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Ok so has anyone else thought of how cool soporific musk really is ?

For instance the rule basically reduces the unit that the fiends charge initiative by 5 meaning that if the unit that they charge has initiative 5 or lower their initiative drops to 0 and when a model has an initiative of 0 it cannot make attacks in the assault phase.

Basically meaning when a fiend makes a charge only fiends will be able to make any attacks and not the opponent in the initial round of combat

Having saying that what are some tactics you guys could use with these guys ?

 Bonkz wrote:
Ok so has anyone else thought of how cool soporific musk really is ?

For instance the rule basically reduces the unit that the fiends charge initiative by 5 meaning that if the unit that they charge has initiative 5 or lower their initiative drops to 0 and when a model has an initiative of 0 it cannot make attacks in the assault phase.

Basically meaning when a fiend makes a charge only fiends will be able to make any attacks and not the opponent in the initial round of combat

Having saying that what are some tactics you guys could use with these guys ?

That whole 0 initiative argument is raging right now over in YMDC. So ignore that as a benefit, because until it is FAQ'd it will almost certainly be played as capping out at 1.

Anyway, for all their speed I've had issues with them. Sure, they're fast, but they're also T4 with no EW. A squad of 5 fire dragons overwatched and (with some lucky 6s) managed to kill 2 of them right off the bat. Their initiative power is nice if you are attacking something that relies heavily on I - read: harlequins. They attack after, with a 5++ to tie them over? Killed a whole bunch and weakened the unit considerably. So all in all, pick the right target and you're golden, otherwise, they're useless (imo).

If the 0 Initiative = no attacks does become true I see this unit becoming very popular. However I would note that I highly doubt GW will be FAQing it as no attacks. It is more likely that it will be capped at 1.

they are very much not useless. Their other ability to debuff psykers is useful. Use them as a psyker hunting squad. Yes eldar have harlequins. And tyranids have some fast stuff. and DE have some. picking and choosing your target is a part of the tactics. saying they are useless because of harlequins is like saying nurglings are useless because of wall of death. are they going to come out of that instance smiling? prob not. Does that one instance make them useless. Not by a long shot.

as for tactics with them you could run a mounted herald with them for multiple benefits... beguile is worth it with any slaaneshi daemon. ML2 and Telepathy are beautiful things providing you with a chance for hallucinate - cause them to either strike themselves or stand around doing nothing while you hit them (that is actually written in the psykik power and not something we are waiting on a faq for ) You have a chance for Invisibility which provides your fragile fiends with shooting defense and a measure of melee defense.

Also with outflank you can place them where needed without having to have an icon within 6". and move through cover + the -5 init helps with this as if you outflank into cover then assault the following turn you are usually going to at least strike at the same time. (unless faq does rule in favor that init 0 = 0 attacks at which your init 1 will be hitting first with usually no return swings)

Personally I prefer seekers to fiends, but that is more a taste in the models themselves than the rules.

I think 2-3 min units could really support a beast/cav heavy force well. They are one of the few Daemon answers to a lack of grenades. The anti-psyker is a nice bonus as well.

I'm gonna be running both fiends and seekers. GW often allows stats to be modified to 0, with the exception of attacks. "If S or T reaches 0, the model dies" is a common enough occurrence. So I have no reason to believe they'd cap this at 1, when other stats can go to 0 and any time it's been capped, it's been specified. I'm gonna play this ruling as how it's been preceded with other similar rulings. Fiends and KoS+witstealer is gonna be the tits.

Blame borderlands 2 for that statement.

no rule can make a stat be brought above 10 or below 1 (except wounds or attacks) unless specifically stated otherwise pg 2-3 BRB

the demon rule doesnt specifically state otherwise
the rules that DO bring stats to 0 DO specfically state they can do so

Well, this side of Dakka is not for rules discussions, but I doubt Fiends will lower the I to 0 if its adressed by the faq, mostly because it would be to good a unit for this codex. Like the rest of the units in the book they are obviously ment to be quite mediocre unless you use it in harmony with a bunch of other treats. *bitter LOL*

Whatever the -In comes to be faqed a squad of 3 will be a great addition to my CSM army. Running the juggy with some spawns and the fiends behind them will be an awesome combo.

 keltikhoa wrote:
. Yes eldar have harlequins. And tyranids have some fast stuff. and DE have some. picking and choosing your target is a part of the tactics. saying they are useless because of harlequins is like saying nurglings are useless because of wall of death. are they going to come out of that instance smiling? prob not. Does that one instance make them useless. Not by a long shot.

Pardon, I must have worded it poorly. They wreaked the Harlequins, not the other way around. That's what I meant - send them after a unit that is like a glass cannon but has high I (even wyches fall into this) and smash those guys up. That's what I've found them best for.