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So this came up in a game the other day, moved a tactical squad up to an enemy squad to double tap, only 3 models of the 10 were within those 12" so my opponent said that since the rapid fire is only range 12" only those three models within that range could die. Is this a correct ruling or does the kill range extend to the whole 24"?

Dawnofthedoug wrote:
So this came up in a game the other day, moved a tactical squad up to an enemy squad to double tap, only 3 models of the 10 were within those 12" so my opponent said that since the rapid fire is only range 12" only those three models within that range could die. Is this a correct ruling or does the kill range extend to the whole 24"?

In theory a boltgun's maximum range should mean that it's shots don't suddenly stop at half range neo-style, but knowing GW, your opponent may be right...

The rapid fire ones get to hit the closest normal bolter shots (longer range) the ones further back.

Rapid fire doesn't change your weapons range - it's still a 24" range bolter. You just roll extra dice inside 12".

No, Rapid fire only grants the shooter an extra shot at 12" range, it does not limit the range of the bolter. It is still 24" range.

The range on a bolter is 24", if you have a target within 12" you can fire 2 shots. Per the FAQ if an enemy model is in range of at least one weapon when you begin shooting that model can have a wound allocated to it. So long as all 10 were within 24" and bolter within 12" of an enemy can fire two shots and wound the entire unit, since the bolters range is 24"

Is it the same situation for Meltas shooting a vehicle squadron if only the first vehicle is within the 2D6 penetration range?

You measure range to the unit, and a Squadron is a unit

 vossyvo wrote:
Is it the same situation for Meltas shooting a vehicle squadron if only the first vehicle is within the 2D6 penetration range?

With the way squadron rules work I would say no. You would roll 2d6 against the nearest model, when that model died you would assess half range to the next model in the squadron. The hit counts, but since model to model is no longer half range you'd lose melta. That being said I'm at work and can't reference the BRB

andystache wrote:

 vossyvo wrote:
Is it the same situation for Meltas shooting a vehicle squadron if only the first vehicle is within the 2D6 penetration range?

With the way squadron rules work I would say no. You would roll 2d6 against the nearest model, when that model died you would assess half range to the next model in the squadron. The hit counts, but since model to model is no longer half range you'd lose melta. That being said I'm at work and can't reference the BRB

You're correct. The vehicle squadron rules are quite explict then when shooting at them you roll to hit all at once, but then you resolve each hit one at a time. So if the first model is inside 6", once that's dead, further hits being allocated to models outside 6" of the meltaguns will not get the 2d6.

Arent meltaguns still based on being within half range to the unit?

How many times do you measure range to the unit?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Arent meltaguns still based on being within half range to the unit?

How many times do you measure range to the unit?

It actually doesn't mention units in the USR. It just says that you roll an additional D6 to pen at half range or less. So you would technically determine half range at the time of rolling for glance/pen, and with squadrons you are supposed to allocate individual hits, prior to rolling for glance/pen.

This is much easier than people are making it sound.

Just think of order of operations!

1. You declare your target.

2.Measure to make sure you have range.

I think HERE is the confusion. If all of your models can hit at least 1 enemy model with in 12" then they ALL get 2 shots per rapid fire. If one of your firing models is more than 12" from any single enemy unit get, 1 shot per rapid fire. Note this is before any wounds are allocated!!

3. Roll to hit like normal.

4. Roll to wound like normal.

5. Roll saves. Now losses do NOT reduces shots to 1 per rapid fire because suddenly guys are more than 12". Range is based before any deaths.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?365511-Rapid-fire-and-Modals-out-of-range


Here is 15 pages of text on the subject.

Now there is no reason to repeat it here.

CYBORK wrote:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?365511-Rapid-fire-and-Modals-out-of-range


Here is 15 pages of text on the subject.

Now there is no reason to repeat it here.

???

Thanks for the 15 page link with the same crap we have here and not really helping the situation... Plus its not even the same website so its like its a double post. Could you not have summarized the 15 page hot mess to resolve this situation instead of just adding to the crap above?

 tyjet3 wrote:

CYBORK wrote:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?365511-Rapid-fire-and-Modals-out-of-range


Here is 15 pages of text on the subject.

Now there is no reason to repeat it here.

???

Thanks for the 15 page link with the same crap we have here and not really helping the situation... Plus its not even the same website so its like its a double post. Could you not have summarized the 15 page hot mess to resolve this situation instead of just adding to the crap above?

The point of my post was to show that this thread is pointless. Noone can reach an agreement on the subject. It will remain so until GW clears it up in the FAQ.
there is no need to turn this thread into another 15 pages of the same.

This thread is not pointless, the rules are clear on the subject.

That being: Bolters have a 24" range.

The Rapid fire type only grants the shooter an extra shot at half range, it does not limit the range of the Bolter (Or other rapid fire weapon).

Wasn't the common consensus that RAW as long as one weapon on the unit gets to range you are free to wound anything inside that "long range" weapon even if the most of the models only got into range of 1-2 models?

Say, a squad of 10 marines, 9 bolters and 1 heavy bolter, 9 bolters get at 24" to only 2 models, the HB cover the full 10 models on the enemy unit, the bolters score say 5 wounds, they can kill 5 models even though they only get into range of 2, since the heavy bolter makes the unit's range 36" instead of 24".

Regarding the topic meaning than even if you have 12" weapons as long as you have bolters those 12" can wound models outside the range up to 24"

Yes, that's correct.