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If you fire a torrent weapon at a unit (such as a Baleflamer), are models removed determined by the firing model or the thin end of the template?

They are removed based on the firing model.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
They are removed based on the firing model.

Exactly. Look at the position of the damaged unit (and closest models) from the firing unit.

I discovered this when I vector struck/flamed a unit of plague marines led by typhus.
Both hit the nearest model to my finished position. Typhus tanked the lot, for a cost of 1 wound. Bah.

Preda - Vestor Strike is handled as Random Allocation, as per the FAQ

Torrent allows the template to be placed within 12" of the firing model as long as the small end of the template is closer to the firer. This means that the direction of the small end of the template and the firing model should always be the same... This seems to me that it makes the question unimportant, unless there's something I'm missing.
As nosferatu1001 said, Vector Strike is allocated randomly so positioning of the models has no bearing,(FAQ page 1, right side, second from the bottom), and is different from Torrent.

curious, can a Torrent temple be used to hit the rear of a vehicle, even though you are facing it front/side?

I palyed in a tourney where a Dreadknight blew up a couple of my vehicles because he placed the template over the rear of tanks.
I didnt question it at the time but it did seem wrong at the time.

40k-noob wrote:
curious, can a Torrent temple be used to hit the rear of a vehicle, even though you are facing it front/side?

Look at the rules for vehicle arcs. It makes it very clear.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

40k-noob wrote:
curious, can a Torrent temple be used to hit the rear of a vehicle, even though you are facing it front/side?

Look at the rules for vehicle arcs. It makes it very clear.

ARGH!!!! Dang it!! PAge 73 has it.

that definitely would made a huge difference in my game :(

At the risk of starting another flame war (pun possibly intended), is it correct that Wounds caused by a Torrent weapon cannot be allocated to models Out of Sight of the firer?

So it is not possible to fire a Torrent weapon "round a corner"???

Snapshot wrote:
At the risk of starting another flame war (pun possibly intended), is it correct that Wounds caused by a Torrent weapon cannot be allocated to models Out of Sight of the firer?

So it is not possible to fire a Torrent weapon "round a corner"???

I'm not sure (off-hand) if templates are allowed to even roll to wound models that are out of sight. Assuming they can, you could fire it around corners to generate more wounds to be forced upon the guys in sight.

If I'm not mistaken, template weapons have to be placed where they cover the largest amount of models visible to the firing model. (not hitting any of your own models of course)

It should be a relatively rare occurence to hit models that you cant see.

I've always believed that templates and markers can and do hit and wound models even if they are out of sight. As long as the rules for targeting are followed.

 Happyjew wrote:

Snapshot wrote:
At the risk of starting another flame war (pun possibly intended), is it correct that Wounds caused by a Torrent weapon cannot be allocated to models Out of Sight of the firer?

So it is not possible to fire a Torrent weapon "round a corner"???

I'm not sure (off-hand) if templates are allowed to even roll to wound models that are out of sight. Assuming they can, you could fire it around corners to generate more wounds to be forced upon the guys in sight.

I don't think there are restrictions on templates (or blasts) hitting models out of sight. My reading is the same as yours, that hits and wounds can be generated on OOS models, but it's the one's in sight that wear them. I just wasn't sure if there was something else special about Torrent.

If a model is hit be a template/blast out of sight the hit still counts, but wounds can't be allocated to models that are out of sight.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Preda - Vector Strike is handled as Random Allocation, as per the FAQ

Thanks - Thats just made things a little easier

Idolator - nothing requires them to hit the most models IN sight, just the most models total.

You have no restriction on hitting or generating wounds, but have the same restriction as any normal weapon on allocating to out of sight models.

Templates and blasts can wound models out of LOS. It's says so under templates and blasts special rule.

sam918 wrote:
Templates and blasts can wound models out of LOS. It's says so under templates and blasts special rule.

No, it doesn't.

Blasts state they may hit and wound models out of range and LOS. There is no mention of LOS at all under Templates however.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Blasts state they may hit and wound models out of range and LOS. There is no mention of LOS at all under Templates however.

Again, no they don't. The bolded word doesn't exist where you think it does.

Oh, yeah. It says units. Which are composed of models.

Wounding a unit is substantially different from wounding a model.
Wound a unit you have to allocate wounds, wound a model there is no allocation to be done.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Oh, yeah. It says units. Which are composed of models.

Correct.
Now - you have permission to wound the unit. Note that wounding the unit (rolling to wound) is a separate process from allocating wounds (page 12 - RTW is step 4, Allocate is step 5).
Find permission to allocate wounds to models out of sight.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Wounding a unit is substantially different from wounding a model.
Wound a unit you have to allocate wounds, wound a model there is no allocation to be done.

You can't wounds units.

Units do not have stats like Toughness or Wounds.

Only models have those stats. Therefor you are wounding the Models in the Unit.

So what is majority toughness?
You target a unit and you roll to wound against that target. That target is still a unit.
Removing casualties at the beginning refers to the target and to the unit.
Check page 12-15.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
So what is majority toughness?

The majority toughness of the models in the unit.

I think you should check the rest of the edited post.
Also in that paragraph on majority toughness it still says the unit is the target of shooting.

So for a distinction. Perils and gets hot wound a model, same as DT. Shooting, cc and some non shooting or cc units generate a wound pool these wounds are allocated to models in a unit as the target for the attack was the unit.
Do you see the distinction.

40k-noob wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Wounding a unit is substantially different from wounding a model.
Wound a unit you have to allocate wounds, wound a model there is no allocation to be done.

You can't wounds units.

Units do not have stats like Toughness or Wounds.

Only models have those stats. Therefor you are wounding the Models in the Unit.

100% incorrect. You wound the unit (roll to wound, note the specific language used) and then you allocate Wounds to models

Please review the rules before posting

Which makes the sentence about wounding units out of LOS useless.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Wounding a unit is substantially different from wounding a model.
Wound a unit you have to allocate wounds, wound a model there is no allocation to be done.

You can't wounds units.

Units do not have stats like Toughness or Wounds.

Only models have those stats. Therefor you are wounding the Models in the Unit.

100% incorrect. You wound the unit (roll to wound, note the specific language used) and then you allocate Wounds to models

Please review the rules before posting

Where does a "Unit" have a Toughness value or a Wound value?