Pacific Theatre

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**FenrisianStuart21**

Why no Japanese for FOW? I've always wondered why there isn't and feel like it would be a great addition.

**MarsNZ**

I think a community did a pacific project somewhere on the WWW. BF themselves talked about it a while back but I think they settled on Vietnam instead.

**col. krazy kenny**

Their are self published Pacific rules out their.

**mwnciboo**

I have to say, I've often thought that BF had a scatter-brained approach. I kind of have this conversation was had in the BF HQ at some point.

"Lets do WWII"
"Okay"
"Should we expand to Pacific Theatre, it would make sense and make the whole line Complete? "
"No there were no major battles in pacific involving vehicles and stuff, it was just infantry island hopping"
"But what about the fall of Singapore, Guadalcanal, Burma, The chindits, there is alot of Scope here it would be easy, plus we could have Japanese USMC, Indian Units, Gurka Lists. We could even have more Australian and NZ units imagine that"
"NO, NO I SAID NO!!!!!!"
"Okay Maybe we could expand do the Korean War?"
"NO, lets do Vietnam instead, everyone likes Vietnam even NZ was involved"
"But NZ was involved in the Pacific Theatre of WWII too, we have the miniatures already for most of the Korean War forces it would be minimal effort and be a nice stepping stone from WWII to later Wars in the 20th Century?"
"GODDAMMIT, I SAID NO!!!!!!!".
"So we will just do random things, in a random order with no real idea where we as a company and where all these ranges are going?
"NO, it's all about Late War Europe and Vietnam, are you stupid or something? I explained this, for the next decade we will re-release everything we have already done with Minor Alterations, and ignore Mid-War and Early War and when anyone bitches about it we will say "HEY LOOK AT THE SHINY VIETNAM STUFF!!!! REMEMBER THE FILM PLATOON? REMEMBER THE FILM APOCALYPSE NOW? PUT ON A CCR RECORD AND PLAY THIS AWESOME VIETNAM STUFF" okay, now stay on message for god's sake."

This pretty much sums up how I interpret Battlefronts business model over the last 36 months.

**FenrisianStuart21**

I agree it makes no sense for a business standpoint. You can do so much with That theatre an could expand the range a ton. I thin more people would get into the hobby as well since a lot of people have more interest in that than they do the European front. Complete oversight on their part not adding that if you ask me.

**Anpu-adom**

there is an extensive group on groups.yahoo.com that are building the rules. Some interesting points there.

**col. krazy kenny**

Here save you a headache go buy this, http://www.amazon.com/PACIFIC-Japanese-USMC-Forces-1939-1945/dp/1446138763 it used at adeptcon... So it must be decent.

**Big P**

FenrisianStuart21 wrote:
Why no Japanese for FOW?

Not enough tanks.

**MarsNZ**

mwnciboo wrote:
I
"NO, it's all about Late War Europe and Vietnam, are you stupid or something? I explained this, for the next decade we will re-release everything we have already done with Minor Alterations, and ignore Mid-War and Early War and when anyone bitches about it we will say

They remade EW to be fair, MW is on the cards but when your flagship sales are LW European theatre I don't see how expanding to include a handful of battles (Guadalcanal, Singapore) is going to add a whole lot to the line. Korean war is pretty much just a few new units added to existing '45 lists, yet you decry the company for re-releasing LW with barely any new content. Also they did Vietnam after consulting with the playerbase, the theatre reflects the wishes of the community.

**mwnciboo**

MarsNZ wrote:
mwnciboo wrote:
I
"NO, it's all about Late War Europe and Vietnam, are you stupid or something? I explained this, for the next decade we will re-release everything we have already done with Minor Alterations, and ignore Mid-War and Early War and when anyone bitches about it we will say

They remade EW to be fair, MW is on the cards but when your flagship sales are LW European theatre I don't see how expanding to include a handful of battles (Guadalcanal, Singapore) is going to add a whole lot to the line. Korean war is pretty much just a few new units added to existing '45 lists, yet you decry the company for re-releasing LW with barely any new content. Also they did Vietnam after consulting with the playerbase, the theatre reflects the wishes of the community.

I decry the lack of focus, it lurches from one project to another, rather like a Gamer who embarks on things but never properly completes anything.

There was a hell of alot more battles in the Far East than just Guadalcanal & Singapore, I would point you to Field Marshall Slim's "Defeat into Victory", or maybe check out some of these links...

USMC
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/I/index.html

AUS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Army_during_World_War_II

On the subject of Korea, there was an awful lot of technology and Armoured Vehicles that came in at the very late stages of WWII or not quite in time to make difference or in the 10 years after WWII, much of this Equipment was excellent. Like the Centurion Tank or M41 Walker Bulldog which would be very interesting.

Big P has a point about the lack of Armour, but it didn't stop them with Vietnam adding in certain things and making a small amount of Armour look a hell of a lot more in Tropic lightning.

There is a focus this year on Vietnam and Late War Europe. The last Five books V3 have all been late war :-

Market Garden, LW
Bridge by Bridge, LW
Blood,Guts and Glory, LW
Devil's Charge, LW
Nuts! LW

Just to be Clear this is adding to the LW books under V2 books here is the breakdown.

Number of EW Books # 3 or 9.6%
Number of MW Books # 5 or 16.2%
Number of LW Books # 23 or 74.2%

Do you see why I get annoyed with yet more and more LW books, when clearly we have little new or updated EW or MW content? WWII was not just about Europe or Late war.

col. krazy kenny wrote:
Here save you a headache go buy this, http://www.amazon.com/PACIFIC-Japanese-USMC-Forces-1939-1945/dp/1446138763 it used at adeptcon... So it must be decent.

Top tip - Search this guy on Amazon and see what else he has written -

Bathroom Enemas: - A collection of Enemarotica Stories

Well I bought his Cold War Book and it was full of cr.ap, or maybe he just got confused between what book he was writing at the time.

**Reaver83**

Well I hope that with their current plans to do Berlin end of this year LW should be done by 2014 ( compilations into 2015 maybe) that'll then be done and they can focus on another era, and hopefully for v4 do a non LW box set to encourage that era

**mwnciboo**

Agreed..they need to put LW to bed for a few years.

**KalashnikovMarine**

I'd buy the heck out of Pacific books and armies, as a jarhead myself I have an incredible bias towards our history and it'd be fun to do up a list from my grandfather's unit.

**MarsNZ**

mwnciboo wrote:

I decry the lack of focus,

There is a focus though, it happens to be LW which you obviously don't appreciate and I can understand that, but you've said you don't like them lurching to new projects and suggested a new project in practically the same sentence. From a marketing perspective LW is the golden goose. Look at video games, how many are the standard 'We are USA paratroopers saving Normandy!!!1" compared to say, a game based in the East (where ~80% of the Wehrmacht was beaten). The big sellers all feature the Late War European theatre and predominantly American forces, regardless of the relatively small part they played. It's also no secret that armour companies are probably the most popular, cheap, and everyone likes tanks. Pacific just doesn't have the same broad appeal, or many tanks.

The Pacific campaign was won by Aircraft Carriers, IMO any Pacific wargame would predominantly be a naval one. Then again you can always check the fanmade theatre online.

**col. krazy kenny**

mwnciboo wrote:
MarsNZ wrote:
mwnciboo wrote:
I
"NO, it's all about Late War Europe and Vietnam, are you stupid or something? I explained this, for the next decade we will re-release everything we have already done with Minor Alterations, and ignore Mid-War and Early War and when anyone bitches about it we will say

They remade EW to be fair, MW is on the cards but when your flagship sales are LW European theatre I don't see how expanding to include a handful of battles (Guadalcanal, Singapore) is going to add a whole lot to the line. Korean war is pretty much just a few new units added to existing '45 lists, yet you decry the company for re-releasing LW with barely any new content. Also they did Vietnam after consulting with the playerbase, the theatre reflects the wishes of the community.

I decry the lack of focus, it lurches from one project to another, rather like a Gamer who embarks on things but never properly completes anything.

There was a hell of alot more battles in the Far East than just Guadalcanal & Singapore, I would point you to Field Marshall Slim's "Defeat into Victory", or maybe check out some of these links...

USMC
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/I/index.html

AUS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Army_during_World_War_II

On the subject of Korea, there was an awful lot of technology and Armoured Vehicles that came in at the very late stages of WWII or not quite in time to make difference or in the 10 years after WWII, much of this Equipment was excellent. Like the Centurion Tank or M41 Walker Bulldog which would be very interesting.

Big P has a point about the lack of Armour, but it didn't stop them with Vietnam adding in certain things and making a small amount of Armour look a hell of a lot more in Tropic lightning.

There is a focus this year on Vietnam and Late War Europe. The last Five books V3 have all been late war :-

Market Garden, LW
Bridge by Bridge, LW
Blood,Guts and Glory, LW
Devil's Charge, LW
Nuts! LW

Just to be Clear this is adding to the LW books under V2 books here is the breakdown.

Number of EW Books # 3 or 9.6%
Number of MW Books # 5 or 16.2%
Number of LW Books # 23 or 74.2%

Do you see why I get annoyed with yet more and more LW books, when clearly we have little new or updated EW or MW content? WWII was not just about Europe or Late war.

col. krazy kenny wrote:
Here save you a headache go buy this, http://www.amazon.com/PACIFIC-Japanese-USMC-Forces-1939-1945/dp/1446138763 it used at adeptcon... So it must be decent.

Top tip - Search this guy on Amazon and see what else he has written -

Bathroom Enemas: - A collection of Enemarotica Stories

Well I bought his Cold War Book and it was full of cr.ap, or maybe he just got confused between what book he was writing at the time.

Yeah he is a wierdo,but they do sell a hardback version ebay of the book. Not the adult topic book either.i have never seen one of the books in person.But some people have said good things about it.

**Vanders**

mwnciboo wrote:
I have to say, I've often thought that BF had a scatter-brained approach. I kind of have this conversation was had in the BF HQ at some point.

"Lets do WWII"
"Okay"
"Should we expand to Pacific Theatre, it would make sense and make the whole line Complete? "
"No there were no major battles in pacific involving vehicles and stuff, it was just infantry island hopping"
"But what about the fall of Singapore, Guadalcanal, Burma, The chindits, there is alot of Scope here it would be easy, plus we could have Japanese USMC, Indian Units, Gurka Lists. We could even have more Australian and NZ units imagine that"
"NO, NO I SAID NO!!!!!!"
"Okay Maybe we could expand do the Korean War?"
"NO, lets do Vietnam instead, everyone likes Vietnam even NZ was involved"
"But NZ was involved in the Pacific Theatre of WWII too, we have the miniatures already for most of the Korean War forces it would be minimal effort and be a nice stepping stone from WWII to later Wars in the 20th Century?"
"GODDAMMIT, I SAID NO!!!!!!!".
"So we will just do random things, in a random order with no real idea where we as a company and where all these ranges are going?
"NO, it's all about Late War Europe and Vietnam, are you stupid or something? I explained this, for the next decade we will re-release everything we have already done with Minor Alterations, and ignore Mid-War and Early War and when anyone bitches about it we will say "HEY LOOK AT THE SHINY VIETNAM STUFF!!!! REMEMBER THE FILM PLATOON? REMEMBER THE FILM APOCALYPSE NOW? PUT ON A CCR RECORD AND PLAY THIS AWESOME VIETNAM STUFF" okay, now stay on message for god's sake."

This pretty much sums up how I interpret Battlefronts business model over the last 36 months.

Its...its...its...like reality!
Battlefront conferences..."You had to be there man!!"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarsNZ wrote:
mwnciboo wrote:

I decry the lack of focus,

There is a focus though, it happens to be LW which you obviously don't appreciate and I can understand that, but you've said you don't like them lurching to new projects and suggested a new project in practically the same sentence. From a marketing perspective LW is the golden goose. Look at video games, how many are the standard 'We are USA paratroopers saving Normandy!!!1" compared to say, a game based in the East (where ~80% of the Wehrmacht was beaten). The big sellers all feature the Late War European theatre and predominantly American forces, regardless of the relatively small part they played. It's also no secret that armour companies are probably the most popular, cheap, and everyone likes tanks. Pacific just doesn't have the same broad appeal, or many tanks.

The Pacific campaign was won by Aircraft Carriers, IMO any Pacific wargame would predominantly be a naval one. Then again you can always check the fanmade theatre online.

Yeah, but like has been said, its not JUST the pacific island hopping campaign - theres also the Philipines, fall of Malaya and singapore, Imphal, Kohima, Burma operations, the chindits - and not so well known there was the fighting in Manchuria, Japs versus Russians in 1945, when the Soviets turned east. T-34's versus kamikazes and Chi-Ha's!

You are quite correct re LW and the US angle. The decision to concentrate on that is unquestionably a commercial one, but then Pacific operations should also has a lot of appeal to the large US fanbase.

I personally think the main reason BF has shied from doing the Japanese and the Pacific campaigns is the problems of depicting jungle terrain on a tabletop. It can be done, but not only do you have to buy or model a LOT of terrain, but moving models through such occluded stuff is very fiddly. Particularly since there would be a LOT of models. There would have to be. Individual Japanese elements would not be outstandingly costly. The other problem play balance. Outside of the specialist jungle environment the Japanese would struggle. On paper their armed forces are technically rather backward, especially in the armor/anti tank fields, which means they would struggle against pretty much everyone outside their set situation.

**LuciusAR**

I’m sure BF will get round to the Pacific theater one day, they are probably working on it right now. But like it or not mid/late war is where the money as that where most gamers tend to spend their cash. So that’s where they are going to concentrate for now.

WW2 is a massive war and there are lots of potential areas to cover. I think the early war/blitzkrieg era is where BF are going expand next and BF still have to cover the Winter War, Barbarossa and the Balkans/Crete.

The pacific war would be a huge project, they could probably get at least 10 books out of it. You have the US Marines island hoping, the Commonwealth fighting the Japanese in Burma, the defense of Singapore. Not to mention the Chinese, who fought huge battles against Japan and are the most overlooked member of the allies. You can ever cover the Russians who fought against Japan just before the outbreak of WW2 and right at the end in Manchuria.

If you want to play not the miniatures are available from other companies. Peter Pig do lovely ranges of US Marines and 14th army to allow you to play the British or Americans.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vanders wrote:

I personally think the main reason BF has shied from doing the Japanese and the Pacific campaigns is the problems of depicting jungle terrain on a tabletop. It can be done, but not only do you have to buy or model a LOT of terrain, but moving models through such occluded stuff is very fiddly. Particularly since there would be a LOT of models. There would have to be.

That’s a good point, I did hear a rumor that the Vietnam project is being used as a testing ground for the jungle fighting rules they would use when they eventually cover the pacific. It seems a rather expensive way of playtesting to me, but it’s certainly an intriguing idea.

Lots of people I know who play ‘jungle’ type wargames tend to raid their local pet/aquarium stores for cheap jungle terrain. Plus you can get plastic palm trees from the east on ebay that work brilliantly for 15mm figures, so it’s certainly not unaffordable terrain wise.

**mwnciboo**

Hmmm I hadn't heard that Rumour about Vietnam being used as a testing ground for Jungle type battles. It kind of makes sense too..

It would certainly be Terrain intensive, although throwing in clearings, buildings, crop area's roads and paddy fields would help to reduce that.

Remember that edition of Wargames Illustrated with the Vietnam Houses, they were actually really good. I've never heard of a Wargame not released due to Terrain issues, I would have thought that was just another opportunity to sell more terrain to the masses.

http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/Default.aspx?tabid=267&art_id=2757

You could use these for rural villages (akin to the villages in Thin Red Line).

http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/hobby.aspx?art_id=1796

Barracks and guard towers..

http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/Default.aspx?tabid=274&art_id=1757

**Palindrome**

Big P wrote:

Not enough tanks.

Very likely. Even their Vietnam suppliment is crammed full of armour.

**Vanders**

mwnciboo wrote:
Hmmm I hadn't heard that Rumour about Vietnam being used as a testing ground for Jungle type battles. It kind of makes sense too..

It would certainly be Terrain intensive, although throwing in clearings, buildings, crop area's roads and paddy fields would help to reduce that.

Remember that edition of Wargames Illustrated with the Vietnam Houses, they were actually really good. I've never heard of a Wargame not released due to Terrain issues, I would have thought that was just another opportunity to sell more terrain to the masses.

I wasn't concerned about them selling it (although in my experience wargamers are far more interested in painting troops than preparing terrain). I was more concerned that they thought the fiddliness of moving large numbers of troops through heavy terrain might put people off playing it.

**mwnciboo**

You can certainly get around it, the jungle tables in Vietnam look dense but actually you can move infantry around relatively easily.

Still you are looking at £100 on Trees to make it look even half-decent.

We shall have to see what happens, but I'm not holding my breath we seem to be getting everything but Mid-War and Early War at the moment.

**Reaver83**

mwnciboo wrote:

We shall have to see what happens, but I'm not holding my breath we seem to be getting everything but Mid-War and Early War at the moment.

you mean late war and vietnam? or have they released korea and israel/syria?

**Hordini**

Battlefront have said several times that they plan on doing the Pacific theater eventually, but have also said when they do it, it will likely be a separate "period" which will play a lot differently than European theater games (which is as it should be).

I don't think they're particularly scatterbrained. Battlefront focused exclusively on MW for years, and MW is more or less complete. Yes, there are things they could add but overall MW is pretty solid. They've since shifted to LW and seem to be trying to finish that before they move on. Vietnam is more of a sideshow and they released some EW stuff because people have been screaming for it since the beginning when BF was still focused on MW.

So it's not that they're not ignoring MW. They started with MW, completed it, and moved on.

I'm primarily a MW player and to be honest, I'd rather BF not fiddle much more with MW (I'm looking at you, Mid-War Monsters!). I don't them to mess up something that already works well.

**mwnciboo**

Hordini wrote:
Battlefront have said several times that they plan on doing the Pacific theater eventually, but have also said when they do it, it will likely be a separate "period" which will play a lot differently than European theater games (which is as it should be).

I don't think they're particularly scatterbrained. Battlefront focused exclusively on MW for years, and MW is more or less complete. Yes, there are things they could add but overall MW is pretty solid. They've since shifted to LW and seem to be trying to finish that before they move on. Vietnam is more of a sideshow and they released some EW stuff because people have been screaming for it since the beginning when BF was still focused on MW.

So it's not that they're not ignoring MW. They started with MW, completed it, and moved on.

I'm primarily a MW player and to be honest, I'd rather BF not fiddle much more with MW (I'm looking at you, Mid-War Monsters!). I don't them to mess up something that already works well.

In what way did BF concentrate on MW for years?.... There have only ever been 5 MW books in version 2? MW is in no way Complete, it's not V3 Compliant at the moment, unless you want to play with out dated points.

Number of EW Books # 3 or 9.6%
Number of MW Books # 5 or 16.2%
Number of LW Books # 23 or 74.2%

In LW for the last 36 months every Battle or Sub-part of a Campaign gets a book, yet MID War has 5 books to cover all of the period (which it doesn't very well). LW is now Overwhelming in Content and Books, and MW and EW are suffering. You don't have to believe me, but you should draw your conclusions based on the information below.

Second Edition sourcebooks

Early-War period

1. "Blitzkrieg", covering the Invasion of Poland and the Fall of France. includes Polish, French, British and German Lists.
2. "Hellfire and Back", covering the early war battles in North Africa, it includes English, German and Italian Lists.
3. "Burning Empires", a continuation of Early War battles in North Africa and Greece, it includes lists for Raiding Forces as well, including one American one.

Mid-War period

1. Ostfront, covering all the armies that fought on the Eastern or Russian Front, both Axis (including their allies such as the Hungarians, Finns and Romanians) and Allied forces. Replaced by "Eastern Front" (see below).
2. Afrika, this covers the war in North Africa and Italy. Again this sourcebook includes both Axis and Allied forces, including their various allies.
3. Mid-War Monsters, this covers various experimental armoured fighting vehicles of World War Two, including the M6 Heavy Tank, the Boarhound Armoured Car, and the KV-5 Heavy Tank.
4. North Africa, this updates and replaces the Afrika sourcebook. The specific organizations for the Deutsches Afrikakorps and Italian forces in Libya and Egypt have been included. Forces are split into 5. North African, Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy briefings. New forces previously not found in Afrika, such as British Airborne or a Panzerspähwagenkompanie, are included.
5. Eastern Front, this updates and replaces the Ostfront sourcebook similarly to the North Africa book. It was released January 9, 2010.

Late-War period

1. Festung Europa, army lists for German, US, British and Soviet infantry, motorized, reconnaissance, and armoured forces.
2. D Minus 1, army lists for the Allied paratroop and air-landing units active in the European theater during January 1944-August 1944.
3. D-Day, containing rules for the Normandy campaign, including beach landings, fighting in the bocage.
4. Bloody Omaha, army lists for German and US infantry divisions engaged in Operation Overlord on 6 June 1944.
5. Villers-Bocage, army lists for German and British tank units fighting for control of the Normandy town of Villers-Bocage on 13 June 1944. Includes new heroes, new unit organisations, and new scenarios.
6. Monty's Meatgrinder, army lists for German and British/Canadian forces fighting for Caen from June to August 1944. This book is the first to remove the number of support units limitation based on combat platoons.
7. Cobra, the Normandy Breakout, army lists for SS and American troops fighting during Operation Cobra, the breakout from Normandy.
8. Stalin's Onslaught, army lists for the initial assault in Operation Bagration focusing on the Soviet 8th Independent Penal Battalion, Soviet IS-2 heavy tank battalion and German 78. Sturmdivision. This is the first of th7ee books to focus on Operation Bagration.
9. Fortress Europe was released on 15 November 2008[2] and updates Festung Europa to make it consistent with the new style of army lists and includes options added by PDF.
10. Hammer & Sickle, army lists for the drive on Minsk during Operation Bagration focusing on the Soviet Guards Divisions and German Sperrverband "Armoured Blocking Forces" and 505th German 11. Tiger tank battalion. This is the second of three books to focus on Operation Bagration.
12. Firestorm - Bagration, a Campaign box focused on Operation Bagration
13. River Of Heroes, the last in the Bagration cycle, and focuses on the 3rd and 5th SS Panzer divisions, and the Soviet Sapper battalions.
14. Hell's Highway, the first book in the Market-Garden series, covering German Fallshirmjagers, the American 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and the British Guards Armoured Division.
15. A Bridge too Far, the second and last book in the Market-Garden series, covering the battles for Oosterbeek and Arnhem.
16. Firestorm - Market Garden, a Campaign box focused on Operation Market-Garden.
17. Dogs and Devils, the first of two Italian front books, featuring the US 3rd Infantry Division, the 'Devils Brigade', and the Fallschirmpanzerdivision "Herman Goring".
18. Stalin's Europe, army lists for the German, Soviet, Hungarian and Romanian troops involved in the Siege of Budapest, 1944-45.
19. D-Day Slipcase, a case containing an expansion on many of the "Operation Overlord" source books. The box comprises: "Earth and Steel", containing a complement of German forces at the Atlantic wall; and "Turning Tide", the allied army lists of the operation. These books supersede D minus 1, D-Day, Bloody Omaha, Villers Bocage, Monty's Meatgrinder and Cobra, the Normandy Breakout, updating all the lists in them and adding new lists.
20. Cassino, released in June 2011, focusing on the battles around Monte Cassino.
21. Earth and Steel
22. Turning Tide
23. Grey Wolf, released in December 2011, covering the Axis Forces fighting on the Eastern Front from 1944 to 1945. It replaces Stalin's Onslaught, Hammer and Sickle, River of Heroes and Stalin's Europe, updating all the lists in them and adding new lists.
24. Red Bear, released in December 2011, covering the Allied Forces fighting on the Eastern Front from 1944 to 1945. It replaces Stalin's Onslaught, Hammer and Sickle, River of Heroes and Stalin's Europe, updating all the lists in them and adding new lists.

So after all I have written above, and thinking that V3 book releases have all been for LW as well, in what way do you say that MID-WAR is complete?

**Vanders**

Well Late War is the big seller, so its only natural BF concentrate on it, but at the same time all the attention does provide a kind of positive feedback look. The interest in LW attracts more books, models and articles, which in turn creates more interest.

And as a convinced Mid-War player, although I agree it would be nice to have a bit more attention, I can sympathise with the reservations about it being mucked up by a whole plethora of new books that might make me have to completely redo the army I have lovingly built up over the past 12 months (and which has cost a significant number of £££)

**Hordini**

mwnciboo wrote:
Hordini wrote:
Battlefront have said several times that they plan on doing the Pacific theater eventually, but have also said when they do it, it will likely be a separate "period" which will play a lot differently than European theater games (which is as it should be).

I don't think they're particularly scatterbrained. Battlefront focused exclusively on MW for years, and MW is more or less complete. Yes, there are things they could add but overall MW is pretty solid. They've since shifted to LW and seem to be trying to finish that before they move on. Vietnam is more of a sideshow and they released some EW stuff because people have been screaming for it since the beginning when BF was still focused on MW.

So it's not that they're not ignoring MW. They started with MW, completed it, and moved on.

I'm primarily a MW player and to be honest, I'd rather BF not fiddle much more with MW (I'm looking at you, Mid-War Monsters!). I don't them to mess up something that already works well.

In what way did BF concentrate on MW for years?.... There have only ever been 5 MW books in version 2? MW is in no way Complete, it's not V3 Compliant at the moment, unless you want to play with out dated points.

Number of EW Books # 3 or 9.6%
Number of MW Books # 5 or 16.2%
Number of LW Books # 23 or 74.2%

In LW for the last 36 months every Battle or Sub-part of a Campaign gets a book, yet MID War has 5 books to cover all of the period (which it doesn't very well). LW is now Overwhelming in Content and Books, and MW and EW are suffering. You don't have to believe me, but you should draw your conclusions based on the information below.

Second Edition sourcebooks

Early-War period

1. "Blitzkrieg", covering the Invasion of Poland and the Fall of France. includes Polish, French, British and German Lists.
2. "Hellfire and Back", covering the early war battles in North Africa, it includes English, German and Italian Lists.
3. "Burning Empires", a continuation of Early War battles in North Africa and Greece, it includes lists for Raiding Forces as well, including one American one.

Mid-War period

1. Ostfront, covering all the armies that fought on the Eastern or Russian Front, both Axis (including their allies such as the Hungarians, Finns and Romanians) and Allied forces. Replaced by "Eastern Front" (see below).
2. Afrika, this covers the war in North Africa and Italy. Again this sourcebook includes both Axis and Allied forces, including their various allies.
3. Mid-War Monsters, this covers various experimental armoured fighting vehicles of World War Two, including the M6 Heavy Tank, the Boarhound Armoured Car, and the KV-5 Heavy Tank.
4. North Africa, this updates and replaces the Afrika sourcebook. The specific organizations for the Deutsches Afrikakorps and Italian forces in Libya and Egypt have been included. Forces are split into 5. North African, Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy briefings. New forces previously not found in Afrika, such as British Airborne or a Panzerspähwagenkompanie, are included.
5. Eastern Front, this updates and replaces the Ostfront sourcebook similarly to the North Africa book. It was released January 9, 2010.

Late-War period

1. Festung Europa, army lists for German, US, British and Soviet infantry, motorized, reconnaissance, and armoured forces.
2. D Minus 1, army lists for the Allied paratroop and air-landing units active in the European theater during January 1944-August 1944.
3. D-Day, containing rules for the Normandy campaign, including beach landings, fighting in the bocage.
4. Bloody Omaha, army lists for German and US infantry divisions engaged in Operation Overlord on 6 June 1944.
5. Villers-Bocage, army lists for German and British tank units fighting for control of the Normandy town of Villers-Bocage on 13 June 1944. Includes new heroes, new unit organisations, and new scenarios.
6. Monty's Meatgrinder, army lists for German and British/Canadian forces fighting for Caen from June to August 1944. This book is the first to remove the number of support units limitation based on combat platoons.
7. Cobra, the Normandy Breakout, army lists for SS and American troops fighting during Operation Cobra, the breakout from Normandy.
8. Stalin's Onslaught, army lists for the initial assault in Operation Bagration focusing on the Soviet 8th Independent Penal Battalion, Soviet IS-2 heavy tank battalion and German 78. Sturmdivision. This is the first of th7ee books to focus on Operation Bagration.
9. Fortress Europe was released on 15 November 2008[2] and updates Festung Europa to make it consistent with the new style of army lists and includes options added by PDF.
10. Hammer & Sickle, army lists for the drive on Minsk during Operation Bagration focusing on the Soviet Guards Divisions and German Sperrverband "Armoured Blocking Forces" and 505th German 11. Tiger tank battalion. This is the second of three books to focus on Operation Bagration.
12. Firestorm - Bagration, a Campaign box focused on Operation Bagration
13. River Of Heroes, the last in the Bagration cycle, and focuses on the 3rd and 5th SS Panzer divisions, and the Soviet Sapper battalions.
14. Hell's Highway, the first book in the Market-Garden series, covering German Fallshirmjagers, the American 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and the British Guards Armoured Division.
15. A Bridge too Far, the second and last book in the Market-Garden series, covering the battles for Oosterbeek and Arnhem.
16. Firestorm - Market Garden, a Campaign box focused on Operation Market-Garden.
17. Dogs and Devils, the first of two Italian front books, featuring the US 3rd Infantry Division, the 'Devils Brigade', and the Fallschirmpanzerdivision "Herman Goring".
18. Stalin's Europe, army lists for the German, Soviet, Hungarian and Romanian troops involved in the Siege of Budapest, 1944-45.
19. D-Day Slipcase, a case containing an expansion on many of the "Operation Overlord" source books. The box comprises: "Earth and Steel", containing a complement of German forces at the Atlantic wall; and "Turning Tide", the allied army lists of the operation. These books supersede D minus 1, D-Day, Bloody Omaha, Villers Bocage, Monty's Meatgrinder and Cobra, the Normandy Breakout, updating all the lists in them and adding new lists.
20. Cassino, released in June 2011, focusing on the battles around Monte Cassino.
21. Earth and Steel
22. Turning Tide
23. Grey Wolf, released in December 2011, covering the Axis Forces fighting on the Eastern Front from 1944 to 1945. It replaces Stalin's Onslaught, Hammer and Sickle, River of Heroes and Stalin's Europe, updating all the lists in them and adding new lists.
24. Red Bear, released in December 2011, covering the Allied Forces fighting on the Eastern Front from 1944 to 1945. It replaces Stalin's Onslaught, Hammer and Sickle, River of Heroes and Stalin's Europe, updating all the lists in them and adding new lists.

So after all I have written above, and thinking that V3 book releases have all been for LW as well, in what way do you say that MID-WAR is complete?

Battlefront published ten Mid-War books before compiling them into Afrika and Ostfront, which were later updated in North Africa and Eastern Front. Specifically: Diving Eagles, Old Ironsides, Hitler's Fire Brigade, Desert Rats, Desert Fox, Stalingrad, Stars and Stripes, Avanti Savoia, and Za Stalina. These were all updated for second edition and the Afrika and Ostfront compilations were based on these books. Similar to how the Late War compilations Earth and Steel, Turning Tide, Grey Wolf, Red Bear, Market Garden and Bridge by Bridge.

You can't really say MW points are outdated going by the most recent MW compilations (North Africa and Eastern Front), because MW points costs are consistent within the period. MW points have always been different than LW points, and that was always the intention. Tigers in MW for example cost way more than they do in LW, as they were even more rare during that period than they were during the LW period.

LW does have more books and material than MW currently, but if you want to do an honest comparison, you should compare the number of compilations, not the total number of books.

Something like:
Mid-War:
1. North Africa
2. Eastern Front
3. Mid-War Monsters (I shudder to include that one)

Late War:
1. Earth and Steel
2. Turning Tide
3. Grey Wolf
4. Red Bear
5. Bridge by Bridge
6. Market Garden
7. Cassino

Even then, part of the reason that LW has so many more books is because they've split most of the compilations into an Allies book and an Axis book, while both the MW compilations include both Allied and Axis forces.

The North Africa and Eastern Front books are also very well-rounded and quite well-balanced. What kind of MW army would you want to make that can't be represented by the lists in NA or EF? Keep in mind that NA covers forces in North Africa as well as the Mediterranean. I'm sure there are some niche lists that probably aren't covered, but are there any glaring holes that spring to mind?