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I was planning on making a 25, if not, 35 point Phinneus Shae group and get started with Warmachine for the first. But as I stroll around on some Batrep of Mercenaries Vs. Whoever the opponent's army is, they seem to lose alot on their own. But I can't deny how badass Mercenaries are, I just think they are only good with other factions combined with them, nothing more, but really, how well do they do overall at games you played them with, with no other factions combined forces with them, and who was your opponent's army?

Also last thing, if you were to choose from Phinneus Shae, Rhulic, or Magnus the Traitor, who would you choose?

Mercenaries used to have a problem with a low damage capacity. That is no longer an issue with the colossal. The mercenary colossal has had a huge impact on them as a faction. It isn't an auto-include, but you will want it as an option more often than not. Mercenaries are still probably a little trickier to learn with than some other factions due to contracts, but once you learn the game they are quite strong.

Shae is unusual in that he is really meant to be used in his theme list with lots of infantry. You won't be fielding many warjacks effectively with him, but what he brings is very mean.

Playing strictly rhulic models in the searforge contract is very limiting and will likely give a new player trouble, but taking a mostly-rhulic highborn list with a few humans and elves to help out is very effective.

Magnus is a more rounded warcaster than Shae that has more viable options, but that doesn't mean he's better than Shae's one very good option. Magnus likes to have a few jacks and a couple units of infantry around.

Is there anything in particular your looking in a faction or warcaster? knowing that would be very helpful.

I'd probably go with Magnus. Shae forces are EXTREMELY limited, as your only real option is to play his theme force. Magnus has the widest variety of options out of the three you mentioned.

If you want Mercs to be competetive.. Dont restrict yourself to 1 contract.

Rhulic casters are all 3 very nice.. just dont play pure searforge.

Mercs actually can have very high damage output even without the collosal.

Damiano Steelhead lists pack a very very nice punch.


As for the army being weak ? I disagree, i moved from Menoth to Mercs as my main army and ive had no issues winning with them.

Ah... So I see, playing just only mercs without any assistance of other factions are a bit hard, yes? I am not entirely aware of all rules in WamaHordes, even contracts, but I do have a PDF file of which can only go to which factions, but a question, can I take a, for example, Khador warjack, units and solos, can they be lead by Merc warcasters?

Unfortunately not. Merc casters can only run Merc warjacks. Which makes me oh so very sad.... :( On the upside, a very small portion of units can be taken as mercenary units if you take the right contract. I know the Arcane Tempest Gun Mages can do this for sure if you use a Highborn Covenant list, and I'm pretty sure that there is a Khador unit that will work for the Four Star Syndicate (although I can't for the life of me recall which unit that was).

http://www.forwardkommander.com/

The above site. Use it for listbuilding to see who can take what.


Just chooseContract. then it shows everything under that contract.

Simple Simple.

It's also worth nothing that PP has officially stated they don't really consider mercenaries to be a "faction" (much to the disappointment of mercs players). This means that mercs being under the curve isn't considered issue the way it would be if a main faction was chronically under performing.

I tend to think Mercs work better as a 2nd faction, since you can build them up by choosing mercs that work for your main faction. Once your collection is mature you'll be able to pick up a merc caster and a couple of 'Jacks to complete the force.

That said they're in a better state than the minoins contracts.

The thing is, it's hard to recommend Mercs as a beginning faction, just because the way army building works for them is so different (and so restrictive) compared to other factions.

In most factions, you can just choose a caster and take what you like. With Mercenaries, you have to choose one of 4 'contracts', or a theme force, all of which severely restrict what you can take. Then you have further things, such as Rhulic casters only being able to take Rhulic jacks, certain models only being able to be used by certain contracts (the Commadore cannon can only be used by pirates, for instance). It makes it complicated, and means you can't always get all the models you own on the table at the same time.

If you really do like Mercs, then go for it, this is just a little word of warning so you know before you start. I'd recommend aiming for a '4 Star Syndicate' or 'Highborn covenant' contract list first, as they have the broadest range of options (some Pirates, some Dwarves, some general mercs), before you get specialised contracts like Searforge (only rhulic dwarves) or Talion (only pirates) stuff. Check out Battle College here for a bit of a run down, or ask in the Merc Forum on the Privateer Press forums for advice.

Wait ? Mercs is Restrictive ?

The only way it is restrictive is if you go Pure Searforge or Talion.

Go highborne or 4 Star and your fine.

Mercs are close enough to a "Real" Faction. if you want to get down to it.

We will be the only "Faction" With 2x Collosals by the end of this year so far.

We have a Battle Engine on the way.

We are getting releases as fast as the "Real Factions"
most cygnar players would even say Constance Blaize is a better Merc army caster then a Cygnar Caster.

On the table top, they are a real faction.

In the fluff. They are not a real faction.. They are Mercs.. they work for everyone and not a combined army.


(Mini rant over)

Now to make this Simple. If your starting the game new as a merc player.
Stick to Highborne or 4 Star. Its very simple if you do that.

Sadly This Leaves Shae out.

If a Unit works for Khador.. Its 4 star.
If a unit works for Cygnar Its highborne.
Some work for both and can be taken in either Contract.

It states under each unit what they work for.

Now ontop of this

Highborne may take the Following Units from Cygnar Books.

Gallant (Warjack)
Constance Blaize (Warcaster)

(Units)
Arcane Gun Mages + UA (FA1)
Long Gunners + UA (FA1)
Precursor Knights + UA (FA2)

4 Star May take the Following Units from Khador Books
(Units)
Kayaze Assasins (FA2)
Kayaze Eliminators (FA2)

** You do not have to stick to 1 Contract in tourney settings.
If you go to a 2 caster Tourney, You can have 1x Highborne List and 1x 4 Star list Etc

A few Notes of intrest for starting.
Rhulic Casters Can only Take Rhulic Warjacks
Non Rhulic Casters Cannot Take Rhulic Warjacks.

That is the only restriction on Warjacks, Warjacks work for any Contract.


I saw you had intrest in Rhulic ?
All 3 casters work under 4 star or Highborne.

Jeez, are Minions this complicated too?

Anyhow, yes, I am having a quite interest in Rhulic now, especially that Driller of theirs. I did make different post on the Shae Army, however, after reading all your posts here, I realize its just best not to go with shae, personally the only thing that the Talion got my attention is their Commodore Cannon and crew, yes, I know what your thinking "Newbies go for the big guns" But in the end they just go with lesser stragety, plus only 1" movement, so yep...

I still have loads of time to think about choosing my army, but what mostly gets my attention is an army with good fluff, now WarmaHordes overall does not provide that much of a good fluff, but hey, a very balanced game.

I have 3 to see armies and to view their stat cards on the PDF's, its either Khador, Rhulic Mercs, or I don't even know why, but even Retribution. Retribution seems rather interesting with their spells, if I'm mistaken, whatever their "abilities" are seems pretty something. Khador's russian-style fluff and looks, and a Heavy-Warjack only army, while Rhulic Mercs, well I just like to have an army that aren't a nation, but rather an army.

Decisions decisions...

There is alot of Fluff in Warmachine.
The Forces books are full of it.

For even more. Look into Warmachine: Wrath and Warmachine: Collosals.
I suggest reading the fluff of the above two books.

Minons are easier due to the fact they have 1/4 the options mercenaries get. :p

I think you may be a bit decieved on the 2 of the factions your looking at.

Khador usually only runs 2-3 Warjacks at most, Retribution is more about Technology then spells for effectiveness.

Oh....? Never realized they had fluff books, I'd just thought Colossals was just presenting the new models of the Colossals for each faction, once again, I was wrong.

Yep, fewer Jack's due to the higher cost correct? Funny, I thought russians strength were in numbers, since Russia had like millions in their army, but yes, I do know how WarmaHordes don't act up the same in the real world, i'm just wanting to say.

I didn't notice, but is was Retribution a new faction or an original Warmachine faction? Only curious because before Cryiss got announced, it was 6 Warmachine factions and 5 Hordes factions, and thought that was odd because they are opposites, but fully compatible, but one has more factions than the other. And they just seem to have different play styles, very different I mean than other ones.

One last thing, If Retribution is not an original WarmaHordes faction and with Cryiss announced, how come Hordes isen't getting any new factions? Is it because more people play WM than Hordes correct? Well, it doesn't seem like they are getting any love from some of us.

 Sharps wrote:
Oh....? Never realized they had fluff books, I'd just thought Colossals was just presenting the new models of the Colossals for each faction, once again, I was wrong.
.

Indeed. or if you can dig up some of the older books, shae and his gang had a book all to themselves - pirates of the broken coast.

 Sharps wrote:

Yep, fewer Jack's due to the higher cost correct? Funny, I thought russians strength were in numbers, since Russia had like millions in their army, but yes, I do know how WarmaHordes don't act up the same in the real world, i'm just wanting to say.
.

partly. their resources are in far away and difficult to access areas so they make fewer warjacks, but make them bigger and tougher to compensate.

 Sharps wrote:

I didn't notice, but is was Retribution a new faction or an original Warmachine faction? Only curious because before Cryiss got announced, it was 6 Warmachine factions and 5 Hordes factions, and thought that was odd because they are opposites, but fully compatible, but one has more factions than the other. And they just seem to have different play styles, very different I mean than other ones.
.

Nope. retribution came just before mk2 hit. it used to be 4 factions each, plus mercs/minions.

 Sharps wrote:

One last thing, If Retribution is not an original WarmaHordes faction and with Cryiss announced, how come Hordes isen't getting any new factions? Is it because more people play WM than Hordes correct? Well, it doesn't seem like they are getting any love from some of us.

Nope. Nothing like that. there is a new hordes faction promised, but its not hitting this year - itll probably coincide with hordes 10 year anniversary. retribution, iirc was produced as PP's 10year "gift". convergence are 10 years of "warmachine".

And trust me, hordes get plenty love! they're not lacking in any ways.

Deadnight wrote:


Nope. Nothing like that. there is a new hordes faction promised, but its not hitting this year - itll probably coincide with hordes 10 year anniversary. retribution, iirc was produced as PP's 10year "gift". convergence are 10 years of "warmachine".

Retribution was introduced in 2009(I was at that Gencon, actually), PP was only founded in 2000, with their first product(Longest Night, first of the Witchfire Trilogy) in 2001. Retribution was more a "MkII's coming out next year, and BTW, here's a new army" gift.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Deadnight wrote:


Nope. Nothing like that. there is a new hordes faction promised, but its not hitting this year - itll probably coincide with hordes 10 year anniversary. retribution, iirc was produced as PP's 10year "gift". convergence are 10 years of "warmachine".

Retribution was introduced in 2009(I was at that Gencon, actually), PP was only founded in 2000, with their first product(Longest Night, first of the Witchfire Trilogy) in 2001. Retribution was more a "MkII's coming out next year, and BTW, here's a new army" gift.

Hmm, didn't know that Hordes wasn't released when Warmachine came out. But I just wonder, out of all the creatures of fantasy, myth and legends, what could be their 10th anniversary "Gift'?

They are getting a new faction on their 10th annivers.

Its been announced, but no one knows what it is.

In WarmaHordes, can you just paint your models whatever the hell you want?

Just asking this because in 40k, painting has some restrictions, such as you need a chapter color in order to play with them, and if you just put random colors on it, your opponents would be confused for what you are even playing, I don't know much about 40k, but just wondering since in WarmaHordes, every faction model is unique and can be indentified of what faction they belong to by observing their shapes, unlike Space Marines, all chapters are the same models, but have some just little to maybe few unique models, such as Black Templar's Brethrens.

Correct me if i'm mistaken.

Never heard of in 40k having to paint your army of the chapter you choose.. Must be your area ?

But you can paint them any colors you choose.

Yeah i'm pretty dumb with this whole Wargaming obviously. I've pretty much used to do card games, but its just pretty plain boring for me, not my type of hobby. Until I found Wargaming, and no, not a damn $10,000 Black Lotus card is for sale, but a game with models but just war and stragety... More stragety.

Thankfully people like yourself help me with all these rules, sorry about not having a rulebook, but I did find a local game store that even has WarmaHordes tournaments, and get the rulebook there, PLUS, i'm getting the faction books, just for the fun of the fluff, because I love fluffly things, Yep.

 Sharps wrote:
Yeah i'm pretty dumb with this whole Wargaming obviously. I've pretty much used to do card games, but its just pretty plain boring for me, not my type of hobby. Until I found Wargaming, and no, not a damn $10,000 Black Lotus card is for sale, but a game with models but just war and stragety... More stragety.

Thankfully people like yourself help me with all these rules, sorry about not having a rulebook, but I did find a local game store that even has WarmaHordes tournaments, and get the rulebook there, PLUS, i'm getting the faction books, just for the fun of the fluff, because I love fluffly things, Yep.

The fluff is actually pretty good, an interweaving storyline, where each faction's actions in their story affect the story's of other factions. For instance, if you read the book for Menoth, you'll read about a Cryxian attack on a Menite part of llael, which seems like just a random raid, however if you read the Cryxian book, you also know why the attack took place (as a distraction to keep forces away/pinned down while they moved a dragon Arthanc they had recovered). Each story gets bits and pieces told from each side, which altogether make a very engaging and intricate plot. And a moving plot, of course, which is a big difference from 40k.

The writing style is... well, mostly quite good, however the battle scenes to sound a little bit like someone narrating an actual game of warmahordes, in that you can pick out specific powers/feats that are being used by the casters in question, but you get used to that. Definitely worth reading all the books if you can

 Sharps wrote:
In WarmaHordes, can you just paint your models whatever the hell you want?

Just asking this because in 40k, painting has some restrictions, such as you need a chapter color in order to play with them, and if you just put random colors on it, your opponents would be confused for what you are even playing, I don't know much about 40k, but just wondering since in WarmaHordes, every faction model is unique and can be indentified of what faction they belong to by observing their shapes, unlike Space Marines, all chapters are the same models, but have some just little to maybe few unique models, such as Black Templar's Brethrens.

Correct me if i'm mistaken.

No, there is no rule stating your Cygnar has to be blue, or your Khador has to be red. There is also no rule like that in 40k, and anybody who gets angry because your BA chapter isn't painted red is a dick, plain and simple.

That being said, you tend to see fewer people deviate from the 'standard' paint scheme. This is largely because unlike 40k, where you have almost unlimited resources available to make your own chapter of space marines or dynasty of necrons, the warmahordes world is much smaller, giving you less ability to play with your own army's backstory. There is nothing stopping you from doing so, however.

Sharps wrote:
Hmm, didn't know that Hordes wasn't released when Warmachine came out. But I just wonder, out of all the creatures of fantasy, myth and legends, what could be their 10th anniversary "Gift'?

heh, you need to realise PP dont do traditional fantasy, myth and legend, unless they can turn things on their head. For example, even though the iron kingdoms is a fantasty setting, there are no orks. We have pork instead, courtesy of the farrow, although the main writer - doug seacat officially stated to my queries on the matter that the skorne are the race that fills the "brutal, warmongering civilisation based on war" trope.

As to the new hordes faction, no one knows, except the folks at PP and they're not talking. However, there is talk, and speculation that the new Hordes faction will be the Infernals (covered in the iron kingdoms RPG material) - basically they're a mysterious order of demons who can trade you dark magic and power in exchange for souls (yours or others). they construct their monsters based on bits and pieces of souls. And by all accounts they're planning an invasion. Other ossibilities include the return of the orgoth, a zu expedition or maybe something completely out of left field.

Sharps wrote:In WarmaHordes, can you just paint your models whatever the hell you want?

Just asking this because in 40k, painting has some restrictions, such as you need a chapter color in order to play with them, and if you just put random colors on it, your opponents would be confused for what you are even playing, I don't know much about 40k, but just wondering since in WarmaHordes, every faction model is unique and can be indentified of what faction they belong to by observing their shapes, unlike Space Marines, all chapters are the same models, but have some just little to maybe few unique models, such as Black Templar's Brethrens.

Correct me if i'm mistaken.

Indeed. you are mistaken. even with the whole 40k thing. if you need a "chapter colour" then what happens when you want to make your own successor chapter, instead of one of the well known ones? my blue marines might use the blood angels codex (red marines) but i can explian it away by saying they're a successor chapter that uses the same rules. 40k is a game where you are encouraged to go off and make your own chapter/regiment/hivefleet or what have you. All you have to do is say "My war angels use the space wolf codex. If youve got any questions, just ask".

but yes, you can paint the models however you like. Khador is traditionally red, but there are alternative schemes - the fifth border legion is mainly green, for instance. if you want to paint them yellow, then call them a desert expedition and have a go.

Sharps wrote:Yeah i'm pretty dumb with this whole Wargaming obviously. I've pretty much used to do card games, but its just pretty plain boring for me, not my type of hobby. Until I found Wargaming, and no, not a damn $10,000 Black Lotus card is for sale, but a game with models but just war and stragety... More stragety.

Thankfully people like yourself help me with all these rules, sorry about not having a rulebook, but I did find a local game store that even has WarmaHordes tournaments, and get the rulebook there, PLUS, i'm getting the faction books, just for the fun of the fluff, because I love fluffly things, Yep.

if you like the fluff, dont just confine yourself to the warmachine and hordes books. Do a search online and see if you can find any of the iron Kingdoms RPG material. thats where the game started first. although they've revamped it this year with their own rules set for it, the old IK RPG stuff was a D20 (ie dungeons and dragons engine) setting and the material should still be out there. 400 page world guide, an in depth book on the port of five fingers, 2 monsternomicons (one includes a great, in depth look at the Skorne), and various player handbooks. As good as the fluff is in the WMH books, the RPG material was what really sold me on the depth, character and detail of the world. if its the kind of thing you're into, you should check it out. just remember to come up for air every now and then!

Well, time to wrap this thread up, I have chosen Khador as a first army and then until I progress, Mercs will be added as my 2nd.

I just feel like its best to go with Khador, but still I will not forget the Mercs, plus they can join up with Khador, correct? Well some of them do and some of them don't, but still feels like a Two-in-one type of thing for an army.

Anyway, thanks for the opinions and answers, much appreciated.

Khador is a pretty good choice for that. They have access to a very large selection of mercs.

When using mercs as part of a faction force, you need to watch out for abilities on your warcasters that only affect "friendly Faction" models only. These abilities will not affect your mercenary models. Just something to keep in mind when building a list.

 oomiestompa wrote:
Khador is a pretty good choice for that. They have access to a very large selection of mercs.

When using mercs as part of a faction force, you need to watch out for abilities on your warcasters that only affect "friendly Faction" models only. These abilities will not affect your mercenary models. Just something to keep in mind when building a list.

Though Khador does have a UA that makes mercs into khador models

 kenshin620 wrote:

 oomiestompa wrote:
Khador is a pretty good choice for that. They have access to a very large selection of mercs.

When using mercs as part of a faction force, you need to watch out for abilities on your warcasters that only affect "friendly Faction" models only. These abilities will not affect your mercenary models. Just something to keep in mind when building a list.

Though Khador does have a UA that makes mercs into khador models

Well, Merc Units, anyway, and other than Nyss Hunters, most Mercs I see on the table with Khador are Solos.

Of course, the fact that the Winterguard Deathstar is one of the better units in the whole game may have something to do with that.

 Platuan4th wrote:


Well, Merc Units, anyway, and other than Nyss Hunters, most Mercs I see on the table with Khador are Solos.

Too be fair nearly all the "Turn Mercs into your faction" models tend to get attached to Nyss Hunters

 oomiestompa wrote:
Khador is a pretty good choice for that. They have access to a very large selection of mercs.

When using mercs as part of a faction force, you need to watch out for abilities on your warcasters that only affect "friendly Faction" models only. These abilities will not affect your mercenary models. Just something to keep in mind when building a list.

Well thats good to hear, as long as I enjoy Khador, I will give them a try someday.

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:


Well, Merc Units, anyway, and other than Nyss Hunters, most Mercs I see on the table with Khador are Solos.

Too be fair nearly all the "Turn Mercs into your faction" models tend to get attached to Nyss Hunters

Murdoch does love him some Boomies.