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I was wondering, have they ever given exact numbers for the composition of battlefleet solar? Considering the size of EoT bastion fleets, I would assume BFS has atleast 20 battleships to use with probably hundreds of cruisers.

It's big, probably bigger than the other Imperial battlefleets, given that it's role is to defend the Imperial Homeland. Considering that Battlefleet Obscuras supposedly has 600+ Lunar-class ships, it'd probably be safe to assume that Battlefleet Solar has much more.

But that is an entire segmentum. I kinda meant the fleet stationed to exclusively protect the solar system

I don't know about the Terran Defense Fleet, but Battlefleet Solar actually refers to the Imperial Navy's naval assets in the Segmentum Solar.

Battlefleet Solar is massive, it consists of fleets defending Holy Terra, Saturn shipyards and Adeptus Mecahnicus personal fleet.
And that's for Solar system only, you also have fleets for every sector: Necronumda, Aramgeddon, Ryza, Elysia...

It is so large that it alters the orbit of all planets in the solar system.

 Amaya wrote:
It is so large that it alters the orbit of all planets in the solar system.

Very funny.

There's no definitive numbers on any Battlefleet really, save for specific mentions of individual systems or crusade fleets in BL novels, or in FW books. The Sol system has always been described, however, as being the most heavily defended place in the galaxy, which no existant fleet could breach, not only due to its enormous fleet assets, but the enormous numbers of defensive emplacements, such as the Lunar fortresses, and some of the most powerful ground forces in existance, including the Grey Knights, numerous Martian Titan Legions (Along with Ordinati), the Adeptus Custodes and many others.

Basically, all you can do is assume "big."

Bloomshadow wrote:
But that is an entire segmentum. I kinda meant the fleet stationed to exclusively protect the solar system

Segmentum Solar is smaller than other Segmentums. Its basically only the immediate area around Terra.


Big is really the only word that can be properly used.

Impressively large. Pants-gakkingly so, even.

But not so big that it can stop 4 necron raiders from bypassing it and making a landing on Mars.
But then necrons are a bit special. Can be hard to bring them to battle if they don't want to.

The Necron ships were immediatly vaporized upon landing, literally vaporized.

Necron ships are fast, really fast. That is their main advantage.


In BFG, a Necron fleet can cross the entire table in one turn if they want to.

I'm not disputing that.
But they still managed to evade any and all fleets present, and any round orbit on Mars (and I would expect a few. Also what exactly vaporised them. I'd always assumed it to be the Martian defences rather than a fleet.

Personally I'd always imagine the terran fleet to be comparable if not a bit bigger to the cadian Gate defences, although the vessels they have access to are much more ornate and venerable.

It was 5 Shroud light cruisers and the attack was 998.M41. Necron ships have no shields but do have their living metal armor. The Shrouds did not trigger the orbital mines around Mars due to their stealth armor (which is reflected in BFG rules), although the orbital weapon platforms did fire on them. Their living armor enabled them to endure, although sheer weight of fire eventually crippled one of them. However, the remaining Shrouds fired and destroyed the crippled straggler, using the resulting explosion to further mask their approach to the Martian surface. All were eventually destroyed after being pursued by AdMech forces, but not before 1 actually landed. It is unknown what, if anything or anyone was able to get off the ship before it was destroyed.

 Eetion wrote:
I'm not disputing that.
But they still managed to evade any and all fleets present, and any round orbit on Mars (and I would expect a few. Also what exactly vaporised them. I'd always assumed it to be the Martian defences rather than a fleet.
.

That's exactly what the Shrouds are designed for. They're the fastest, most stealth capable ships in a race with technology so advanced it's like magic.

It makes more sense for a smaller number of ships to breach the defences than a larger number. It's not like there's a wall around the Solar system. Space is big, very big and filled with stuff. The Imperial's probably didn't know they were there until it was too late to stop them getting close enough.

 Eetion wrote:
But not so big that it can stop 4 necron raiders from bypassing it and making a landing on Mars.

That was in 3'rd edition ( BFG belongs here too so it's outdated now ), if we take into account the stuff from new codex the Mars raid never happened.
Necron ships are to slow and to underpowered to face Imperial Navy, first they need centuries to get to Sol System and even then they lack the speed to maneuver the faster IN ships. And in the end they lack the firepower too, now Space Marine fleet can destroy Necron fleet with ease, never mind the Imperial Navy - especially the Adeptus Mechanicus fleet.
Everything you need to read about this you can find in Necron codex 6'th edition pages 8 and pages 27.

BFG remains valid for seemingly everyone but 'crons. I don't see why Ward felt he needed to change them from being a powerful spacegoing race, to one of the weakest. Boggles the mind really, and is another case of "I'm ignoring it," until there's an update for BFG (HA, if only), or some other definitive update on affairs in space.

How does the new codex change the mars raid?

I'm pretty sure the necrons still have powerful ships as of the new codex. The only thing thats changed is their FTL method.

And they also still have world engines, wouldn't make sense their only spacecraft be planetoids.

Also the necron codex makes several mentions of necron spaceships used during their war campaigns, I very much doubt these would be the pre-transformation torch ships.

Can we get some page references for the "nerf" to Necron spaceships please? Because the only references I can find in my codex are the part where an entire Black Templar crusade fleet was sacrificed to take the shields on a Necron flagship down. Presumably that flagship wasn't a Cairn, since Cairns don't have sheilds.

Necron ships don't have shields. Their stealth puts even Eldar Holo-fields to shame, and together with the regenerative properties of living metal, they don't need them.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Bloomshadow wrote:
But that is an entire segmentum. I kinda meant the fleet stationed to exclusively protect the solar system

Segmentum Solar is smaller than other Segmentums. Its basically only the immediate area around Terra.


Big is really the only word that can be properly used.

If by "Immediate area around Terra" you mean thousands of lightyears, encompassing tens/hundreds of thousands(millions?) of densely populated worlds, you would be correct.

As others have pointed out, Battlefleet Solar is large. What hasn't been stated is that space itself is much much larger. Once you realize that, then you'll understand that an invader can penetrate Sol space but they have a very limited amount of time to do anything.

The only way a large invasion fleet could successful is by bringing in enough numbers to overwhelm the defenses. Or, by using Horus' method of hitting hard and very fast in hopes of breaking through a point in the outer defenses quickly enough and letting inertia carry them onward. Of course, the local planetary defenses are quite considerable as well, which would destroy anything that did get through.

Now, a small and very fast ship with great stealth properties just might get through. With the right entry point that ship might even get close to Earth/Mars. However, again, the planetary defenses of both worlds would kill it quickly.

This is essentially what happened with the Necrons. They didn't try to overwhelm the solar defenders, just slip past them. It was a suicide mission with a handful of small, fast and stealthy ships whose purpose was only to land and *do something* but they never had a hope of leaving.

clively wrote:
This is essentially what happened with the Necrons. They didn't try to overwhelm the solar defenders, just slip past them. It was a suicide mission with a handful of small, fast and stealthy ships whose purpose was only to land and *do something* but they never had a hope of leaving.

They probably wanted to scout out if the dragon was indeed on mars

or take the general-fabricator out for a game of golf.

Anyway, I think I have my answer for the original question now

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
first they need centuries to get to Sol System

Even if the rest is completely true, this is definately not stated anywhere in the Codex.

Admiral Valerian wrote:Necron ships don't have shields. Their stealth puts even Eldar Holo-fields to shame, and together with the regenerative properties of living metal, they don't need them.

See, that's the weird part of the ambush Helbrecht led against Imotekh. It does state that a broadside from the Helbrecht's flagship took down the shields of Imotekh's ship. Whether that foretells a change in Necron design, was a mistake by Ward or he meant some sort of shield to prevent boarding is unknown.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Can we get some page references for the "nerf" to Necron spaceships please? Because the only references I can find in my codex are the part where an entire Black Templar crusade fleet was sacrificed to take the shields on a Necron flagship down. Presumably that flagship wasn't a Cairn, since Cairns don't have sheilds.

Here is some Necrons fleet and ship info. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron_Fleet#.UUOQJqXsu05 I don't know if it's exactly what you are looking for but it is Necrons in space.