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How in the hell, short of scatter laser spam which leaves you open to AV13, can Eldar beat wraiths? I cannot build a list I'm even the slightest bit confident in against necrons as Eldar. What am I missing?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should elaborate. My friend plays Necrons. I play Eldar. It seems every time I throw up a defense against one list, he builds another completely counter to it. Tactically, I keep overextending while building a list because I don't trust dice to save me as they never have when I needed them. At the same time, I don't know how one builds a balanced list against a flyer, AV13, MSS, Imotek, Destroyers, Spiders, and now wraiths.

20 harlequins, both with shadowseers and 2 fusion pistols, eldrad, Yriel. That unit kills anything. Interspace the two harlequin units so he is forced to disorganized assault if he wants to actually kill more than 2-3. Doom the wraiths on your turn and fortune the two units. If you place right he will have to disoginized charge. That then gives you ~60A at WS5, so 40 hits, 5s to wound, so 22 wounds on the wraiths before eldrad and Yriel (that number may be less depending on what whips hit and how many he has). Eldrad and Yriel would throw ~3 more on, so 25 wounds, killing 4 of them. Throw the wounds on eldrad if <15 wounds and he should be perfectly fine with T4. Hit and run off the wraiths, shoot them with the fusion pistols, then charge back in at S4 or go for another target. With 2 units you can even split up and go for other things.

strong vs destroyers, strong vs AV13, spiders and scarabs, and ignores fliers or uses the other points to grab a bunch of cannon war walkers to kill them. Vs MSS nothing is strong, but with all inv saves you can survive your own hits while you kill the unit. One passed MSS test and his lord/d lord is dead.

When playing eldar, reserves are your friends. Reserve your troops and anything you need to come into play later. Imotek's storm probably will abate turn 2-3 meaning you can ignore much of the damage from it. Let your 2+ rerollable harlequins absorb all the damage while they close and outflank cannon war walkers in to arrive about the same time.

Crons really arent a problem to harlequin lists, they simply dont hav

You're not on the wrong track, the way to kill wraiths is just make them roll enough dice. They are still just two wound marines for toughness purposes and making your opponent roll a lot of dice is an eldar specialty.

Scatter laser and shuirken spam works great not just on warwalkers but waveserpents and yes even dire avengers.

In terms of a general matchup, however, it is tough for eldar. Necrons have one of, if not the, most powerful codexes at the moment and eldar ... well they don't. You still have some tools though.

You're quite mobile and firedragons still rock (especially on a quad gun). Eldrad and the avatar are still sick and a seer council with destructor spam can put a whole heap of wounds very fast. You also have access to lance weapons (which helps counter that AV13+) and wraithlords are actually quite tough for meta lists to deal with.

It's an old codex versus a tough one but it's manageable and you can handle it.

Thanks for the suggestion on the harlies, but foot slogging when he's majority moving 12 inches makes it a bit tough, unless I'm using them as a counter attacking unit. Do they really get 2+ cover save out in the open? I thought it was a 4+ save max unless in ruins or other cover.

Dire avengers would definitely have been a better choice of troops instead of the guardians. Any suggestions on what troops to default to against Necrons?

dunno about troops, but one of my friends ran a seriously small-scale list, with almost 1200 points in a Warlock squad with attached Eldrad & Yriel.

That single unit took out pretty much all of what he killed in total.

So a foot seer council with both of them in it? how did he not just have everything keep 12-14 inches away?

Scatter lasers. With guide. They seriously wreck my Wraiths. 3++ is good, but not when you have to make 20+ saves in a given turn.

I'm a Necron player myself, so these suggestions are coming from a less-knowledgeable point of view. But...

You could try bikes. If your major concern is his Wraith unit, then field something that they cannot hope to catch. GJB squads, Jetseer Councils, and so on.

Night Fighting, courtesy of Imotekh, could be of benefit to you. Depending on range he cannot fire upon you (nor you upon him) without either whiffing it or going up against a boosted cover save. Use this fact to keep your forces in favorable positions, denying him opportunities to shoot without moving forward.

If he decides to play keep-away, then that means his Wraiths will either be advancing up the table alone or hanging out with the rest of his army, being useless.

Since he only has one flyer, put a Fire Dragon squad behind an ADL with a Quad-Gun. With an Exarch, they'll eat the Scythe for breakfast. Also remember that flyers must start in reserves (if I'm wrong somebody please chime in) which gives you some time to prepare.

Against AV13, you've really no choice but to throw Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent at it, although as an Eldar player, you should be pretty used to doing that anyway. =P

What you could try are Dark Reapers (don't laugh; hear me out) with a Quad-Gun ADL. Give the Exarch Crack Shot and try to have 4-5 Reapers if possible. Instead of wasting fragons at an ADL, sit the reapers there with the Exarch in base contact with the Quad-Gun, use them to take out the spyders. Spiders are T6 with 3 wounds each, yes, but they only have a 3+ save.

Using Fragons to toast them is pointless, since they won't be IDed and you'll perhaps kill one - the closest - before your fragons are charged and eaten. Trying to use Scatter Lasers or weight of fire (I.E. bladestorming avengers) will take them away from the Wraiths, and being T4 W2, the Wraiths are more vulnerable to that than the spyders. The reapers, however, can sit in the backfield, with a handful of them spitting out a decent amount of S5 AP3 fire. Yes, you need 5s to wound with a reaper launcher, but if you have 4 reapers and an exarch, that's 10 shots (2 of which re-roll failed wounds), 2 of them at BS5.

It also provides a nice solution to your Destroyer problem (being behind the Aegis all but negates the destroyers' AP3, and reaper launchers outrange gauss cannons by 12" IIRC) and with the Quad-Gun, gives you a solution to the flier issue, too, in the form of 4 TL BS5 S7 shots that ignore cover (so not even Imhotek can help it).

With the reapers, you can kill 3 birds with 1 stone, and sitting behind the defence line gives you a very nice cover save, which Imhotek can even improve for you.

Another possible counter to Spyders are Pathfinders, who can sit behind the ADL with the Reapers and whittle down the spyders with AP1 or Rending shots, and will negate their T6 by always wounding them on 4s. They can also be used to try and snipe out crypteks.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Another possible counter to Spyders are Pathfinders, who can sit behind the ADL with the Reapers and whittle down the spyders with AP1 or Rending shots, and will negate their T6 by always wounding them on 4s. They can also be used to try and snipe out crypteks.

Spot on except for this part. The only use Pathfinders fill well is upgrade sniping (they are snipers, after all). Go for those precision shots and put the AP1 or rend on the missile launcher/sarge/PF/whatever scares you. Against necrons, that'd be the guy with the Res Orb, not the Spyders.

Pathfinders are absolute garbage this edition. 120 points into a 5 man unit nets you 1 rending wound a turn. Waste of points. You have 1/12 chance of actually getting a precision shot, then a 50% chance that lord with res orb just stands up. If its an overlord, you need something like 50 shots to have a chance of shooting him out of his units. At that point, just kill the unit.

Walking harlequins are faster than you think. Since they can ignore difficult terrain and have fleet, they essentially move 10.5" per turn (fleet rerolls runs too, though eldrad's unit doesnt have fleet). For most wraith players, you dont need to catch them, they will come to you. If he doesnt, start running at his troops and AV13 and he will come after you in a hurry. One harlequin squad will butcher any cron vehicle in assault of blow it up with pistols. You can even disorginized charge as long as yriel can punch the vehicle.

As for getting a 2+ save, all you need is 25% of a model obscured or area terrain since they get +3 to cover saves. If you play with the reccomended 25% of cover on the board you should have a pretty simply route you can take to get to the enemy while maximizing cover. It may not be the most direct, but hitting them by turn 3 means you have 2-3 more turns to walk through his line. Even with a 4+ with rerolls the unit is tougher than MEQ. Sticking Yriel or Eldrad in the front is also an option since the increased save can really mitigate quantity of fire attacks. Eldrad is 1.5x harder to wound than a terminator and can LOS S8 shots to other guys if needed. Yriel also has the same durability, but S6 with ID him and crons have more of that. Also destroyers ignore his 3+ meaning he will be LOS a lot of wounds.


Mech eldar is dead, dont try the fire dragon party wagon tactic this edition. Necrons love shooting vehicles to bits, especially when the vehicle comes to them. the A barge is really tho only scare vehicle they have at AV13 and that thing is 24" range and rather slow when firing. Outflanking WW can often find rear arch or harlequins can get close and punch/fusion it. If you need more dakka to take them down, Warp Spiders are a good solution. necrons lack a lot of AP3, meaninng spiders survive longer than vs most armies. 3 units of 5 with exarch and dual catapults is expensive but really can mess with how necrons want to engage you.

Well, Harlies could be an answer to Necrons. If they are in cover, they will get a big boost on their cover save.
Warwalkers with missile launcher would also help to take on AV13 vehicles.
Warwalkers with scatter lasers are nice against AV11 flyers.
Another option would be a Seer Council. If on foot, add a PL like Fuegan for extra survivability. If on jetbikes, they will be fast enough to take on Necron troops once they got deployed from the Night Scythes.

 xlEternitylx wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Another possible counter to Spyders are Pathfinders, who can sit behind the ADL with the Reapers and whittle down the spyders with AP1 or Rending shots, and will negate their T6 by always wounding them on 4s. They can also be used to try and snipe out crypteks.

Spot on except for this part. The only use Pathfinders fill well is upgrade sniping (they are snipers, after all). Go for those precision shots and put the AP1 or rend on the missile launcher/sarge/PF/whatever scares you. Against necrons, that'd be the guy with the Res Orb, not the Spyders.

The guy with the res orb will almost always be protected by a 2+ Look Out, Sir!, making it almost pointless trying to take him out. Crypteks will only ever have a 4+ LO,S! and not many people take Necron Lords at all, so it's unlikely one of those will be anywhere.

Bear in mind that Pathfinders can also be used to hold an objective in cover, since Necrons have exceedingly few things that actually ignore cover and any tesla weapons will be aimed at your other units instead of forcing saves on the pathfinders. The point of using them to help take out the Spyders is that they can hide in terrain and help the reapers by knocking off a wound or two to make their job easier; I'm not suggesting them in any way as a hard-counter. 120pts Might seem like a lot for 5 models, but amongst everything else he has to counter, 5 models with 2+ cover saves (perhaps even fortuned if you have a Farseer nearby) are going to be exceedingly hard to shift without the Necrons throwing everything they have at them. Other armies can deep-strike heavy flamers or similar, but the closest the Necrons have to a counter against pathfinders is a Death and Despair squad, but they're already more expensive than the pathfinders, so he makes a points-loss by using them as a counter. It also means that he has to pull something else from his list to afford the counter, and you can capitalise on that.

I agree with the Harlies; those guys are awesome at everything. You just have to know how to use them properly.

Depending on what you are taking for troopps, but you could always take 1 or 2 gaurdian squads with a bright lance heavy weapons platform. They have the lance special rule which laughs at ar 13 and 14. Just an option too.

Can a warlock fire the platform weapon though? I don't trust a Lance at BS 3 to hit anything unless there's 3 of them, let alone win it's points back.

And it sounds more and more like a footdar list supported by long range firepower against Necrons is really the way to go, even if he's running AV13 walls. I'm a little concerned though. I mean the point differential is so high. Example: Flyer is 100 points, but ADL to down it is 200+. A annihilation barge is 90ish, but a bright lance alone is 40. Unless we're playing 1.5k+ games, I see a real issue trying to fit all the into a list.

At that point value though, I'm loving the 10 man Warlock jetbike seers + 2 Farseers (1 with fortune and doom, another with stones and 4 cheapest powers for maximum chance to get invisibility from BRB powers). Yeah it's 1000 points for 12 models, but holy crap does it look promising as hell.

deathmagiks wrote:
Can a warlock fire the platform weapon though? I don't trust a Lance at BS 3 to hit anything unless there's 3 of them, let alone win it's points back.

The Weapon Platform that Guardians must take can only be fired by the two Guardians who crew it. However, the Warlock is a crew member for the Support Weapon Battery (HS) and thus can fire one.

Was that FAQ'd? I was under the impression any model in base to base contact with the gun could fire it after re-reading the codex

I'll take that as a no lol

One of you is talking about guardian weapon platforms, the other about quadguns.

that explains it then. Ok thanks.