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This happened on a friendly game at my LGS. I was playing against a friend's CSM and we were both testing daemon allies. My friend just built his bela´kor model and is going to use him as a daemon prince, he mounted on a MC base and everything but... since the model is really old just like old abaddon it is the smallest of all the daemon princes. My herald of Khorne was the same size as him, it was funny to look at him, however the fun ended when he landed behind a 1 lvl ruin, the model was hardly visible to my havocs, but still they could all see him and shot at him. However... since the actual model was cover mostly by the ruins he argued that he was allowed the 4+ cover given by the ruins.

I told him that the model isn't actually behind the ruin, I mean, how can it be flying and having hard to hit but he is inside a ruin at the same time. There is no rule telling you that FMCs can't claim cover at least none that we can found. The only thing remotely backing me up was that FMCs don't take dangerous terrain tests when placed on difficult terrain, because their bases just like flyers aren't really on the table. Again there is no similar rule for the FMCs. At the end we just threw a dice, but this can be a real issue if say using a nurgle DP, being behind a ruin would give him 2+ cover save while flying.

Well even flyers can claim cover depending how tall the buildings(for example) are. then again... As for FMC 's i'm not so sure but why would he get a 2+ cover save while flying?
Jink/dive does not stack with terrain.

Nurgle Demon Princes have Shrouded - +2 cover save, so a 2+ in ruins.

And yes - FMCs and Flyers use TLOS - so if they're obscured they get the save.

Nurgle DP's get shrouding, so one behind ruins would get a 2+ cover save.

phatonic wrote:
Well even flyers can claim cover depending how tall the buildings(for example) are. then again... As for FMC 's i'm not so sure but why would he get a 2+ cover save while flying?
Jink/dive does not stack with terrain.

A DP of nurgle has shroud, meaning that behind a ruin it is 2+ cover save. And yeah for flyers it is hard to claim cover since they are mounted on tall bases where only real buildings can provide cover but for FMC like the Hive tyrant or the daemon princes they are twice, maybe three times the sice of a marine and are mounted at ground level, so pretty much anything can grant them cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Nurgle Demon Princes have Shrouded - +2 cover save, so a 2+ in ruins.

And yes - FMCs and Flyers use TLOS - so if they're obscured they get the save.

Yup guess there is nothing to stop them from claiming them, a swooping MC would get cover from the ADL for example while the flyer don't.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yup guess there is nothing to stop them from claiming them, a swooping MC would get cover from the ADL for example while the flyer don't.

Only if the FMC is 25% obscured. What is really odd, is the fact that a FMC can claim cover from area terrain while Swooping.

 Happyjew wrote:
What is really awesome, is the fact that a FMC can claim cover from area terrain while Swooping.

FTFY in bold.
>.>

Depends who you ask. Ask a Tyranid/Daemon player it is awesome. Ask opponent of said Tyranid/Daemon player...it's messed up.

Nothing annoys an opponent more than having 5 FMCs swooping from cover to cover.

It's a change that continues to trip people up - at a tournament at the beginning of the month 3 out of 7 of my opponents disagreed when I claimed a cover save for standing in area terrain. I had to get a TO to come over. :-/

 Happyjew wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yup guess there is nothing to stop them from claiming them, a swooping MC would get cover from the ADL for example while the flyer don't.

Only if the FMC is 25% obscured.

I think you are miscalculating how much 25% of a FMC is. FMC's aren't as tall as they sound, the ADL covers on some of it's sections a whole marine which would be around 40% of a MC height, the smaller parts can easily confer the 25%

It isnt height, but model. 25% of a trygon is not 25% of the height of the model

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yup guess there is nothing to stop them from claiming them, a swooping MC would get cover from the ADL for example while the flyer don't.

Only if the FMC is 25% obscured.

I think you are miscalculating how much 25% of a FMC is. FMC's aren't as tall as they sound, the ADL covers on some of it's sections a whole marine which would be around 40% of a MC height, the smaller parts can easily confer the 25%

It depends on the model. I've seen scratch-built Harpies that would get no save from an ADL to modified 2nd ed Hive Tyrants that are easily blocked by new-age Zonathropes.

Yeah, I guess scratchbuilds would depend a lot but most if not all the GW official MCs will get the save... wel.. except the tervigon and the tyrannofex, haven't seen them in the flesh but they seem to be huge

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yeah, I guess scratchbuilds would depend a lot but most if not all the GW official MCs will get the save... wel.. except the tervigon and the tyrannofex, haven't seen them in the flesh but they seem to be huge

We're talking FMCs not regular MCs.

Yeah he gets cover, subject to 25% obscured as usual.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yeah, I guess scratchbuilds would depend a lot but most if not all the GW official MCs will get the save... wel.. except the tervigon and the tyrannofex, haven't seen them in the flesh but they seem to be huge

We're talking FMCs not regular MCs.

Which are MC with wings (which doesn't count for the LoS of the model), therefore are the same size as normal MCs and mounted on the same bases at the same height if my DP/HT has wings or not doesn't matter FMC or MC still would get the same cover from any terrain.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yeah, I guess scratchbuilds would depend a lot but most if not all the GW official MCs will get the save... wel.. except the tervigon and the tyrannofex, haven't seen them in the flesh but they seem to be huge

We're talking FMCs not regular MCs.

Which are MC with wings (which doesn't count for the LoS of the model), therefore are the same size as normal MCs and mounted on the same bases at the same height if my DP/HT was wings or not he still would get the same cover from any terrain.

I thought it was 25% of the model, not 25% of the targetable portion of the model.

Edit: Double-checked, it is 25% of the targetable portion. my bad.

Of course they can get cover from terrain, so can Flyers. What on earth makes people think they can't?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Of course they can get cover from terrain, so can Flyers. What on earth makes people think they can't?

Well as mentioned above with the ADL or any low terrain flyers are mounted on special bases which deny these "low height terrain", so kinda doesn't make sense that the FMC can be inside a ruin for example while swooping or hiding behind a MEQ tall model to claim the cover. But it seems like they are indeed flying a millimeter above the ground level while swooping therefore get the same cover as if they weren't.

Nothing about being a Flyer or a FMC prevents you from getting cover like any other model.

They follow the 25% rule as normal.

Are FMCs suposed to be mounted differently?

As there have been no official models for these FMCs besides rules.

I would give them cover saves if they stand on top of a Flying stand and are still covered.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Nothing about being a Flyer or a FMC prevents you from getting cover like any other model.

They follow the 25% rule as normal.

Yeah, there are nothing preventing them from claiming cover RAW, maybe should change the poll to SHOULD they gain cover? but is to late now.

 Makutsu wrote:
Are FMCs suposed to be mounted differently?

As there have been no official models for these FMCs besides rules.

The Flyrant has an official model and it's slightly taller than a walking Tyrant.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Are FMCs suposed to be mounted differently?

As there have been no official models for these FMCs besides rules.

The Flyrant has an official model and it's slightly taller than a walking Tyrant.

There are also winged Deamon Prince models.

And as mentioned above the wings doesn't count for the 25% cover so the DP is exactly the same as the normal DP. The HT does indeed have some elevation due to his tail. Which makes sense. Guess this would only affect the DPs :S

rigeld2 wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Are FMCs suposed to be mounted differently?

As there have been no official models for these FMCs besides rules.

The Flyrant has an official model and it's slightly taller than a walking Tyrant.

Ok, then that's fine as long as GW put it out and says that this is a Flyrant then sure.

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Are FMCs suposed to be mounted differently?

As there have been no official models for these FMCs besides rules.

The Flyrant has an official model and it's slightly taller than a walking Tyrant.

There are also winged Deamon Prince models.

Winged Daemon Princes doesn't means it's an FMC unless GW specifically says that we are now using this model as the official FMC.

 Makutsu wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Are FMCs suposed to be mounted differently?

As there have been no official models for these FMCs besides rules.

The Flyrant has an official model and it's slightly taller than a walking Tyrant.

There are also winged Deamon Prince models.

Winged Daemon Princes doesn't means it's an FMC unless GW specifically says that we are now using this model as the official FMC.

There's an official Daemon Prince model, with the option of wings (plastic kit).
The rules for Daemon Princes (Codex Chaos Space Marines) allow for taking wings, making it a FMC. how much more official do you need?

rigeld2 wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Are FMCs suposed to be mounted differently?

As there have been no official models for these FMCs besides rules.

The Flyrant has an official model and it's slightly taller than a walking Tyrant.

The Hive Tyrant has an optional cinematic pose to use with wings. There is no requirement on using said pose when fielding a Flyrant. I'd be pretty annoyed if there was, considering it makes it more fragile, harder to transport and much more difficult to magnetise and switch between winged and walking Tyrants.

As stated before the FMC does get cover, as long as it is 25% covered. This is the benefit of having very old models, I suppose. As far as issues with getting them cover, I think the amount of cover they can get is offset by the grounding tests, something that regular flyers do not have to deal with at all....