want to be edgy.

Raptors are better imo, and they can take a flamer, meltagun, or plasmagun. Much better and more useful.

As to what they can do that a Rhino full of Traitor Marines can't do, rohansoldier brought up the first point. They can assault without standing around with their thumbs up their butts for a turn.
They can also do Hammer of Wrath attacks (not much, but can be very helpful).
They can deep strike somewhere if you want to use them as tank hunters.

They also look pretty badass, which is the MOST important part, right?

They also won't give first blood as easy as men in a rhino, because Rhino's are made of cardboard.

Could you not also slaanesh/banner of excess them for high I and making them 3+/5++ and fnp?

If we're spending the pounds we may as well spend the points.

I am waiting to see what the daemon FAQ says about using instruments and Icons before I can truly comment on warp talons. If the Icons and Instruments work on them, they will be ok. Otherwise Warp Talons will still be trash.

Mohoc wrote:
I am waiting to see what the daemon FAQ says about using instruments and Icons before I can truly comment on warp talons. If the Icons and Instruments work on them, they will be ok. Otherwise Warp Talons will still be trash.

And the Grimoire of true names, don't forget that one which isn't actually in need of a FAQ they can be used with it already.

Both options are not that great. Warp Talons are rather strange as they have no grenades
I'd consider Daemons as allies. They have decent FA units, like Screamers for anti-tank or anti-TEQ, Flesh Hounds for anti-infantry, and Seekers for almost anti-everything. Take a (fast) Herold to lead such a squad.

Use the "lord of the night" upgrade for a Chaos Lord, you know the one that unlocks Raptors as troops.......oh wait, we did this already......maybe just use the blood angels codex instead to get the rules you really need

Lovepug13 wrote:
Use the "lord of the night" upgrade for a Chaos Lord, you know the one that unlocks Raptors as troops.......oh wait, we did this already......maybe just use the blood angels codex instead to get the rules you really need

LOL, Maybe this is the key... Use Blood Angels codex with Raptor/Warp Talon models. I think you have it.

If you are going to go with the CSM codex, I think a potential might be Warp Talons with MoT, I know it is the least HTH mark to give them but going to 4++ save might make them situational. Overall, I think Raptors are more flexible to the situation as well as a heck of a lot less costly.

The biggest problem of Raptors and Talons is the cheap cost of Bikers and Chaos Terminators.

Raptors and Bikers have the same load out of special weapons and bikes have the advantage of +1 T.
The mobility of turbo-boost versus the mobility of deep strike. Is about a wash but the 5T or 6T tips it in favor of bikes.

Warp Talons on paper look good because +30 upgrade cost to a chosen, you get for the same cost a marine with a jump pack and 2 LCs.
The problem is LCs are only AP3 so they are not an answer to terminators and CSM terminators cost the same.

What I could see is using them for deep striking in except CSM terminators can do the same for less.
I could see using Warp Talons except for CSM terminators cost less and can be configured to answer everything better.

The only use for Warp Talons might be a small unit of 5 to 7 hiding behind a rhino wall to lead an assault.
Raptors, other than for looks, is similar, to tuck them behind some vehicles to be an interceptor/anti-tank or anti-personnel squad.

Make a raptor about 3 points cheaper and a warp talon 5 to 8 points cheaper and they would be played but of course making them that much cheaper and then CSMs would be overcosted. Make bikes or terminators much more expensive and CSM would be non-competitive.

You can boost em pretty good with the new Daemon Heralds now

Barrywise wrote:
You can boost em pretty good with the new Daemon Heralds now

How?

Lovepug13 wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
You can boost em pretty good with the new Daemon Heralds now

How?

You can take a wargear for your Herald that can increase the invu save of a Warp Talon squad for one game turn. So it's like you can pump ~200 points to enhance the WTs into the "not-so-sucky" level for one game turn (they will still suck in the others). Oh, and it only works on a 3+.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/512769.page#5371349

 AtoMaki wrote:

Lovepug13 wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
You can boost em pretty good with the new Daemon Heralds now

How?

You can take a wargear for your Herald that can increase the invu save of a Warp Talon squad for one game turn. So it's like you can pump ~200 points to enhance the WTs into the "not-so-sucky" level for one game turn (they will still suck in the others). Oh, and it only works on a 3+.

And how do you get a herald into a group of warp talons?

It doesn't have to be in the squad, the grimoire is a ranged Artefact, and you can't get any heralds into CSM squads because they don't have the Daemonic instability rule (I keep forgetting that) but their Loci can be increased to a 6" radius if they take a chariot

MoK Bikers are better than Raptors, 12" move + re-rollable 2D6+1 charge. Add that they always have Hammer Of Wrath, TL Bolters, and T5 for very few point more and they are a far better tarpitting unit. You could even add a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut.

of course (offtopic) it isnt confirmed that cross codex buffing is allowed (yet)

It depends on which "buff" you're referring to. Right now the Totem of Endless Bloodletting definitely doesn't help any CSM units except a Daemon Prince, as that's the only unit in that book which can be a Daemon of Khorne.

On the other hand the Grimoire of True Names definitely works on Warp Talons and Obliterators and anything else with the Daemon USR.

 phantommaster wrote:
MoK Bikers are better than Raptors, 12" move + re-rollable 2D6+1 charge. Add that they always have Hammer Of Wrath, TL Bolters, and T5 for very few point more and they are a far better tarpitting unit. You could even add a Khorne Lord on Juggernaut.

Sucks to be those bikers if their target is on the upper levels of a ruin, though.

In a vacuum, bikers are easily better than raptors. In an actual gaming situation, raptors certainly have their uses - especially when it comes to multi-level ruins and buildings. Situational? Sure, but so is the assumption that everything is on the ground level.

Why waste a Fast Attack slot, I mean Helldrake slot, on either?

 AtoMaki wrote:

Lovepug13 wrote:

Barrywise wrote:
You can boost em pretty good with the new Daemon Heralds now

How?

You can take a wargear for your Herald that can increase the invu save of a Warp Talon squad for one game turn. So it's like you can pump ~200 points to enhance the WTs into the "not-so-sucky" level for one game turn (they will still suck in the others). Oh, and it only works on a 3+.

Unless I am mistaken daemons with instability can only join other units with instability. Even if you could do this why would you join a jump pack unit with a ground-pounder IC?

Instability says that you can't join a unit with DI with a character who doesn't have DI. The restriction on Heralds joining other units is in the Daemonic Alignment section. You can only join a unit of the same Daemonic Alignment. Since the only unit in the CSM codex with a Daemonic Alignment is the Daemon Prince...

However, what he was talking about there is the Grimoire of True Names, which is something else entirely, and works fine on any unit with the Daemon USR.